Understanding Salvation.

[Watchman 2]

The aspect of understanding Salvation I'd like to start with is with a question.

Does salvation, ( defined as having received the Spirit of Christ) happen in one moment of time ( believe and recieve ) , or is it a process?

Without getting into the OSAS doctrine, what is your understanding? Moment of time, or s process?

 

[Watchman 2]

The aspect of understanding Salvation I'd like to start with is with a question.

Does salvation, ( defined as having received the Spirit of Christ) happen in one moment of time ( believe and recieve ) , or is it a process?

Without getting into the OSAS doctrine, what is your understanding? Moment of time, or s process?

I realize this question has an obvious answer to 99.9% of the called out ones alive today. So here would be the second question.

Are there specific things that must happen to receive the Spirit of Christ? And do those "specific things" have to happen in a correct and specific order?

 

[JLB]

Does salvation, ( defined as having received the Spirit of Christ) happen in one moment of time ( believe and recieve ) , or is it a process?

There is being born again, regenerated, or saved by faith, when we believe the Gospel, which as you know means obey the Gospel.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10



Then there is receiving the salvation of your soul, as an end result of our faith on the Day of Judgement,


receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9



JLB

 

[Watchman 2]

There is being born again, regenerated, or saved by faith, when we believe the Gospel, which as you know means obey the Gospel.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10



Then there is receiving the salvation of your soul, as an end result of our faith on the Day of Judgement,


receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9



JLB

When do you receive the Spirit of Christ in your understanding?

 

[JLB]

When do you receive the Spirit of Christ in your understanding?

When you believe the Gospel.

At this point the Spirit baptizes you into Christ, whereby you are joined to Him and are one spirit with Him.

IOW, you are “in Christ”.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17


But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Romans 8:9-10

JLB

 

[Watchman 2]

When you believe the Gospel.

At this point the Spirit baptizes you into Christ, whereby you are joined to Him and are one spirit with Him.

IOW, you are “in Christ”.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17


But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Romans 8:9-10

JLB

Okay, remember those " specific things that must happen" in the salvation journey, and happen in the correct order?
The parable of the sower is one of them! Are you standing on the understanding, that 3 out of the 4 soils loose the Spirit of Christ? Since in your understanding the parable of the sower must happen after you " believe and recieve"!

 

[JohnDB]

Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.

 

[Watchman 2]

Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.

I guess I should have specified, " as per the new covenant."

 

[LovethroughDove]

Are there specific things that must happen to receive the Spirit of Christ? And do those "specific things" have to happen in a correct and specific order?

For me, it was when I was in an argument with my sister about the resurrection and she said Jesus didn't really die, but traveled around Europe. At that very moment I believed 100% that the Bible was true and the resurrection did take place. I received the Holy Spirit that moment.

Before that moment I got to the Jesus is Lord because I was given revelation of what his DNA looks like.

Both of these added up to Romans 10:9

I think they had to go in that order because I don't think I would've believed in the resurrection if I didn't know who is really is.

 

[LovethroughDove]

It looks like JLB posted Romans 10:9 also. ?

 

[Watchman 2]

Okay, remember those " specific things that must happen" in the salvation journey, and happen in the correct order?
The parable of the sower is one of them! Are you standing on the understanding, that 3 out of the 4 soils loose the Spirit of Christ? Since in your understanding the parable of the sower must happen after you " believe and recieve"!

I'll just bump this for those who stand on the " believe and recieve " doctrine of Salvation.

 

[JohnDB]

I guess I should have specified, " as per the new covenant."

I was quoting Paul.

 

[JLB]

Okay, remember those " specific things that must happen" in the salvation journey, and happen in the correct order?
The parable of the sower is one of them! Are you standing on the understanding, that 3 out of the 4 soils loose the Spirit of Christ? Since in your understanding the parable of the sower must happen after you " believe and recieve"!

Yes believe and be saved is the pattern.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

However the word believe in the original carries the meaning of trust and obey.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10


This is why we see the phrase obey the Gospel.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9



JLB

 

[LovethroughDove]

I'll just bump this for those who stand on the " believe and recieve " doctrine of Salvation.

