Understanding Salvation.

[Watchman 2]

God is outside of the constraints of time itself. Time is a box he placed all of creation inside of.
So your question about time when dealing with God is not congruent.

Most understand salvation as something that happens in one moment of time, " believe and recieve."

I'm simply saying there are other things that must happen and happen in the correct order. " Believe and receive" doesn't allow that. And that is what I'm showing.

 

[Watchman 2]

God is outside of the constraints of time itself. Time is a box he placed all of creation inside of.
So your question about time when dealing with God is not congruent.

John if you don't mind, submit your understanding of the salvation journey, from the beginning. Then I'll know exactly how to respond to you.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Show me your step by step understanding of how the salvation journey happens, from the start. That's the only way I will get what your trying to say.

I can only tell you how it went for me, but it lines up biblically

I Asked, Seek, Knocked. ASK. Matthew 7:7-8

The Father revealed. Matthew 16:15-16

This happened John 6:29........ Jesus is Lord (Son of God/Son of Man)

That led to my belief in the resurrection. Romans 10:9

The Spirit of Truth came into me. John 14:17 and John 14:20

This is happening currently. John 16:13

 

[JohnDB]

John if you don't mind, submit your understanding of the salvation journey, from the beginning. Then I'll know exactly how to respond to you.

What I'm saying is that I know that I don't know of what God does and "when"... because I'm not able to see it from God's perspective. I don't have the capability to do so either. (Timelessness)

People hear, people believe, people receive.
Might be some more steps and things going on in each step but from my perspective that's all I know.

 

[Watchman 2]

I can only tell you how it went for me, but it lines up biblically

I Asked, Seek, Knocked. ASK. Matthew 7:7-8

The Father revealed. Matthew 16:15-16

This happened John 6:29........ Jesus is Lord (Son of God/Son of Man)

That led to my belief in the resurrection. Romans 10:9

The Spirit of Truth came into me. John 14:17 and John 14:20

This is happening currently. John 16:13

Okay, where in your process would you put the parable of the sower, the testing ground?

 

[LovethroughDove]

Okay, where in your process would you put the parable of the sower, the testing ground?

Let me try this again and answer the question you asked.

The parable of the sower would probably go right before I genuinely asked.

Before that, I was hearing the word and some of it was sticking but until I with my whole heart.........wanted the truth.......it wasn't getting deep down into my soul

 

[Watchman 2]

Let me try this again and answer the question you asked.

The parable of the sower would probably go right before I genuinely asked.

Before that, I was hearing the word and some of it was sticking but until I with my whole heart.........wanted the truth.......it wasn't getting deep down into my soul

Here is the salvation process or journey as I understand it. Tell me if you agree, and if you don't what changes would you make.

1) The call if the Father. Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father calls them.

2) repentance. A change in direction in the mind from our way to His way.

3) Taking the first step of Faithing ( not believing) towards God ,the caller. Which is specifically a genuine personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

4) God accepts the surrendered life as genuine, and moves the surrendered life to be tested in the parable of the sower.

5) only one of the four soils moves forward to the grafting process, where by the continually surrendered life, we can be grafted onto the tree of life " Christ".

6) if the graft takes, which as we know the most important time is at the very beginning of grafting the sprig to the tree. If successful, then and only then will the Spirit of Christ be sealed into the faither or surrendered life.

As you can see, all this is based upon God Himself. God's word, His promises, what Hes said and done is the " occasion " for the surrendered life. But only after we have received the Spirit of Christ at the other end of the process.

Maybe it would be easier for you to ask questions about my understanding?

 

[LovethroughDove]

Here is the salvation process or journey as I understand it. Tell me if you agree, and if you don't what changes would you make.

To be honest, I would change most everything.

This kinda sounds like you're (not you personally) hanging by a thread to stay in the truth.

When the Holy Spirit enters into your understanding..... he does a complete lobotomy of your heart and mind and gives you Jesus.

The surrender of a life is because you are in love with the person and obsessed almost. I love Jesus so much, I do not want to disappoint him or make him look bad whatsoever.

I agree that only one of the soils is part of the tree of life.

 

[Watchman 2]

To be honest, I would change most everything.

This kinda sounds like you're (not you personally) hanging by a thread to stay in the truth.

When the Holy Spirit enters into your understanding..... he does a complete lobotomy of your heart and mind and gives you Jesus.

The surrender of a life is because you are in love with the person and obsessed almost. I love Jesus so much, I do not want to disappoint him or make him look bad whatsoever.

I agree that only one of the soils is part of the tree of life.

Got to be more specific on what you disagree with.

Pick your biggest disagreement, what number, and state the disagreement, why, and replace with a better understanding.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Got to be more specific on what you disagree with.

Pick your biggest disagreement, what number, and state the disagreement, why, and replace with a better understanding.

I'll get more detailed later. It's gonna take me awhile. bye for now

 

[jerry63935]

The aspect of understanding Salvation I'd like to start with is with a question.

Does salvation, ( defined as having received the Spirit of Christ) happen in one moment of time ( believe and recieve ) , or is it a process?

Without getting into the OSAS doctrine, what is your understanding? Moment of time, or s process?

we are saved the very moment we call upon Christ . the process is sanctification 3 steps . 1. the moment we are saved -placed in the Body of Christ-- positional /sanctification 2. progressive w.i.p work in progress grow in grace and knowledge 3 ultimate we made it to heaven mission accomplished

 

[jerry63935]

Most understand salvation as something that happens in one moment of time, " believe and recieve."

