Ufology as a Growing Religion

[AKJVReader]

I agree with the standpoint that we are the center of attention but we are definitely not the actual "center" of the Universe we're a few trillion miles away from that.

How would you know that?

Yes and according to Einsteins Theory of Relativity nothing can go faster than light. It would take 40,000 light years (Going at the speed of light for 40,000 years) to cross the Milky Way Galaxy. I think it was about 20,000 for us to actually get out of the Milky Way Galaxy.

It would be impossible for the aliens to fly here from a star. Amen. The "aliens" come from another dimension. They can appear and disappear.

 

[EricTheBaptist]

How would you know that?

Well according to scientists we're about 11-12 billion years old. The Big Bang happened 14 billion years so we've been moving away from the "center" for 11-12 billion years.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Well according to scientists we're about 11-12 billion years old. The Big Bang happened 14 billion years so we've been moving away from the "center" for 11-12 billion years.

One of the things that gets me is the idea of a 10,000 year old creation versus the 12 billion year old creation.

God is infinite, His ways are "not my ways" (that is His warning that I/we really don't know what He's up to!)

Now, think about it - I can almost wrap my mind around a 6,000 or 10,000 year old time span. But this is GOD'S handiwork! Doesn't it seem odd that a mortal human could "figure out" God's creation like that? Even SCIENTISTS are CONSTANTLY updating or even changing, totally, their theories about the universe.

Now, 12 billion years - how do I wrap my head around THAT? That is so far out of my intellectual grasp that all I can do is speak in generalities.

God owes me no explanation, and I don't expect one. But don't be surprised if I keep reading scientific articles and TRYING to learn more and more about science in general!

 

[EricTheBaptist]

One of the things that gets me is the idea of a 10,000 year old creation versus the 12 billion year old creation.

God is infinite, His ways are "not my ways" (that is His warning that I/we really don't know what He's up to!)

Now, think about it - I can almost wrap my mind around a 6,000 or 10,000 year old time span. But this is GOD'S handiwork! Doesn't it seem odd that a mortal human could "figure out" God's creation like that? Even SCIENTISTS are CONSTANTLY updating or even changing, totally, their theories about the universe.

Now, 12 billion years - how do I wrap my head around THAT? That is so far out of my intellectual grasp that all I can do is speak in generalities.

God owes me no explanation, and I don't expect one. But don't be surprised if I keep reading scientific articles and TRYING to learn more and more about science in general!

I do not know how old the Earth is. I accept the view of a billions of year old galaxy and universe but the Earth I have no idea of. The idea of a 6,000-10,000 year old Earth is a relatively new theory that Theologians have come up with.

 

[AKJVReader]

I do not know how old the Earth is. I accept the view of a billions of year old galaxy and universe but the Earth I have no idea of.

Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

So some assume the earth was created by God on the first day.

But look at verse 16 as to when the billions of stars were created on the fourth day AFTER the creation of the earth. Which means that we cant have a billion year galaxy and universe with stars.

 

[jasoncran]

Well according to scientists we're about 11-12 billion years old. The Big Bang happened 14 billion years so we've been moving away from the "center" for 11-12 billion years.

uh, the idea of the universe being that old is quite problematic. our sun cant be that older then the say 3 billion.

heres why.

