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Under Law? Under Grace, or both?

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Ben Avraham

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UNDER LAW? UNDER GRACE? OR BOTH?

You might have raised eyebrows now, or about ready to comment something negative, but wait a minute, to answer this question, which has been a popular theme in Judeo-Christianity, let’s first take a look at the meanings of these words.

“GRACE” something that is not merited, or deserved. Something we get when we shouldn’t get it. “By GRACE we are saved, not of ourselves, nor by our works, so that no man can boast (saying that he or she did this and that in order to receive God’s acceptance). The Hebrew word for “grace” is “Chen” (pronounced with a guttural “h”) if we look at the word using the ancient Paleo-Hebrew, we can see the symbolism of “The fence of life” Life is within the fence. A fence is to keep in precious and valuable things and keep unwanted things out. Yeshua has us within his “fence of love and salvation” just because He loves us.

“LAW” has been misinterpreted for so long. The word “law” comes from the Latin word “Legis” which means “something legal or legalistic.” However, the Hebrew word that is used is “Torah” which means “instruction.’ If we are to interpret the meaning of “Torah” in Paleo-Hebrew we would see; “The first Covenant of the nail revealed.” If this word had been translated correctly into Latin, it would have been; “instructio” or “educatio” and not “legis”

The Apostol Paul many times refers to “not being under the LAW.” He is stating that we are NOT under LEGALISM, or obedience to the commandments of God IN ORDER TO OBTAIN SALVATION!. Salvation (Yeshuah) comes by GRACE, Through “Yeshua” (play on words?) by our faith and faith in the one-time atonement/sacrifice on Calvary’s Cross. However, as members of God’s family, we now should “walk in and follow the “Instructions of God” (The Torah) which consists of His commandments, not for salvation purpose but because we ARE SAVED. The commandments, which are 613, are for our education, welfare, and spiritual maturity. Of course, not all of the 613 are for today, there are many which are not for today because there is no more temple, the Levitical priesthood is no more, we are not in Israel, etc., yet there are many that ARE for today. Which ones? That requires Bible study and that is on ALL OF US, to search the scriptures. The 10 commandants are the basic ones, the others fall under those 10 categories.

Yes, we are also under grace. Adam and Eve were under grace. Grace was in the Garden of Eden (wait, I thought her name was Eve?) LOL. Had not God given Adam and Eve grace, they would have been killed right then and there. Noah would have perished in the flood, had it not been for God’s grace, and we would all be flowers, trees, grass, or fish today.

So, what is the answer? Are we under Law? Or Grace? Or both? WE can say both YES and NO. Yes, we are under grace, NO we are NOT under legalism, and YES, we are guided by God’s instructions in His Word. At least we should be, but that is the decision that every believer has to make for himself or herself. Following HIS WORD is what our lives are all about. Living for HIM now and reap benefits in the World to Come.

Baruch Ha Shem! (Praise the LORD)

Rabbi Ben Avraham

As a small gift to all you readers, I am enclosing a free copy of my eBook; God Tales, for your reading enjoyment, be blessed by the short stories and poems about the faith. Don't expect to read it in one sitting because it has 172 pages. Read at your leisure, maybe you can transfer it to your own PC archives so you'll have it to keep.
 

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UNDER LAW? UNDER GRACE? OR BOTH?

You might have raised eyebrows now, or about ready to comment something negative, but wait a minute, to answer this question, which has been a popular theme in Judeo-Christianity, let’s first take a look at the meanings of these words.

“GRACE” something that is not merited, or deserved. Something we get when we shouldn’t get it. “By GRACE we are saved, not of ourselves, nor by our works, so that no man can boast (saying that he or she did this and that in order to receive God’s acceptance). The Hebrew word for “grace” is “Chen” (pronounced with a guttural “h”) if we look at the word using the ancient Paleo-Hebrew, we can see the symbolism of “The fence of life” Life is within the fence. A fence is to keep in precious and valuable things and keep unwanted things out. Yeshua has us within his “fence of love and salvation” just because He loves us.