I'm simply saying there are other things that must happen and happen in the correct order. " Believe and receive" doesn't allow that. And that is what I'm showing.

romans 10:9-10 if man has followed these steps from a true sincere heart then at that very moment they are saved.. what we need to remember no matter what we believe . it is a spiritual birth . if the Holy Spirit is not in it.then its a miscarriage= no salvation

 

[jerry63935]

Maybe it would be easier for you to ask questions about my understanding?

how about you explain w/o us having to ask .this can clear up confusion

 

[Watchman 2]

Here is the salvation process or journey as I understand it. Tell me if you agree, and if you don't what changes would you make.

1) The call if the Father. Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father calls them.

2) repentance. A change in direction in the mind from our way to His way.

3) Taking the first step of Faithing ( not believing) towards God ,the caller. Which is specifically a genuine personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

4) God accepts the surrendered life as genuine, and moves the surrendered life to be tested in the parable of the sower.

5) only one of the four soils moves forward to the grafting process, where by the continually surrendered life, we can be grafted onto the tree of life " Christ".

6) if the graft takes, which as we know the most important time is at the very beginning of grafting the sprig to the tree. If successful, then and only then will the Spirit of Christ be sealed into the faither or surrendered life.

As you can see, all this is based upon God Himself. God's word, His promises, what Hes said and done is the " occasion " for the surrendered life. But only after we have received the Spirit of Christ at the other end of the process.

Maybe it would be easier for you to ask questions about my understanding?
[/QUOTE


Here it is, my understanding as defined from the Greek texts, not the mistranslated English texts.

 

[Watchman 2]

Here it is , my understanding as defined in the Greek texts, not the mistranslated English texts.

 

[Watchman 2]

how about you explain w/o us having to ask .this can clear up confusion

Here is the salvation process or journey as I understand it. Tell me if you agree, and if you don't what changes would you make.

1) The call if the Father. Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father calls them.

2) repentance. A change in direction in the mind from our way to His way.

3) Taking the first step of Faithing ( not believing) towards God ,the caller. Which is specifically a genuine personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

4) God accepts the surrendered life as genuine, and moves the surrendered life to be tested in the parable of the sower.

5) only one of the four soils moves forward to the grafting process, where by the continually surrendered life, we can be grafted onto the tree of life " Christ".

6) if the graft takes, which as we know the most important time is at the very beginning of grafting the sprig to the tree. If successful, then and only then will the Spirit of Christ be sealed into the faither or surrendered life.

As you can see, all this is based upon God Himself. God's word, His promises, what Hes said and done is the " occasion " for the surrendered life. But only after we have received the Spirit of Christ at the other end of the process.

Maybe it would be easier for you to ask questions about my understanding?

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[Seasoned by Grace]

The aspect of understanding Salvation I'd like to start with is with a question.

Does salvation, ( defined as having received the Spirit of Christ) happen in one moment of time ( believe and recieve ) , or is it a process?

Without getting into the OSAS doctrine, what is your understanding? Moment of time, or s process?

read acts 2:38. we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit at our baptism.
When you get married do you receive your wife or husband a little at a time?
How can they function if there is only a little bit of them?

Think about why the Spirit is given to us.

Jesus said I give Him as a helper.
Scripture says the Spirit leads us into ALL TRUTH.

How can the Spirit function the way God said He would, if He isn't complete?

God bless you my friend and great questions.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[Watchman 2]

read acts 2:38. we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit at our baptism.
When you get married do you receive your wife or husband a little at a time?
How can they function if there is only a little bit of them?

Think about why the Spirit is given to us.

Jesus said I give Him as a helper.
Scripture says the Spirit leads us into ALL TRUTH.

How can the Spirit function the way God said He would, if He isn't complete?

God bless you my friend and great questions.
My name is OLIGOS

I see the baptism of the Holy Spirit in step six, after the graft has taken. Not a little at a time.

6) if the graft takes, which as we know the most important time is at the very beginning of grafting the sprig to the tree. If successful, then and only then will the Spirit of Christ be sealed into the faither or surrendered life.

As you can see, all this is based upon God Himself. God's word, His promises, what Hes said and done is the " occasion " for the surrendered life. But only after we have received the Spirit of Christ at the other end of the process.



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[Seasoned by Grace]

I see the baptism of the Holy Spirit in step six, after the graft has taken. Not a little at a time.

6) if the graft takes, which as we know the most important time is at the very beginning of grafting the sprig to the tree. If successful, then and only then will the Spirit of Christ be sealed into the faither or surrendered life.

As you can see, all this is based upon God Himself. God's word, His promises, what Hes said and done is the " occasion " for the surrendered life. But only after we have received the Spirit of Christ at the other end of the process.



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Uhh...There is no baptism of the Holy Spirit today.
But there is water immersion baptism to receive the "GIFT" of the Holy Spirit in Acts2:38..
I think this is a discussion that's almost as old as 2000 years, and there's those who agree and those who don't.
I don't get in a "Dither" about it because it's already settled in my heart.

God bless you as you continue your walk, and stay well my friend and brother
Mt name is OLIGOS

 

[Watchman 2]

Keep in mind that in my understanding, the 3 that fail in the parable of the sower, and if the graft doesn't take, those ones would be able to try again if the Father is still calling them. This being that they haven't received the Spirit of Christ yet.

With the " believe and recieve" understanding, the three that fail in the parable of the sower failed with the Spirit of Christ already in them. They wouldn't be able to have another try because we can only receive the Spirit of Christ once. Same with the one being grafted.