Bible Study Understanding this verse

[King Dan of Great the 1st]

Its a verse the church seems to hide from as it hardly ever if ever gets talked about, but i dont hide from anything Jesus said so lets discuss it.

Basicaly Jesus said to a mulitude if they dont hate there own family and themselves they cannot be his diciple, and we know that would contradict Jesus preaching about loving one another and his commandemnt to love thy neighbour as thyself and the law of God is love. And the word hate acturally means hate in the original there is no way around it as that is what he said.

So whats the context and reason for Jesus saying that?. Is it just not understanding the text properly?. Was it that he knew no one could follow him and understand what he was doing for the world so when he said that it was so they could see in there hearts the love they acturally have for themsleves and for there families and neighbour as love is the ultimate so they could all see it clearly yet cannt do what he was going to do for them so they could not follow him?.

Is he talking about just hating the sin in the person not the actural person themsleves and its just not clarified?.

I dont know thats why im asking.

How does one explain that verse?

 

[daninthelionsden]

Having been born an illegitimate child and being abused and abandoned by "family", I understand being set free from familial influence contrary to Christ. I've been hated and hated myself because of it. Having lived the verse, I have no problem with understanding it. Maybe it's just very unfortunate that I can say that. Then again.....maybe not. The Last Day ...I'll find out.

 

[Fastfredy0]

I assume we're talking Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his own father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, and even his own life—he cannot be My disciple.
Aside: the verse has always 'bugged'/puzzled me.

My opinion:
One must choose to follow in God's path in hating anything that hates the Lord or his standards ( Psalm 139:22 ). A majority of the family relatives of those whom follow Christ do not follow Christ. God hates those that do not follow Christ. (Yeah, I know there's a misnomer that "God loves everyone without exception but this contradicts scripture (Psalm 2:12; John 3:36b; Romans 1:18; Romans 2:5, Romans 2:8; Romans 5:9; Romans 9:22; Colossians 3:6; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 2:16 (people persecuted by Jews); 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Ephesians 5:6-7; Colossians 3:5-6; Hebrews 3:11; Revelation 6:16-17; Revelation 19:15).
God hates anything opposed to His moral character yet He is “slow to anger”. Unlike much of human anger, divine wrath/hate is not emotional or petty, but it stems from God’s holy nature. This divine anger and hatred is directed against all who reject Jesus Christ.

Definition of God's Hate
Since God is impassible -- his mind cannot be emotionally disturbed -- this means that divine hate is not emotional; rather, God’s hate (wrath) is [anthropomorphic] and a volition to demonstrate his holy justice against sin. Since God is holy He is separate from all that is unclean and evil. Thus, God’s hate is an intellectual disposition of disassociation and disfavor to those who are not morally perfect (God is holy/light).

 

[jasonc]

I assume we're talking Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his own father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, and even his own life—he cannot be My disciple.
Aside: the verse has always 'bugged'/puzzled me.

My opinion:
One must choose to follow in God's path in hating anything that hates the Lord or his standards ( Psalm 139:22 ). A majority of the family relatives of those whom follow Christ do not follow Christ. God hates those that do not follow Christ. (Yeah, I know there's a misnomer that "God loves everyone without exception but this contradicts scripture (Psalm 2:12; John 3:36b; Romans 1:18; Romans 2:5, Romans 2:8; Romans 5:9; Romans 9:22; Colossians 3:6; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 2:16 (people persecuted by Jews); 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Ephesians 5:6-7; Colossians 3:5-6; Hebrews 3:11; Revelation 6:16-17; Revelation 19:15).
God hates anything opposed to His moral character yet He is “slow to anger”. Unlike much of human anger, divine wrath/hate is not emotional or petty, but it stems from God’s holy nature. This divine anger and hatred is directed against all who reject Jesus Christ.

Definition of God's Hate
Since God is impassible -- his mind cannot be emotionally disturbed -- this means that divine hate is not emotional; rather, God’s hate (wrath) is [anthropomorphic] and a volition to demonstrate his holy justice against sin. Since God is holy He is separate from all that is unclean and evil. Thus, God’s hate is an intellectual disposition of disassociation and disfavor to those who are not morally perfect (God is holy/light).

the often quoted verse God won't hear the prayers of sinners .as often those are not in line with His will but lusts .

if it weren't for my serg
veant jephoshphat I wouldnt regard you ..

 

[Tzephanyahu]

Hi kiwidan

I looked into this passage before. As I remember it, it's to do with the Hebrew language and expression.