“LAW” has been misinterpreted for so long. The word “law” comes from the Latin word “Legis” which means “something legal or legalistic.” However, the Hebrew word that is used is “Torah” which means “instruction.’ If we are to interpret the meaning of “Torah” in Paleo-Hebrew we would see; “The first Covenant of the nail revealed.” If this word had been translated correctly into Latin, it would have been; “instructio” or “educatio” and not “legis”

The Apostol Paul many times refers to “not being under the LAW.” He is stating that we are NOT under LEGALISM, or obedience to the commandments of God IN ORDER TO OBTAIN SALVATION!. Salvation (Yeshuah) comes by GRACE, Through “Yeshua” (play on words?) by our faith and faith in the one-time atonement/sacrifice on Calvary’s Cross. However, as members of God’s family, we now should “walk in and follow the “Instructions of God” (The Torah) which consists of His commandments, not for salvation purpose but because we ARE SAVED. The commandments, which are 613, are for our education, welfare, and spiritual maturity. Of course, not all of the 613 are for today, there are many which are not for today because there is no more temple, the Levitical priesthood is no more, we are not in Israel, etc., yet there are many that ARE for today. Which ones? That requires Bible study and that is on ALL OF US, to search the scriptures. The 10 commandants are the basic ones, the others fall under those 10 categories.

Yes, we are also under grace. Adam and Eve were under grace. Grace was in the Garden of Eden (wait, I thought her name was Eve?) LOL. Had not God given Adam and Eve grace, they would have been killed right then and there. Noah would have perished in the flood, had it not been for God’s grace, and we would all be flowers, trees, grass, or fish today.

So, what is the answer? Are we under Law? Or Grace? Or both? WE can say both YES and NO. Yes, we are under grace, NO we are NOT under legalism, and YES, we are guided by God’s instructions in His Word. At least we should be, but that is the decision that every believer has to make for himself or herself. Following HIS WORD is what our lives are all about. Living for HIM now and reap benefits in the World to Come.

Baruch Ha Shem! (Praise the LORD)

Rabbi Ben Avraham

As a small gift to all you readers, I am enclosing a free copy of my eBook; God Tales, for your reading enjoyment, be blessed by the short stories and poems about the faith. Don't expect to read it in one sitting because it has 172 pages. Read at your leisure, maybe you can transfer it to your own PC archives so you'll have it to keep.
How about if, as a Rabbi, you speak to us to say if the commands of Jesus in His Sermons on the Mount and Plain are to be for Believers today either instructive unto obedience, or are to be merely informative.

Make a Godly and definitive response 25 words or less.
 
UNDER LAW? UNDER GRACE? OR BOTH?

You might have raised eyebrows now, or about ready to comment something negative, but wait a minute, to answer this question, which has been a popular theme in Judeo-Christianity, let’s first take a look at the meanings of these words.

“GRACE” something that is not merited, or deserved. Something we get when we shouldn’t get it. “By GRACE we are saved, not of ourselves, nor by our works, so that no man can boast (saying that he or she did this and that in order to receive God’s acceptance). The Hebrew word for “grace” is “Chen” (pronounced with a guttural “h”) if we look at the word using the ancient Paleo-Hebrew, we can see the symbolism of “The fence of life” Life is within the fence. A fence is to keep in precious and valuable things and keep unwanted things out. Yeshua has us within his “fence of love and salvation” just because He loves us.

“LAW” has been misinterpreted for so long. The word “law” comes from the Latin word “Legis” which means “something legal or legalistic.” However, the Hebrew word that is used is “Torah” which means “instruction.’ If we are to interpret the meaning of “Torah” in Paleo-Hebrew we would see; “The first Covenant of the nail revealed.” If this word had been translated correctly into Latin, it would have been; “instructio” or “educatio” and not “legis”

The Apostol Paul many times refers to “not being under the LAW.” He is stating that we are NOT under LEGALISM, or obedience to the commandments of God IN ORDER TO OBTAIN SALVATION!. Salvation (Yeshuah) comes by GRACE, Through “Yeshua” (play on words?) by our faith and faith in the one-time atonement/sacrifice on Calvary’s Cross. However, as members of God’s family, we now should “walk in and follow the “Instructions of God” (The Torah) which consists of His commandments, not for salvation purpose but because we ARE SAVED. The commandments, which are 613, are for our education, welfare, and spiritual maturity. Of course, not all of the 613 are for today, there are many which are not for today because there is no more temple, the Levitical priesthood is no more, we are not in Israel, etc., yet there are many that ARE for today. Which ones? That requires Bible study and that is on ALL OF US, to search the scriptures. The 10 commandants are the basic ones, the others fall under those 10 categories.

