Walk in the Light?

[cupid dave]

Like I said those who are under law are in darkness.

They are trapped in a cycle of breaking the Law, sacrificing to the priests a dove or a lamb, feeling they are paid in full, and then they return again to the same behavior.

We see Catholics using Friday Confession before duplicating last week end's "fun."

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Of course, Jesus said the spirit of Truth is in people already, like Conscience.

That the kingdom of this God is within suggests ...............

Jesus, when quoted about the 'spirit of truth' did not say it was in everyone. He told his disciple that when He sent it , it would guide THEM and bring to rememberance all that he had taught.

As far as the Kingdom of God being within, the question is; Without who or what? I know of no way of determining what exactly Jesus was referring to when he was quoted. Did he mean that the kingdom was in there midst of those (Pharisses included) to whom he was speaking because he was the king or did he mean that it is something that was in their hearts (again, his enemies, the Pharisses included)?

Today, the churches are blind to the sexual decay and promiscuity in the West.
While they support the talk of demagoguery by their chosen Conservative on the moment, they ignore that it is Christian girls, 2-to-1, who are aborting babies and being sexually promiscuous during the 14 years before they finally marry around age 26.

They will excuse and rationalize this fact, ignore the Truth, and pretend that it is abortion which is evil, not extended adolescence of 14 years before matrimony, and No Fault Divorce.
The reason for abortions is that young people who have no safe Institution like Marriage available for them, will use their God-given hormonal urges to procreate without those Social Institutions.

The reason their is social institution that guides and directs sexual behavior for young people is that the parents want them to become economically successful regardless of whether they get pregnant or not.
Money and status is what these people worship.

You said a mouthful. Pursuit of the almighty dollar has taken precident over real sexual and family health. When the marriage age inches ever closer to 30, it is very much more likely that individuals entering marriage will do so with some sexual experience.

 

[George Muller]

Like I said those who are under law are in darkness.

They are trapped in a cycle of breaking the Law, sacrificing to the priests a dove or a lamb, feeling they are paid in full, and then they return again to the same behavior.

We see Catholics using Friday Confession before duplicating last week end's "fun."

You lay that charge just to "Catholics"? but I dont think you are seeing the full effect of the "light".
"He who is without sin, cast the first stone" No man is or was without sin except the Lord Himself, and He forgave and would not condemn.
So what man has a right to condemn another by the law? See the "Light" is not about seeing man and his sin, The "Light" is about seeing Christ and His righteousness.

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

this is the true light and there is no other.

 

[childeye]

Like I said those who are under law are in darkness.

They are trapped in a cycle of breaking the Law, sacrificing to the priests a dove or a lamb, feeling they are paid in full, and then they return again to the same behavior.

We see Catholics using Friday Confession before duplicating last week end's "fun."

You lay that charge just to "Catholics"? but I dont think you are seeing the full effect of the "light".
"He who is without sin, cast the first stone" No man is or was without sin except the Lord Himself, and He forgave and would not condemn.
So what man has a right to condemn another by the law? See the "Light" is not about seeing man and his sin, The "Light" is about seeing Christ and His righteousness.

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

this is the true light and there is no other.

Scripture says the law actually empowers sin even because it is not of faith. Jesus died so that sins could be forgiven not condemned. Walking in the Light is in part, seeing that weakness of the flesh is only overcome by the circumcision made without hands. We cannot judge so as to condemn if we know this. The Light is the knowledge of God.

 

[cupid dave]

Jesus, when quoted about the 'spirit of truth' did not say it was in everyone. He told his disciple that when He sent it , it would guide THEM and bring to rememberance all that he had taught.

Jesus was referring to the New Testament, or the Holy Comforter:

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Christ WAS The Truth.
Christ personified The Truth.
Truth was right there in 32AD, as Jesus explained to Philip:


John 14:6 Jesus said to them, "I, (as thepersonification of the concept, Truth), am the way (men ought be),and the truth (corresponding with Reality), and the life (eternalfor our species): no Man cometh unto the Father, (almighty Reality),but by me, (Truth)"


7 If ye had known me, (asthe personification of Truth, i.e.; theideal or concept), ye should have known my Father, (the correspondingForce behind the almighty Reality within which all life is trapped), also:and from henceforth ye know him, (as our Reality), and have seen him,(for Reality is congruent to Truth).

