translation idolatry vs worshiping Christ

[stranger]

Mujahid Abdullah wrote:

this discussion has actually given me insight into why non muslims have such a hard time comprehending Islamic terrorism, and why they fear it so much. Christian/western understanding of religion and interpretation of religion is very loose. This is evident in the various interpretatins I get on different Issues by christians. In your minds, anyone can interpret the Quran and hadeeth to justify terrorism, while as a Muslim I, and most Muslims around the world, find these interpretations as perposterous. We also have a strict law against those who are qualified to interpret Quran and hadeeth. So when a laymen with no Islamic education like Bin Laden issues fatwas, most Muslims dismiss them right away. This strict system comforts me, I know the law, I know who to trust on matters of religion, I can look at the credentials of a Muslim and know wheather he is a trustworthy scholar or not. I know who can be considered a scholar and who is just a knucklehead with an opinion.
Christianity did not offer that for me, it was a crap shoot finding a qualified interpreter of scripture. And though you guys have done agreat job showing to me why you guys still beleive in christianity, I can not rectify my quarels with it.

Hi Mujahid,

The problem isn't Bin Laden (although he has broader support then you make out) or individual muslims interpreting the Quran for themselves - it's the 'clerics,teachers --Imams'. Granted there are radicals and extremists teachers in every religion but in Australia the problem has been the moderate Imams- their comments and attitudes wind the clock back to 9/11. And this is in the public forum where the press make matters worse. It raises the question: What goes on behind closed doors that isn't made public?

Another even more serious problem is when Muslims failure to assimilate into a western culture like Australia. This is a breeding ground of all manner of problems for disinfranchised, marginalised, Muslim youth. Importing immans from places like Egypt to teach at senior levels, who can bearly speak English nor have little knowledge of culture in Australia, is a receipe for disaster. So the strict system of who is qualified to teach, is basically flawed. I've even come to the conclusion:

that out of moderates extremists will arise without outside influence.

This goes beyond home grown terrorism!

About the quality of Christian literature - its a market place. There are treasures amongst the cheaper merchandise. Your opinions will be influence by what you read - if you want to know about Hinduism - read what Hindus say about themselves, if you want to know about Islam read their literature - and if you want to know about Christians read what Christians have to say. It would be a waste of time reading third party written anti- Christian, Islamic or Hindu literature.

take care

This is a huge problem (mostly in Europe, but I guess Australia too), and the Muslim world is aware of it. Now I have a question, you say assimilation, but if you look at Korean or other Asian imigrant communities, you see, they do not assimilate well either, their kids do, but the parents ussually hold on to their previous culture.

I can only speak for American immigrants, and they all seem to assimilate just fine, I dont know one Arab or Paki or Indian who does not speak English well, or ware western clothes often.

Now here is something which you might not be aware of, and it might frighten you. The brand of Islam which supports terrorism as we know it today is called Salafi/wahabi. Now in most Muslim countries, this brand of Islam is scarce, it is shunned and oppressed. But here in America, it flourishes because there are no authorities to stamp it out. So a large number of Muslims both American and foreign are being taught many of this groups tennets, which differ from the majority of orthodox Islam on many levels, including Jihad. Ironicly Sadaam husein completly eradicated this brand of Islam in Iraq, but when the US invaded and disbanded the Iraqi military (which knew of these people and their views) the Jihadi salafis flooded in and now control much of the religios docterine there. it is important that you understand the various groups within Islam in order to understand Islam today. these kids in America and Australia are kids, they no nothing except what an Imam tells them, and if that Imam is salafi, they will take his word as truth. So salafism/Wahabism is true threat today both to the west and to Islam.

Hi,

I would see 'salafism/Wahabism' as one threat based on your discription. In Australia the small Islamic minority doesn't not have the numbers that are found in countries of Europe like to England, France, Holland or Germany. What is happening in Europe is being watched closely by countries like Australia where the problems are much smaller and localised.

Should move this discussion to 'Christianity and other religions' to its own separate thread.

 

[francisdesales]

I wasnt sure if you were catholic or not FD, but yes I agree the mysticalmaspects of our two religions are quite simalar. But I dont think that is because Islam borrowed or learned it from catholics/christians, I think it is a natural part of humanity.

Now I find christians trying extra hard to say we Muslims do not worship the God of Abraham. While Muslims openly say our three religions worship the same God.

Some Christians say that, but this is a misunderstanding of Islam by them...

Here is what the Catechism says:

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.
Note, Catholics believe that Muslims worship the same God. Now, of course, we disagree on God's attributes of Tri-Person Being, but we do pray to Him, the One True Creator of the Universe...

Now there is a distinction made with worship of Jesus(AS), which intrinsic to christianity, and most likely the source of christians kicking us out of the monotheistic club. I also think it is way for some Christians to further discredit Islam, which is sad. Before I was Muslim, I heard the sun/moon god argument, and dismissed it when I asked Muslims who they worshipped.

I don't know what Arabs worshiped before Mohemmed began his teachings, no doubt, there was some Persian paganism involved, but it seems quite obvious that Mohemmed taught monotheism based upon the Jewish model.

This leads me back to our common mystical bond. Since Muslims and Christians worship the same God, our mystical/spiritual developement has been guided by this God, leading us both to the same ends.

We believe God has revealed Himself as a Triune God, and our idea of God begins from that point. Thus, the background of our worship is a bit different - the Worship of God through Christ, a visible man who is the perfect image of the Father. We believe this gives men a further knowledge of God, this revelation of Self, that enables us to come into further contact with Him than without this mindset. An understanding of a Triune God enables us better to understand God as a God of Love who deeply desires to share of Himself with us - even to the point of becoming one of us and suffering with our lot in life. That God became man is an incredible path to the mystery of God in contemplative thought that is just not there in Judaism or Islam. We worship the same God, but God has revealed Himself to man for a reason - so that we come to the knowledge of the truth. Islam's knowledge of God is inferior, albeit it is directed towards the true God.

Regards