1: Solar collapse. Stellar evolution is keyed to the theory that stars are fueled by hydrogen explosions (nuclear fusion). It is thought that hydrogen is converted to helium, releasing some of the energy in the nucleus. The amount of mass / energy that it would have to lose daily amounts to four million tons a second.
But the problem here is that, along with heat and light, the fusion process should produce a multitude of sub-atomic particles called neutrinos. If the stars were fueled by hydrogen explosions, each square inch of earth's surface would be hit by a trillion neutrinos each second, day and night! Scientists have neutrino detectors in place and regularly measure neutrinos coming in from space. But relatively few arrive. This fact alone disproves the hydrogen theory of solar energy. What then causes the stars to shine? The main alternative explanation to fusion is called "solar collapse." The scientific basis for this was worked out a century ago by two brilliant scientists: Hermonn von Helmholtz (1821-1894) and Lord Kelvin (1824-1907).
If each star is slowly contracted, great amounts of energy would be released all the time. But there is a reason why scientists dare not accept solar collapse as the cause of sun and star shine; it would mean the universe is much younger than theorized. It would also mean that the earth is much younger! The long-ago framework of modern evolutionary theory requires hydrogen explosions as the fuel instead of solar collapse. Nuclear fusion will give billions of years for a star's life, solar collapse only a few million years.
A change in the radius of our sun of about 80 feet [24m] a year is all that would be necessary to produce our sun's actual energy release. In addition, if hydrogen were the solar fuel, then we should be receiving a very large quantity of neutrinos, but careful measurements reveal that they are arriving much more sparsely. Without hydrogen explosions (nuclear fusion) as the cause of solar energy and light, the entire theory of the Big Bang is undercut.
If the rate of solar-collapse shrinkage, discussed above, were only one fifth that of the above quoted measurement, the sun would have been "twice its present size a million years ago." So our sun must be very young indeed! Twenty million years ago, the sun would have been so large it would have engulfed the earth within its enormous sphere. As little as 50,000 years ago, it would have been too large for life to exist on our planet. Couple this with the fact that the recent studies in the early 1980s determined that the sun's size could not be much larger, nor our distance from the surface be much closer, without solar winds destroying life on earth! ]

THE AGE OF THE UNIVERSE Collapse


and here with references to the studies and or peer reviewed

The Solar FAQ: Solar Neutrinos and Other Solar Oddities

 

[AKJVReader]

"Adam's sin caused all of creation to be affected by the Curse, so why would a race of beings, not of Adam's sinful seed, have their part of creation affected by the Curse, and then be part of the restoration brought about by Christ, the last Adam? All of this would seem exceedingly strange."

Ken Ham - The Lie: Evolution

 

[Pizzaguy]

So some assume the earth was created by God on the first day.

But look at verse 16 as to when the billions of stars were created on the fourth day AFTER the creation of the earth. Which means that we cant have a billion year galaxy and universe with stars.

I'm not so sure that those verses are in chronological order. I think they are in either psychological order or perhaps reverse climactic order. (See below) That is to say, God was essentially telling us that HE made the universe, but was not giving any technical instruction (He was not telling us 'how' or 'why', just that "I did it".) I don't think He considers it all that important.

I think some simple math might back up my assertion:

I just took Genesis 1:1-19 and pasted it into "Word". I then deleted all the verse numbers. Why did I do this? To get a word count.

480 words. Yes, that's what I found. 480 words for God to describe to people to all generations the details of the creation of, well, ALL of creation, up to forming of life on the planet's surface!

Consider this: The entire Bile contains something over 750,000 words. That means that God thought that the description of His creating the Sun, Moon, Stars and all of the universe warranted less than 7 hundredths of a percent (.07% or .0007) of His word to us.

See, I don't think He really was concerned with explaining all of this to us. But, being of a scientifically curious mind, I want to know. I dont' think we'll ever solve this one, not this side of eternity. And I admit that, possibly, your view is right and mine is wrong. I just don't think so, I really don't. God owes me no explanations. But I DO plan on continuing to find my own!




From Grammer.com:
Climactic Order (Order of Importance)

A third common principle of organization is climactic order or order of importance. In this pattern, items are arranged from least important to most important. (THis is to say that He mentioned the forming of the earth first, cause the earth is center to our lives this side of heaven. HOW and WHY would He have made the earth before the sun? I don't believe that He did. It just does not seem logical.)

A variation of climactic order is called psychological order. This pattern or organization grows from our learning that readers or listeners usually give most attention to what comes at the beginning and the end, and least attention to what is in the middle. In this pattern, then, you decide what is most important and put it at the beginning or the end; next you choose what is second most important and put it at the end or the beginning (whichever remains); the less important or powerful items are then arranged in the middle. If the order of importance followed 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, with 5 being most important, psychological order might follow the order 4, 3, 1, 2, 5.