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord,show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have Ibeen so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, (speaking onlyof Truth as the spirit that saves mankind from erroneous behaviors),
Philip?... hethat hath seen me, (the Truth), hath seen the Father, (thecorresponding Reality which is almighty to our very existence); andhow sayest thou then, Show us the Father, (when you have seen me,i.e.; the Truth)?

John 14:10 Believest thou notthat I, (Truth), am (found) in the Father, (i.e.; theForce behind the ever unfolding almighty Reality which sires Truth)?

And (that Reality), theFather (is found as His image) in me, (a mental vision correspondingto the Facts-of-Life).

The words that Ispeak, (the truth), unto you, I speak not of myself: but theFather, (i.e.; the Reality wherein we exist), that dwelleth in me (asTruth), he does the works ( which I envision for what they are).

 

[cupid dave]

You said a mouthful. Pursuit of the almighty dollar has taken precident over real sexual and family health. When the marriage age inches ever closer to 30, it is very much more likely that individuals entering marriage will do so with some sexual experience.

Yep...
Women protect themselves and get great advantage by waiting until they can actually see what the husband will become.
As a society become feminized and women can work before getting married, even attend college, adolr=escemce ofr the males is extended well past the time when they realy need a woman sexually.
They peak around age 18, and by 26, they are really cooled down and the problems that unrequited sexual drives cause no longer exist are are very few.

During that 14 years, the men are like starving thirsting animals and every social problem is enhanced and enlarged during the 14 years.

Some women would argue that working is access to independence and well deserved, as it is.
But these women have replaced men in tee Labor force and the effect of doubling the number of employees available to employers has been to hold wages down.
Wages are so low today that a High School student can no longer afford to keep a family, and can not marry, essentially taking half the pay check of former times.

That is a Truth.

 

[cupid dave]

You lay that charge just to "Catholics"?

No, Mr George,..
"Catholics" was just an example.
All the denominational Christians do the same.
Many denominations even brag that OSAS.

 

[George Muller]

Like I said those who are under law are in darkness.

They are trapped in a cycle of breaking the Law, sacrificing to the priests a dove or a lamb, feeling they are paid in full, and then they return again to the same behavior.

We see Catholics using Friday Confession before duplicating last week end's "fun."

You lay that charge just to "Catholics"? but I dont think you are seeing the full effect of the "light".
"He who is without sin, cast the first stone" No man is or was without sin except the Lord Himself, and He forgave and would not condemn.
So what man has a right to condemn another by the law? See the "Light" is not about seeing man and his sin, The "Light" is about seeing Christ and His righteousness.

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

this is the true light and there is no other.

Scripture says the law actually empowers sin even because it is not of faith. Jesus died so that sins could be forgiven not condemned. Walking in the Light is in part, seeing that weakness of the flesh is only overcome by the circumcision made without hands. We cannot judge so as to condemn if we know this. The Light is the knowledge of God.

Thank you childeye and "seeing the weakness of mans flesh" is no doubt the purpose of the law. This is where many stumble at truth and "light"? For those who are still seeking to judge others by the law, have not admitted the "wretched" condition of their own flesh. Those who yet seek to justify themselves by the law are not in truth. Yes the knowlede of God, comes through the Person and work of Christ and because of the condition of every mans flesh, no man can behold Him except that they "behold" Him in grace and receive His Righteousness by faith.

2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 ¶ Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord

Heb 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

 

[George Muller]

You lay that charge just to "Catholics"?

No, Mr George,..
"Catholics" was just an example.
All the denominational Christians do the same.
Many denominations even brag that OSAS.

Well I hope I never meet any of these people.

 

[smaller]

Like I said those who are under law are in darkness.

The point was, George, that we all have indwelling sin and evil present that rightfully stands condemned under the law and remains so even after belief.

Trying to paint ourselves up as 'entirely' Okey Dokey is a quest of futility.