In this context, hate is used as a juxtaposition as to say "in favour over" or "more than". But it's a black and white "love and hate" probably to highlight the extremity one should have in favour of the Messiah.

Perhaps another way of saying it would be "if one comes to me and doesn't forsake the bonds and rule of his mother and father, yes doesn't even turn from his own life, he cannot be my disciple"

I hope that helps.

Peace

 

[Fastfredy0]

I looked into this passage before. As I remember it, it's to do with the Hebrew language and expression.

In this context, hate is used as a juxtaposition as to say "in favour over" or "more than". But it's a black and white "love and hate" probably to highlight the extremity one should have in favour of the Messiah.

Perhaps another way of saying it would be "if one comes to me and doesn't forsake the bonds and rule of his mother and father, yes doesn't even turn from his own life, he cannot be my disciple"

I hope that helps.

I've heard this and similar explanations. I gravitate to it because it fits my knowledge of God, but if I read this passage in a novel there is NO WAY I would come to this conclusion ... so I think I will forever be on the fence.

 

[Quantrill]

I would say that Jesus is not saying that we just hate our father, mother, and brother and sister, for nothing. Something occurs that must cause this hate. The same verse found in (Luke 14:26) is also found in (Matt. 10:37). But the word 'hate' is not used.

In (Matthew 10), the context clearly shows a conflict. (10:33) "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."

(Matt. 10:34) "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

(Matt. 10:35) "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."

(Matt. 10:36) "And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

(Matt. 10:37) "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

So, when that something which comes between us following Christ is our family members, we should hate them. Even at an early age Christ manifested this attitude when his parents found Him in the Temple. (Luke 2:48-49) "And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business."

And when Jesus turned the water into wine, He first rebuked His mother. (John 2:4) "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come."

And when once Israel fully rejected Jesus, He denied His family completely. (Matt. 12:47-49) "Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!"

So, It's my opinion that there is a cause/affect to understand what it is to hate our members of our family. If and when they come between us and Christ, we will, or, we should. And our love is always growing. So to the extent that we love Christ, we will equally hate that which comes between us and Christ.

Quantrill

 

[daninthelionsden]

I would say that Jesus is not saying that we just hate our father, mother, and brother and sister, for nothing. Something occurs that must cause this hate. The same verse found in (Luke 14:26) is also found in (Matt. 10:37). But the word 'hate' is not used.

In (Matthew 10), the context clearly shows a conflict. (10:33) "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."

(Matt. 10:34) "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

(Matt. 10:35) "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."

(Matt. 10:36) "And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

(Matt. 10:37) "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

So, when that something which comes between us following Christ is our family members, we should hate them. Even at an early age Christ manifested this attitude when his parents found Him in the Temple. (Luke 2:48-49) "And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business."

And when Jesus turned the water into wine, He first rebuked His mother. (John 2:4) "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come."

And when once Israel fully rejected Jesus, He denied His family completely. (Matt. 12:47-49) "Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!"

So, It's my opinion that there is a cause/affect to understand what it is to hate our members of our family. If and when they come between us and Christ, we will, or, we should. And our love is always growing. So to the extent that we love Christ, we will equally hate that which comes between us and Christ.

Quantrill

Being an outcast in my own family. I spent a lot of my childhood in other familys' homes. I saw that many, if not all, had strong family bonds even above God. I would think it safe to assume this familial loyalty is a basic human characteristic. I have known girls molested by their fathers and still they placed them on pedestals.

 

[Who Me]

Its a verse the church seems to hide from as it hardly ever if ever gets talked about, but i dont hide from anything Jesus said so lets discuss it.

Basicaly Jesus said to a mulitude if they dont hate there own family and themselves they cannot be his diciple, and we know that would contradict Jesus preaching about loving one another and his commandemnt to love thy neighbour as thyself and the law of God is love. And the word hate acturally means hate in the original there is no way around it as that is what he said.

So whats the context and reason for Jesus saying that?. Is it just not understanding the text properly?. Was it that he knew no one could follow him and understand what he was doing for the world so when he said that it was so they could see in there hearts the love they acturally have for themsleves and for there families and neighbour as love is the ultimate so they could all see it clearly yet cannt do what he was going to do for them so they could not follow him?.

Is he talking about just hating the sin in the person not the actural person themsleves and its just not clarified?.

I dont know thats why im asking.

How does one explain that verse?

By reading the rest of the chapter.
Jesus is not talking about loving others but about the cost of following him.