Yes, we are also under grace. Adam and Eve were under grace. Grace was in the Garden of Eden (wait, I thought her name was Eve?) LOL. Had not God given Adam and Eve grace, they would have been killed right then and there. Noah would have perished in the flood, had it not been for God’s grace, and we would all be flowers, trees, grass, or fish today.

So, what is the answer? Are we under Law? Or Grace? Or both? WE can say both YES and NO. Yes, we are under grace, NO we are NOT under legalism, and YES, we are guided by God’s instructions in His Word. At least we should be, but that is the decision that every believer has to make for himself or herself. Following HIS WORD is what our lives are all about. Living for HIM now and reap benefits in the World to Come.

Baruch Ha Shem! (Praise the LORD)

Rabbi Ben Avraham

As a small gift to all you readers, I am enclosing a free copy of my eBook; God Tales, for your reading enjoyment, be blessed by the short stories and poems about the faith. Don't expect to read it in one sitting because it has 172 pages. Read at your leisure, maybe you can transfer it to your own PC archives so you'll have it to keep.

Great discussion topic.


First of all we must define and discern what “law” each scripture is referring to.


The Law, Torah refers to the first five books of the Bible.

The law of Moses, which is most generally misunderstood, refers to the law of the covenant of Sinai, that was added to the Abrahamic covenant, temporarily until the Seed, the Messiah should come.


IOW, the law or instruction from the Lord is eternal.

The law of Moses was temporary and was abolished on the cross.


The Abrahamic Covenant was between the Lord Jesus Christ, and Abraham, before He became flesh.


The Abrahamic Covenant was refreshed and became the New Covenant, in which Gentiles are grated into the Commonwealth of Israel.


And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:17-19


  • What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come


By saying ”till” the Holy Spirit is indicating the law of Moses (not the Torah) was temporary.



JLB
 
UNDER LAW? UNDER GRACE? OR BOTH?

  • Under the law means under obligation to obey the law.
  • Under grace means under obligation to obey grace.


Grace is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.


Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29


Grace teaches us:

  • For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,


For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Titus 2:11-14


It is noteworthy to understand that the Spirit of grace is also the Spirit of truth.





JLB
 
Great discussion topic.


First of all we must define and discern what “law” each scripture is referring to.


The Law, Torah refers to the first five books of the Bible.

The law of Moses, which is most generally misunderstood, refers to the law of the covenant of Sinai, that was added to the Abrahamic covenant, temporarily until the Seed, the Messiah should come.


IOW, the law or instruction from the Lord is eternal.

The law of Moses was temporary and was abolished on the cross.


The Abrahamic Covenant was between the Lord Jesus Christ, and Abraham, before He became flesh.


The Abrahamic Covenant was refreshed and became the New Covenant, in which Gentiles are grated into the Commonwealth of Israel.


And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:17-19


  • What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come


By saying ”till” the Holy Spirit is indicating the law of Moses (not the Torah) was temporary.



JLB
You wrote, "Gentiles are grated into the Commonwealth of Israel." That must be a very painful experience!
 
UNDER LAW? UNDER GRACE? OR BOTH?

You might have raised eyebrows now, or about ready to comment something negative, but wait a minute, to answer this question, which has been a popular theme in Judeo-Christianity, let’s first take a look at the meanings of these words.

“GRACE” something that is not merited, or deserved. Something we get when we shouldn’t get it. “By GRACE we are saved, not of ourselves, nor by our works, so that no man can boast (saying that he or she did this and that in order to receive God’s acceptance). The Hebrew word for “grace” is “Chen” (pronounced with a guttural “h”) if we look at the word using the ancient Paleo-Hebrew, we can see the symbolism of “The fence of life” Life is within the fence. A fence is to keep in precious and valuable things and keep unwanted things out. Yeshua has us within his “fence of love and salvation” just because He loves us.