I am entirely Okey Dokey with the indwelling sin and evil present with me to remain fully under the law and condemned, which is where it truthfully belongs. When God Himself rids me of this body of flesh wherein those things presently reside, then I will no longer have to deal with it.

dig?

s

 

[Guest]

Yeah but we should stand out in the world of sin.

 

[George Muller]

Like I said those who are under law are in darkness.

The point was, George, that we all have indwelling sin and evil present that rightfully stands condemned under the law and remains so even after belief.

Trying to paint ourselves up as 'entirely' Okey Dokey is a quest of futility.

I am entirely Okey Dokey with the indwelling sin and evil present with me to remain fully under the law and condemned, which is where it truthfully belongs. When God Himself rids me of this body of flesh wherein those things presently reside, then I will no longer have to deal with it.

dig?

s

My friend smaller, you may consider what part of the scriptures you desire to believe? I respect your right and will even try to respect your opinion if it is based upon honest intentions. I admit that "nothing good lives in my flesh" that is the purpose of the law.
Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

I also accept the "good news" that I am justified freely by His grace.

Ro 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Here is the light. Christ Jesus! Not mans weakness but Gods righteousness.

 

[smaller]

My friend smaller, you may consider what part of the scriptures you desire to believe? I respect your right and will even try to respect your opinion if it is based upon honest intentions. I admit that "nothing good lives in my flesh"

Great. We see alike then. And you may also see the benefit of the law being against indwelling sin and evil present in any of us?

Like I said I have no issues with that being a fact. The Law is actually my ally in being against indwelling sin and evil present IN MYSELF just as we should also be as christians. Who wants to be a slave to sin and evil? Really not all that interested. But we don't escape the fact of having same by denial or 'fibbing' about it do we?

No beef with me on that count. Law and Grace are Perfectly Identical in their mutual accords against SIN and EVIL and that ain't gonna change because we fly a salvation prayer.

If you failed to see the Law in that way it's not unusual. Most don't. Or they falsely think their indwelling sin and evil present doesn't exist OR that it's legally obedient. I find any of those claims, well, not feasible to be polite.

s

 

[George Muller]

My friend smaller, you may consider what part of the scriptures you desire to believe? I respect your right and will even try to respect your opinion if it is based upon honest intentions. I admit that "nothing good lives in my flesh"

Great. We see alike then. And you may also see the benefit of the law being against indwelling sin and evil present in any of us?

Like I said I have no issues with that being a fact. The Law is actually my ally in being against indwelling sin and evil present IN MYSELF just as we should also be as christians. Who wants to be a slave to sin and evil? Really not all that interested. But we don't escape the fact of having same by denial or 'fibbing' about it do we?

No beef with me on that count. Law and Grace are Perfectly Identical in their mutual accords against SIN and EVIL and that ain't gonna change because we fly a salvation prayer.

If you failed to see the Law in that way it's not unusual. Most don't. Or they falsely think their indwelling sin and evil present doesn't exist OR that it's legally obedient. I find any of those claims, well, not feasible to be polite.

s

Well, I think we can agree on much? I am sure we may disagree on some things?
Again my point is that those who are under the law are blinded by the law. Those who through the law, have died to the law, have been set free from sins power, just as the scripture declare.

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Those who are under the law are in darkness, only those who behold Christ and His righteousness are walking in the light.

 

[George Muller]

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
12 ¶ Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Is sin still sin? Yes! But those who walk in the light will see and know the truth about themself? "I KNOW NOTHING GOOD LIVES IN ME, THAT IS IN MY FLESH"
This truth, working with the righteousness of God as seen in Christ, has the effect to put to death the flesh, and give life unto the spirit.

Thus we can say, "I am the greatest of sinners" and we can also say that "in Him, I have no sin" You see the focus is not upon us, the focus is upon who we are "in Him"

 

[smaller]

Those who are under the law are in darkness, only those who behold Christ and His righteousness are walking in the light.

All sin and evil was, is and remains 'under the law' in any in whom it is found and yeah, it's found in exactly all.