 

[AKJVReader]

480 words. Yes, that's what I found. 480 words for God to describe to people to all generations the details of the creation of, well, ALL of creation, up to forming of life on the planet's surface!

Consider this: The entire Bible contains something over 750,000 words. That means that God thought that the description of His creating the Sun, Moon, Stars and all of the universe warranted less than 7 hundredths of a percent (.07% or .0007) of His word to us.

Yet every word of the Bible is important.

Matthew 5:
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Proverbs 30:
5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

I'm not so sure that those verses are in chronological order. I think they are in either psychological order or perhaps reverse climactic order. That is to say, God was essentially telling us that HE made the universe, but was not giving any technical instruction (He was not telling us 'how' or 'why', just that "I did it".) I don't think He considers it all that important.

The main focus or climax of the Bible is the Lord Jesus dying on the cross for the sins of the world so that anyone who believes on the Lord Jesus will be saved.

I think that Moses got Genesis right. The verses are in the right order. Where else in the Bible are verses supposed to be in psychological or climactic order? I cant find any. None of us humans on earth were alive at the time of Creation so it is best to trust what God says happened and in the order that is presented to us.

Anyway, i think if aliens (demons) did appear on earth, they would vehemently attack the Bible, saying that they created us rather than the Genesis account. Well they already do this in a indirect way by appearing in UFO's to try to deceive people, especially those that dont understand the Bible.

 

[EricTheBaptist]

I do need to apologize for my extreme arrogance on this 'Big Bang' stuff. After reading my pastors essay on Big Bang and Evolution I've come to realize it's bull crap.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

[FONT=Arial, Bold, sans-serif]It‘s so important to discuss or oppose this particular belief, because ET belief is quickly becoming the world‘s most scientifically acceptable false religion and a major stumbling block to people considering Christianity. And although some of its adherents are serious followers, the reality is, that polls show that belief in UFOs is mainstream and held by the average Joe‘ in the street. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]For example, a CNN/[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Italic, sans-serif]Time Magazine [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]poll in [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Bold, sans-serif]1997[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], found, among other things that;[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Bold, sans-serif]80% believe that the government is hiding the existence of extraterrestrial life forms[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Bold, sans-serif]64% believe aliens have contacted humans[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Bold, sans-serif]50% believe that aliens have abducted humans[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Bold, sans-serif]75% believe that a UFO crashed near Roswell[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So, in one sense, the majority of the population believes that UFOs are real physical craft piloted by beings from other planets. Does that make them adherents in the religious sense? [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Bold, sans-serif]The purpose of this article is to sound a clarion call that such beliefs make people vulnerable to further and possibly deeper deception. This is why it is important to place all of our thinking on the Bible, and not be misled into thinking that because the universe is so big, that there must be extraterrestrial life on other planets. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Many are worried that real ET visitations might falsify the Bible if we are wrong—which is exactly what Satan would want you to think.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Unlike Buddhism, Islam, etc, extraterrestrial belief has a veneer of scientific credibility. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Bold, sans-serif]Arguably, the world‘s most famous scientist, physicist [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Bold, sans-serif]Stephen Hawking, has even stated that he believes aliens probably exist. And the world‘s most famous atheistic evolutionist, Richard Dawkins, as anti-theistic as he is, has no problem with aliens theoretically seeding life on earth, provided that somewhere down the chain of creators, there‘s a life form that arose via evolution. Antichristian scientist, and co-discoverer of the DNA molecule, Sir Francis Crick, similarly proposed that life came via panspermia (life seeded by aliens) as a possible explanation for the mind-boggling complexity of the coded information on DNA[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT]