“LAW” has been misinterpreted for so long. The word “law” comes from the Latin word “Legis” which means “something legal or legalistic.” However, the Hebrew word that is used is “Torah” which means “instruction.’ If we are to interpret the meaning of “Torah” in Paleo-Hebrew we would see; “The first Covenant of the nail revealed.” If this word had been translated correctly into Latin, it would have been; “instructio” or “educatio” and not “legis”

The Apostol Paul many times refers to “not being under the LAW.” He is stating that we are NOT under LEGALISM, or obedience to the commandments of God IN ORDER TO OBTAIN SALVATION!. Salvation (Yeshuah) comes by GRACE, Through “Yeshua” (play on words?) by our faith and faith in the one-time atonement/sacrifice on Calvary’s Cross. However, as members of God’s family, we now should “walk in and follow the “Instructions of God” (The Torah) which consists of His commandments, not for salvation purpose but because we ARE SAVED. The commandments, which are 613, are for our education, welfare, and spiritual maturity. Of course, not all of the 613 are for today, there are many which are not for today because there is no more temple, the Levitical priesthood is no more, we are not in Israel, etc., yet there are many that ARE for today. Which ones? That requires Bible study and that is on ALL OF US, to search the scriptures. The 10 commandants are the basic ones, the others fall under those 10 categories.

Yes, we are also under grace. Adam and Eve were under grace. Grace was in the Garden of Eden (wait, I thought her name was Eve?) LOL. Had not God given Adam and Eve grace, they would have been killed right then and there. Noah would have perished in the flood, had it not been for God’s grace, and we would all be flowers, trees, grass, or fish today.

So, what is the answer? Are we under Law? Or Grace? Or both? WE can say both YES and NO. Yes, we are under grace, NO we are NOT under legalism, and YES, we are guided by God’s instructions in His Word. At least we should be, but that is the decision that every believer has to make for himself or herself. Following HIS WORD is what our lives are all about. Living for HIM now and reap benefits in the World to Come.

Baruch Ha Shem! (Praise the LORD)

Rabbi Ben Avraham

As a small gift to all you readers, I am enclosing a free copy of my eBook; God Tales, for your reading enjoyment, be blessed by the short stories and poems about the faith. Don't expect to read it in one sitting because it has 172 pages. Read at your leisure, maybe you can transfer it to your own PC archives so you'll have it to keep.
I agree with you.

What do you mean by:
The 10 commandments are the basic ones,,,the others fall under those 10 categories?
What categories?
Sorry if I missed something in reading the OP.
 
UNDER LAW? UNDER GRACE? OR BOTH?

You might have raised eyebrows now, or about ready to comment something negative, but wait a minute, to answer this question, which has been a popular theme in Judeo-Christianity, let’s first take a look at the meanings of these words.

“GRACE” something that is not merited, or deserved. Something we get when we shouldn’t get it. “By GRACE we are saved, not of ourselves, nor by our works, so that no man can boast (saying that he or she did this and that in order to receive God’s acceptance). The Hebrew word for “grace” is “Chen” (pronounced with a guttural “h”) if we look at the word using the ancient Paleo-Hebrew, we can see the symbolism of “The fence of life” Life is within the fence. A fence is to keep in precious and valuable things and keep unwanted things out. Yeshua has us within his “fence of love and salvation” just because He loves us.

“LAW” has been misinterpreted for so long. The word “law” comes from the Latin word “Legis” which means “something legal or legalistic.” However, the Hebrew word that is used is “Torah” which means “instruction.’ If we are to interpret the meaning of “Torah” in Paleo-Hebrew we would see; “The first Covenant of the nail revealed.” If this word had been translated correctly into Latin, it would have been; “instructio” or “educatio” and not “legis”

The Apostol Paul many times refers to “not being under the LAW.” He is stating that we are NOT under LEGALISM, or obedience to the commandments of God IN ORDER TO OBTAIN SALVATION!. Salvation (Yeshuah) comes by GRACE, Through “Yeshua” (play on words?) by our faith and faith in the one-time atonement/sacrifice on Calvary’s Cross. However, as members of God’s family, we now should “walk in and follow the “Instructions of God” (The Torah) which consists of His commandments, not for salvation purpose but because we ARE SAVED. The commandments, which are 613, are for our education, welfare, and spiritual maturity. Of course, not all of the 613 are for today, there are many which are not for today because there is no more temple, the Levitical priesthood is no more, we are not in Israel, etc., yet there are many that ARE for today. Which ones? That requires Bible study and that is on ALL OF US, to search the scriptures. The 10 commandants are the basic ones, the others fall under those 10 categories.