After a few years of living in deception, denial and hypocrisy some will press harder on the subject matter and figure out sin is in fact of the devil.

Is it a problem if the Law was, is and remains against the devil and his messengers until they are destroyed? Uh no. Why would it be a problem? To me that is GOOD NEWS. That God is actually against sin and evil. Wow. Big disclosure huh?

The only 'problem' is that the factual information tends to stick in the craw when a believer first tries to press through the matters.

So many will thrash around for awhile thinking they are the 'chief of sinners' and they are also the 'sinless righteousness of God in Christ' and think that makes some kind of sense. Well, guess what? It doesn't.

Paul was the chief of sinners because as an Apostle he came into dealing the the tempter himself in his own mind and heart. Paul understood that the chiefest of sinners, the tempter, was in fact his perpetual adversary. And I for one am thankful and grateful for Paul's honest disclosures which drew me out of the depths and darkness of hypocrisy, which I hated as Gods child. I still hate it.

We could say 'walking in the light' means turning on a flashlight or standing in the sun, but Gods Light is an internal matter unseen.

So is the internal darkness we have for which said LIGHT is needed. Does it matter if another sees the fact of it?

I expect God can show any believer the facts of darkness in an instant, but He is Kind and Merciful and makes His Disclosures when and how He wants.

And if nothing else, if any believer lived their entire lives and didn't perceive that they themselves carried internal darkness, that too was ignorant bliss for them in way. It's just not a sight that is meant for all in this present life.

Some just get an earlier look.

s

 

[George Muller]

So many will thrash around for awhile thinking they are the 'chief of sinners' and they are also the 'sinless righteousness of God in Christ' and think that makes some kind of sense. Well, guess what? It doesn't.

Of course it does not "make sense" thus it is by faith. The fact that a person believes almost anything that relates to faith in the unseen God, will not make sense to the natural "carnal mind"


2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Yes the gospel takes faith, that a man named Christ died for our sins 2000 years ago, does not make sense to the natural mind.

 

[smaller]

Of course it does not "make sense" thus it is by faith.

That's going in my 'classic quotes' file. Heh heh.

For the record I am a strong proponent of applied reasoning to scriptures.

I would also agree that no carnal mind can reason, spiritually. Even christians.

s

 

[George Muller]

Of course it does not "make sense" thus it is by faith.

That's going in my 'classic quotes' file. Heh heh.

For the record I am a strong proponent of applied reasoning to scriptures.

I would also agree that no carnal mind can reason, spiritually. Even christians.

s

I have been reading many of your post, smaller. You seem to accept some portions of scripture that take "unreasonable faith'' but you would limit that to what you can accept as reasonable?
You are free to "applied reason" but that should not limit others in the faith in the clear and evident reading of the scriptures.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Now does this make sense? Not to the natural mind! Thats why its by faith

 

[smaller]

I have been reading many of your post, smaller. You seem to accept some portions of scripture that take "unreasonable faith'' but you would limit that to what you can accept as reasonable?

You'll have to give an example or two George. I will admit that as a general rule speaking of spiritual matters between believers is difficult because of the topic matter. We all have certain constructs in our heads wherein the information bounces around and then a final statement comes out of peoples heads that sometimes doesn't always make immediate sense.

So examples in such statements would seem to be in order. Spiritual logic is the most difficult of matters. And rightfully so as it deals largely with intangible constructs (the internal basis of good and evil.) It makes conversations exceptionally difficult.

You are free to "applied reason" but that should not limit others in the faith in the clear and evident reading of the scriptures.

What may be clear and relevant to one person may have no relevance whatsoever to another. That much is certain.

Some think Truth is a hardline matter. I happen to think Truth is beyond our definitions and captures. And I have 'reasoned' positions for that understanding.

C?

Now does this make sense? Not to the natural mind! Thats why its by faith

I've witnessed to scores of natural minds and have no issues with conveying Love as a Divine Matter of God in Christ and most 'natural minds' can relate to that/His Spirit, given half a chance to communicate.

On the other hand trying to beat them into a 'hardline hole' of some sects constructs gets problematic and rightfully rejected many times.

s