[FONT=Arial, Bold, sans-serif]Doctrine of UFOlogical religion:[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1. There is also a soteriological (or doctrine of salvation) aspect to UFO religion. Our space brothers‘ are said to be older and more advanced both [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Bold, sans-serif]ethically [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]and technologically. This is a bizarre claim given the brutal and sordid nature of some alleged abduction encounters. Often, New Age‘ religion is strongly intertwined with UFO beliefs. The ETs are going to save us from global warming, etc, and show us how to live in harmony with our planet. Earth as an organism figures in as well, a theme popularized by the film [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Italic, sans-serif]Avatar[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Bold, sans-serif]Part of salvation‘ in the ET religion often involves evolving to the level of our ET benefactors. Its origins are found in the satanic you will be like God‘ deception that emanates from the Garden of Eden. If the ET deception has the same source, we shouldn‘t be surprised at the parallels.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Sometimes ETs also act as judges. Raelianism claims that there is a panel of judges who will get to decide who gets to be cloned again to eternal life, and who doesn‘t. This is based on works, like all other false religions such as Islam, Mormonism, etc. But in the absence of an omniscient God, who decides what‘s good enough? And what authority do mere men have to decide whether someone[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]is good enough—are they themselves good enough‘ and by whose standard? This problem is common with the redemption aspect of most false religions.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2. There is also an eschatological aspect. In some beliefs, the ETs will come and take away all the people who refuse to let Mother Earth‘ evolve, either destroying them or taking them to someplace else. For instance, New Age, ET channeller, Barbara Marciniak writes in her book [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Italic, sans-serif]Bringers of the Dawn: Teachings from the Pleiadians[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]:[/FONT]


―[FONT=Arial, Bold, sans-serif]The people who leave the planet during the time of Earth changes do not fit in here any longer, and they are stopping the harmony of Earth. When the time comes that perhaps 20 million people leave the planet at one time there will be a tremendous shift in consciousness for those who are remaining[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].‖[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This is a not-so-subtle take on the pre-millennial view, in which Christians are taken away by Christ, before the time known as the Great Tribulation. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Bold, sans-serif]There are also views that ET believers will be taken away by spaceships to a planet called Heaven, which in some iterations even features a golden city much like the New Jerusalem[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. Channeller Thelma Terrell, who also goes by the spiritual‘ name Tuella‘, writes:[/FONT]


―[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our rescue ships will be able to come in close enough in the twinkling of an eye to set the lifting beams in operation in a moment. And over the globe where events warrant it, this will be the method of evacuation. Mankind will be lifted … by the beams from our smaller ships. …[/FONT]


― [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Earth changes will be the primary factor in mass evacuation of the planet. There is method and great organization in a detailed plan already near completion for the purpose of removing souls from this planet, in the event of catastrophic events making a rescue necessary. The Great Evacuation will come upon the world very suddenly. The flash of emergency events will be as a lightning that flashes in the sky. So suddenly and quick in its happening that it is over almost before you are aware of its presence.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This is strikingly similar to 1 Corinthians 15:51-52. However, we should not be surprised. The enemy has always been a counterfeiter and we are warned that he masquerades as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). In others, the aliens will herald in the apocalypse. Some types of ET belief have alien/human hybrids as an integral part of end-times scenarios.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]From:[/FONT]​

http://www.contendingfortruth.com/wp-content/uploads/Preparation-of-the-Alien-UFO-Deception-Parts-1-4.pdfhttp://www.contendingfortruth.com/w...tion-of-the-Alien-UFO-Deception-Parts-1-4.pdf

Jesus says that there are only a few that ever find out what the small narrow gate that must be used to enter God's kingdom actuallt is. Your time might be better spent understanding why that is true.

 

[Pizzaguy]

I do need to apologize for my extreme arrogance on this 'Big Bang' stuff. After reading my pastors essay on Big Bang and Evolution I've come to realize it's bull crap.

Care to share what he wrote? ;)

 

[EricTheBaptist]

Care to share what he wrote? ;)

I'll try to give it. It's a 26 page essay on Evolution and the Big Bang so it's A LOT of words. It however is very informative and makes you wonder how people can really believe in this garbage.

 

[JacobBoheme]

not everyone is like that

Just because a person holds open the possibility (or even believes their existence is probable) doesn't necessarily imply that they also buy into all the strange new age channeled space brother messages. Many of the scientists who are open to the idea of aliens would probably be more prone to laugh at such messages, while doing the crazy hand gesture with their finger around their ear, rather than believe they are legitimate.

It's kind of like trees. Just because you believe in the existence of trees doesn't necessarily imply that you also agree with every new age theory regarding them.