Yes, we are also under grace. Adam and Eve were under grace. Grace was in the Garden of Eden (wait, I thought her name was Eve?) LOL. Had not God given Adam and Eve grace, they would have been killed right then and there. Noah would have perished in the flood, had it not been for God’s grace, and we would all be flowers, trees, grass, or fish today.

So, what is the answer? Are we under Law? Or Grace? Or both? WE can say both YES and NO. Yes, we are under grace, NO we are NOT under legalism, and YES, we are guided by God’s instructions in His Word. At least we should be, but that is the decision that every believer has to make for himself or herself. Following HIS WORD is what our lives are all about. Living for HIM now and reap benefits in the World to Come.

Baruch Ha Shem! (Praise the LORD)

Rabbi Ben Avraham

As a small gift to all you readers, I am enclosing a free copy of my eBook; God Tales, for your reading enjoyment, be blessed by the short stories and poems about the faith. Don't expect to read it in one sitting because it has 172 pages. Read at your leisure, maybe you can transfer it to your own PC archives so you'll have it to keep.
well said - thank you
 
I believe the scales of God's grace and His Law are balanced on the cross. He will administer each in an individual's life at His choosing in His way and at His timing as He sees fit. We do not get to choose which or when. He decides that which you are able to receive as He writes His Law on our hearts. Eventually, in eternity, we will be obeying all that He intends.
 
You wrote, "Gentiles are grated into the Commonwealth of Israel." That must be a very painful experience!

It may be for a literal wild olive branch being grafted into a natural olive tree.



JLB
 
To all those who think that all the laws have been fulfilled in Christ you are very wrong as below are the laws that are written upon our heart and can only be fulfilled when Christ returns and makes an end to sin by throwing it into the lake of fire with that of the beast and the false prophets. The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices. Someone please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws, because in Matthew 22:35-40 and Matthew 5:17, 18 Jesus does not say that he has already fulfilled all of them, but that love was the greatest of them all.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.

We need to present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow the light of Christ shine in us and through us. This is a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

Morality in God is His greatest commandment of love as we treat others as we want others to treat us. God is love and wants us to love and treat others as He loves and treats us.

Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


 
Old Mosaic Covenant...............................New Spiritual Covenant

OLD Covenant... II Cor. 3:14.....................NEW Covenant... II Cor. 3:6
FIRST Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 9:1...............SECOND Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 10:1-9
Came by Moses... John 1:17.....................Came by Christ... Heb. 8:6, 9:15
Law of God in STONE... II Cor.3:3.............Law of God in HEART... Heb. 10:16
Law of Moses... Acts 13:38-39..................Law of CHRIST... Gal. 6:2
Law of the flesh... Rom. 7:5-6...................Law of the SPIRIT... Rom. 8:2
NOT of faith... Gal. 3:2.............................Law of FAITH... Rom. 3:27
Yoke of BONDAGE... Gal. 5:1.................. Law of LIBERTY... James 1:25
Law of SIN... Rom. 7:5-6...........................Law of RIGHTEOUSNESS... Rom. 9:30-31
Law of DEATH... II Cor. 3:7.......................Law of LIFE... Gal. 3:11, 6:8
Christ removes OLD... Heb. 10:9...............Christ enacted the NEW... Heb.10:9
A SHADOW... Col. 2:14-17.......................The REALITY... Heb. 10:1-18
FULFILLED... Matt. 5:17-18......................NOW IN FORCE... Heb. 8:6, 10:9
Priesthood CHANGED... Heb. 7:12...........UNCHANGEABLE Priesthood... Heb. 7:24
MANY sacrifices... Heb. 9:12-13...............ONE sacrifice for sin... Heb. 10:12
IMPERFECT... Heb. 7:19..........................PERFECT... Heb. 7:19
Blood of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:19.................Blood of CHRIST... Matt. 26:28
Circumcision... Ex. 12:48.........................Uncircumcision... Rom. 4:9-12
WORKS of law... Gal. 3:10.......................NOT of works but GRACE... Eph. 2:8
REMEMBERS sins... Heb. 10:3.................FORGETS sins... Heb. 10:17
YEARLY atonement... Heb. 10:3...............PERMANENT atonement... Heb. 10:4
SINFUL priests... Heb. 5:3........................SINLESS priest... Heb. 7:26
AARONIC priesthood... Heb. 7:11.............MELCHISEDEC priest... Heb. 5:5-10
MAN MADE tabernacle... Heb. 8:5............HEAVENLY tabernacle... Heb. 8:2, 11
Out of LEVI... Heb. 7:11...........................Out of JUDAH... Heb. 7:14
WEAK, UNPROFITABLE... Heb. 7:18........POWER of ENDLESS LIFE... Heb. 7:16
NO inheritance... Rom. 4:13......................ETERNAL inheritance... Heb. 9:15
Sacrifice of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:13.............Sacrifice of CHRIST... Heb. 9:28
Purified the FLESH... Heb. 8:13................Purged the CONSCIENCE... Heb. 9:14
PRODUCES wrath... Rom. 4:15................SAVES from wrath... Rom. 5:9
Perfected NOTHING... Heb. 7:19..............Perfects BELIEVERS... Heb. 10:14
NO MERCY... Heb. 10:28.........................COMPLETE MERCY... Heb. 8:12
NO justification... Acts 13:39....................BELIEVERS justified... Acts 13:39
BRINGS a curse... Gal. 3:10.....................REDEEMS from curse... Acts 3:13
ABOLISHED... II Cor. 3:13........................CONTINUES IN GLORY... II Cor. 3:11
Brought DEATH... II Cor. 3:7....................Brought RECONCILIATION... II Cor. 5:18
ISRAEL ONLY... Deut. 4:7-8, 5:3..............ALL MANKIND Mark 14:24, II Cor. 5:14-19
 