What do you do when family obligations clash with your Christian principals?
Jesus is saying then you hate your family and follow Jesus.

 

[Quantrill]

Being an outcast in my own family. I spent a lot of my childhood in other familys' homes. I saw that many, if not all, had strong family bonds even above God. I would think it safe to assume this familial loyalty is a basic human characteristic. I have known girls molested by their fathers and still they placed them on pedestals.

And....? Is that supposed to mean something concerning what I said?

Quantrill

 

[daninthelionsden]

And....? Is that supposed to mean something concerning what I said?

Quantrill

I forgot it was you the arguer I was replying to.

 

[GodsGrace]

Its a verse the church seems to hide from as it hardly ever if ever gets talked about, but i dont hide from anything Jesus said so lets discuss it.

Basicaly Jesus said to a mulitude if they dont hate there own family and themselves they cannot be his diciple, and we know that would contradict Jesus preaching about loving one another and his commandemnt to love thy neighbour as thyself and the law of God is love. And the word hate acturally means hate in the original there is no way around it as that is what he said.

So whats the context and reason for Jesus saying that?. Is it just not understanding the text properly?. Was it that he knew no one could follow him and understand what he was doing for the world so when he said that it was so they could see in there hearts the love they acturally have for themsleves and for there families and neighbour as love is the ultimate so they could all see it clearly yet cannt do what he was going to do for them so they could not follow him?.

Is he talking about just hating the sin in the person not the actural person themsleves and its just not clarified?.

I dont know thats why im asking.

How does one explain that verse?

Hi Dan,,,
I agree with post no. 5

It's no big mystery.

 

[PaulChristensen]

I think the word "hate" should be translated as "to love less". I don't think that He meant that we should harbour hatred in our hearts for family members in order to be faithful to Him. Sadly there are some extreme religious cults that take the word hate literally and teach their members to sever all family contacts in order to serve God fully. The "Moonies" are an example of this where they brainwash their young members to separate themselves from their parents. There are other exclusive religious groups that if a member leaves and their family is still within the group, the member is kept from having any further contact with their family.

I don't think that Jesus meant any of this. He meant that we put God first and family second. My priority list is God first, family second, employment third, and church last. I separate God from the church because in most cases, churches don't always represent Christ and therefore putting a church before Christ is making Christ ineffective for that person.

 

[daninthelionsden]

I think the word "hate" should be translated as "to love less". I don't think that He meant that we should harbour hatred in our hearts for family members in order to be faithful to Him. Sadly there are some extreme religious cults that take the word hate literally and teach their members to sever all family contacts in order to serve God fully. The "Moonies" are an example of this where they brainwash their young members to separate themselves from their parents. There are other exclusive religious groups that if a member leaves and their family is still within the group, the member is kept from having any further contact with their family.

I don't think that Jesus meant any of this. He meant that we put God first and family second. My priority list is God first, family second, employment third, and church last. I separate God from the church because in most cases, churches don't always represent Christ and therefore putting a church before Christ is making Christ ineffective for that person.

I use a target based priority/boundary system for relationships myself. Of course, God being in the bull'seye and all others in descending order outside that.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Jesus said hate, because He meant hate

The definition of HATE has always interested me. Do you have a definition? Using your definition I ask, does God hate?

My how Christians love to recreate Jesus.

Very true. Perhaps we all do it to some degree.

 

[Quantrill]

The definition of HATE has always interested me. Do you have a definition? Using your definition I ask, does God hate?


Very true. Perhaps we all do it to some degree.

You want to play word games. I see.

Does 'is' mean 'is'? Does 'red' really mean 'red'?

What does Scripture say about God hating?

Quantrill

 

[Fastfredy0]

You want to play word games. I see.

Does 'is' mean 'is'? Does 'red' really mean 'red'?

What does Scripture say about God hating?

If you don't want to (or can't) answer ... that's fine.

 

[Quantrill]

If you don't want to (or can't) answer ... that's fine.

Don't want to play your word game.

Hate means hate. Pretty simple. What does Scripture say about God hating?

Quantrill

 

[Fastfredy0]

Don't want to play your word game.

Wise decision.

Hate means hate

Deep. Just that other day someone insisted that the definition of ALL is ALL. Using this methodology one could define any word in any language. ...

 

[Sister]

I would think Jesus was using hyperbole to show how deep our love for Him should be. He said the world would hate us as Christians. He said we will be persecuted. Not if. Thankfully not every family is of the world, but would want us to love God first and foremost.