The only people who receive the Holy Spirit are the good soil people. The rest of the people may receive "part" of the Word, but then it does not take root. I accept all of it and it will never leave me.

 

[Truthfrees]

The aspect of understanding Salvation I'd like to start with is with a question.

Does salvation, ( defined as having received the Spirit of Christ) happen in one moment of time ( believe and recieve ) , or is it a process?

Without getting into the OSAS doctrine, what is your understanding? Moment of time, or s process?

from watching myself and others it happens when a person deeply connects with God with their entire being - spirit soul body

if a person connects partially with God they will have struggles

iow a deep encounter with God is the best

without it a person always wonders about their relationship with God

right theology can help a person have a deep connection to God - wrong theology leaves a person wondering if they made it or not - if they are saved or not

i got born again as a kid - i connected to God - i didn't understand theology - i only knew God - for real - He led me to read the bible cover to cover over and over again - the reading of the bible slowly filled my being with an understanding of what happened between God and i -

as a result i promote God first - scripture 2nd - helpful theology third - unhelpful theology never

 

[Watchman 2]

The only people who receive the Holy Spirit are the good soil people. The rest of the people may receive "part" of the Word, but then it does not take root. I accept all of it and it will never leave me.

Unlike the " believe and recieve " understanding, the parable of the sower doesn't happen in a moment of time.
If " believe and recieve" is a true path to recieving the Spirit of Christ ( I do not believe that) those 3 bad soils would have failed with the Spirit of Christ in them.

Is this acceptable to those who stand on " believe and recieve" salvation, which happens in a moment of time?

 

[JohnDB]

Is this acceptable to those who stand on " believe and recieve" salvation, which happens in a moment of time?

God is outside of the constraints of time itself. Time is a box he placed all of creation inside of.
So your question about time when dealing with God is not congruent.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Unlike the " believe and recieve " understanding, the parable of the sower doesn't happen in a moment of time.
If " believe and recieve" is a true path to recieving the Spirit of Christ ( I do not believe that) those 3 bad soils would have failed with the Spirit of Christ in them.

Is this acceptable to those who stand on " believe and recieve" salvation, which happens in a moment of time?

Yes and No

It depends on what they are really believing. The heart needs to be accepting of the truth. We can believe 5 zillion different things. The other soils weren't going to accept the whole truth. Do you get what I'm saying about the exact truth? If we accept that, we receive the Spirit.

 

[Watchman 2]

from watching myself and others it happens when a person deeply connects with God with their entire being - spirit soul body

if a person connects partially with God they will have struggles

iow a deep encounter with God is the best

without it a person always wonders about their relationship with God

right theology can help a person have a deep connection to God - wrong theology leaves a person wondering if they made it or not - if they are saved or not

i got born again as a kid - i connected to God - i didn't understand theology - i only knew God - for real - He led me to read the bible cover to cover over and over again - the reading of the bible slowly filled my being with an understanding of what happened between God and i -

as a result i promote God first - scripture 2nd - helpful theology third - unhelpful theology never

Theology is just one vehicle in which I use to shine light on a particular understanding. I have many vehicles. Most are those secret things that happen between the faither and God. I can't use those vehicles to persuade others.

All my threads have an overall objective. And that's to build a mountain of truths that must be looked at, accepted, and can only be knocked down by a better understanding. Proving true salvation doesn't happen in one moment of time, ," believing and recieving" isn't my reason for sharing this. It's " only" to share the true path of salvation and how it's applied.

In your post, I didn't really see a firm stance on the salvation process specifically. Walk me through exactly how you understand one recieves the Spirit of Christ.

 

[Watchman 2]

Yes and No

It depends on what they are really believing. The heart needs to be accepting of the truth. We can believe 5 zillion different things. The other soils weren't going to accept the whole truth. Do you get what I'm saying about the exact truth? If we accept that, we receive the Spirit.

Show me your step by step understanding of how the salvation journey happens, from the start. That's the only way I will get what your trying to say.