To all those who think that all the laws have been fulfilled in Christ you are very wrong as below are the laws that are written upon our heart and can only be fulfilled when Christ returns and makes an end to sin by throwing it into the lake of fire with that of the beast and the false prophets. The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices. Someone please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws, because in Matthew 22:35-40 and Matthew 5:17, 18 Jesus does not say that he has already fulfilled all of them, but that love was the greatest of them all.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.

We need to present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow the light of Christ shine in us and through us. This is a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

Morality in God is His greatest commandment of love as we treat others as we want others to treat us. God is love and wants us to love and treat others as He loves and treats us.

Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Are you contradicting yourself? You wrote, "To all those who think that all the laws have been fulfilled in Christ you are very wrong as below are the laws that are written upon our heart and can only be fulfilled when Christ returns and makes an end to sin by throwing it into the lake of fire with that of the beast and the false prophets. The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices.

Matthew 22:37-40 says, " Jesus said to him, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. The second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the law and the prophets depend on these two commandments." (NET 2.1)

It seems to me that if we love the Lord and our neighbor we have fulfilled the entire OT law.
 
Are you contradicting yourself? You wrote, "To all those who think that all the laws have been fulfilled in Christ you are very wrong as below are the laws that are written upon our heart and can only be fulfilled when Christ returns and makes an end to sin by throwing it into the lake of fire with that of the beast and the false prophets. The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices.

Matthew 22:37-40 says, " Jesus said to him, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. The second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the law and the prophets depend on these two commandments." (NET 2.1)

It seems to me that if we love the Lord and our neighbor we have fulfilled the entire OT law.
Not contradicting, but showing the greatest commandment of love that all are to keep within the moral laws that I listed that we keep within the 613 laws. It's only the Temple laws of sacrifice that Jesus has fulfilled. The moral laws I listed are to be kept until the coming of the Lord as we walk in obedience of love.
 
Not contradicting, but showing the greatest commandment of love that all are to keep within the moral laws that I listed that we keep within the 613 laws. It's only the Temple laws of sacrifice that Jesus has fulfilled. The moral laws I listed are to be kept until the coming of the Lord as we walk in obedience of love.
You're either guided by the Spirit (internally) or by the law (externally). You can't be guided by both. God has given believers the Holy Spirit, thereby eliminating the law as a guide to Godly thoughts and behavior.
 
You're either guided by the Spirit (internally) or by the law (externally). You can't be guided by both. God has given believers the Holy Spirit, thereby eliminating the law as a guide to Godly thoughts and behavior.

The Holy Spirit will guide us internally according to the laws and commandments written on our heart.

The Spirit and the word are in harmony.

The Spirit will lead us in harmony with the word.


However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. John 16:13-15


  • He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.



Everything written n the New Testament is from Christ, inspired by the Holy Spirit through the Apostles.



Now what I will say is this, the Holy Spirit does not lead us to keep the law of Moses, which included the sacrificing of animals, ceremonial washings, observing special days of the year, wearing special clothing, Sabbath laws, not eating certain foods....


  • But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18


The law of Moses was abolished in His flesh on the cross.


Now we are under grace, and are obligated to obey the Spirit of grace, who teaches us and leads us and empowers us to obey Jesus Christ; to obey the law of Christ.


To obey the truth.





JLB
 
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You're either guided by the Spirit (internally) or by the law (externally). You can't be guided by both. God has given believers the Holy Spirit, thereby eliminating the law as a guide to Godly thoughts and behavior.
Christ came to fulfill the law, which He will fulfill all at His coming. The only laws He has fulfilled so far is that of the Temple laws and sacrifices. We, Jew and Gentile, are still under the moral laws that are summed up in the greatest commandment of love in how we treat one another.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
 
The Holy Spirit will guide us internally according to the laws and commandments written on our heart.

The Spirit and the word are in harmony.

The Spirit will lead us in harmony with the word.


However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. John 16:13-15


  • He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.



Everything written n the New Testament is from Christ, inspired by the Holy Spirit through the Apostles.



Now what I will say is this, the Holy Spirit does not lead us to keep the law of Moses, with included sacrificing of animals, ceremonial washings, observing special days of the year, wearing special clothing, not eating certain foods....


  • But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18


The law od Moses was abolished in His flesh on the cross.


Now we are under grace, and are obligated to obey the Spirit of grace, who teaches us and leads us and empowers us to obey Jesus Christ; to obey the law of Christ.


To obey the truth.





JLB

Great post! Thanks!
 
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Christ came to fulfill the law, which He will fulfill all at His coming. The only laws He has fulfilled so far is that of the Temple laws and sacrifices. We, Jew and Gentile, are still under the moral laws that are summed up in the greatest commandment of love in how we treat one another.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

It is always important to look at what is said in context. Jesus was not talking to Christians -- there were none at the time. You say "We, Jew and Gentile, are still under the moral laws". Paul wrote, "But now apart from the law the righteousness of God (although it is attested by the law and the prophets) has been disclosed—namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. But they are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus... For we consider that a person is declared righteous by faith apart from the works of the law." Romans 3:21-24...28

Romans 4:13-15, "For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would inherit the world was not fulfilled through the law, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if they become heirs by the law, faith is empty and the promise is nullified. For the law brings wrath, because where there is no law there is no transgression either.

Romans 7:4 says it most clearly IMHO: " So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God."

The law and righteousness through faith in Christ are mutually exclusive. There is nothing about fulfilling the requirements of the law partially, This is in direct contrast to what you said... "The only laws He has fulfilled so far is that of the Temple laws and sacrifices. We, Jew and Gentile, are still under the moral laws that are summed up in the greatest commandment of love in how we treat one another.

I have a choice to believe either you or the Apostle Paul. In my mind, there is no choice.
 
It is always important to look at what is said in context. Jesus was not talking to Christians -- there were none at the time. You say "We, Jew and Gentile, are still under the moral laws". Paul wrote, "But now apart from the law the righteousness of God (although it is attested by the law and the prophets) has been disclosed—namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. But they are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus... For we consider that a person is declared righteous by faith apart from the works of the law." Romans 3:21-24...28

Romans 4:13-15, "For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would inherit the world was not fulfilled through the law, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if they become heirs by the law, faith is empty and the promise is nullified. For the law brings wrath, because where there is no law there is no transgression either.

Romans 7:4 says it most clearly IMHO: " So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God."

The law and righteousness through faith in Christ are mutually exclusive. There is nothing about fulfilling the requirements of the law partially, This is in direct contrast to what you said... "The only laws He has fulfilled so far is that of the Temple laws and sacrifices. We, Jew and Gentile, are still under the moral laws that are summed up in the greatest commandment of love in how we treat one another.

I have a choice to believe either you or the Apostle Paul. In my mind, there is no choice.
I'm not talking about the works of the law that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. I'm talking about the greatest of the law/commandments being love that comes first and foremost that we keep as being our obedience to the moral laws as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.
 
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