Was Christ created according to Proverbs 8:30?

[jonahmano]

Two women visited my house and they were discussing scriptures and they were showing two verses to prove that Jesus was born. the first one was in

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (Colossians 1:15)

The second scripture was from Proverbs 8:22 onwards

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

I anyhow convinced them about the first verse that Christ wasn't created according to Colossians 1:15 but it was figuratively said about Christ being the first born among man to be seated in the heavenly places.

And I also told them that there would be another connecting scripture to prove the first scripture and they immediately showed me Proverbs 8:22 and I replied them that I didn't meditate on Proverbs, I will surely get back to you.

My question is what does Proverbs 8:22-27 mean?

 

[Kathi]

What denomination were these women who visited your house?

 

[Gary]

My question is what does Proverbs 8:22-27 mean?

That passage is referencing wisdom. I don't see anything about the birth of Jesus.
.

 

[Shimshon]

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:



My question is what does Proverbs 8:22-27 mean?

I understand it to mean the blessings of wisdom. In context that which the Lord possessed in the beginning was 'wisdom'. Though we can see the image of Messiah in this wisdom. The book of proverbs is about wisdom.

Prov 1
7The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

20Wisdom cries aloud in the street, in the markets she raises her voice; 21 at the head of the noisy streets she cries out; at the entrance of the city gates she speaks: 22 "How long, O simple ones, will you love being simple? How long will scoffers delight in their scoffing and fools hate knowledge?

Prov 2
1My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, 2 making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; 3 yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, 4 if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, 5 then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God. 6 For the LORD gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding; 7 he stores up sound wisdom for the upright; he is a shield to those who walk in integrity, 8 guarding the paths of justice and watching over the way of his saints.

Prov 3
13Blessed is the one who finds wisdom, and the one who gets understanding, 14for the gain from her is better than gain from silver and her profit better than gold. 15 She is more precious than jewels, and nothing you desire can compare with her. 16Long life is in her right hand; in her left hand are riches and honor. 17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. 18 She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her; those who hold her fast are called blessed.

19The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; by understanding he established the heavens; 20 by his knowledge the deeps broke open, and the clouds drop down the dew. 21 My son, do not lose sight of these-- keep sound wisdom and discretion, 22 and they will be life for your soul and adornment for your neck.

Prov 4
5Get wisdom; get insight; do not forget, and do not turn away from the words of my mouth. 6 Do not forsake her, and she will keep you; love her, and she will guard you. 7The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom, and whatever you get, get insight. 8 Prize her highly, and she will exalt you; she will honor you if you embrace her. 9 She will place on your head a graceful garland; she will bestow on you a beautiful crown."

Prov 9
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.
​

Proverbs 9 speaks to your question. Notice how by wisdom the Lord founded the earth, established the heavens..... This echos proverbs 8 in these things. Yes we can see the image of Messiah in this but it's not the context. So to use proverbs 8 to further the concept that Jesus was created 'along side' God is not realistic. It's out of context.

 

[Shimshon]

That passage is referencing wisdom. I don't see anything about the birth of Jesus.
.

 

[Kathi]

I understand it to mean the blessings of wisdom. In context that which the Lord possessed in the beginning was 'wisdom'. Though we can see the image of Messiah in this wisdom. The book of proverbs is about wisdom.

Prov 1
7The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

20Wisdom cries aloud in the street, in the markets she raises her voice; 21 at the head of the noisy streets she cries out; at the entrance of the city gates she speaks: 22 "How long, O simple ones, will you love being simple? How long will scoffers delight in their scoffing and fools hate knowledge?

Prov 2
1My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, 2 making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; 3 yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, 4 if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, 5 then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God. 6 For the LORD gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding; 7 he stores up sound wisdom for the upright; he is a shield to those who walk in integrity, 8 guarding the paths of justice and watching over the way of his saints.

Prov 3
13Blessed is the one who finds wisdom, and the one who gets understanding, 14for the gain from her is better than gain from silver and her profit better than gold. 15 She is more precious than jewels, and nothing you desire can compare with her. 16Long life is in her right hand; in her left hand are riches and honor. 17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. 18 She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her; those who hold her fast are called blessed.

19The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; by understanding he established the heavens; 20 by his knowledge the deeps broke open, and the clouds drop down the dew. 21 My son, do not lose sight of these-- keep sound wisdom and discretion, 22 and they will be life for your soul and adornment for your neck.

Prov 4
5Get wisdom; get insight; do not forget, and do not turn away from the words of my mouth. 6 Do not forsake her, and she will keep you; love her, and she will guard you. 7The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom, and whatever you get, get insight. 8 Prize her highly, and she will exalt you; she will honor you if you embrace her. 9 She will place on your head a graceful garland; she will bestow on you a beautiful crown."

Prov 9
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.
​

Proverbs 9 speaks to your question. Notice how by wisdom the Lord founded the earth, established the heavens..... This echos proverbs 8 in these things. Yes we can see the image of Messiah in this but it's not the context. So to use proverbs 8 to further the concept that Jesus was created 'along side' God is not realistic. It's out of context.

That is how I see it too as wisdom.He created the heavens by His wisdom.

 

[Willie T]

You are being told correctly by all these posters. One big mistake many people make is just seizing upon a verse or verses without understanding one of the most important concepts of the Bible... CONTEXT.

Go back up to the beginning of the chapter, and find out who is saying these things.

 

[jasonc]

You are being told correctly by all these posters. One big mistake many people make is just seizing upon a verse or verses without understanding one of the most important concepts of the Bible... CONTEXT.

Go back up to the beginning of the chapter, and find out who is saying these things.

C-O-N-T-E-X-T ? that is good advice. we all need to do that first with any chapter.

 

[reba]

Pro 8:12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.
Pro 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Pro 8:14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
Pro 8:15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
Pro 8:16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
Pro 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Pro 8:18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
Pro 8:19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
Pro 8:20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
Pro 8:21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.


The Scriptures were not written in chapter and verse ... We can really mess up stopping and starting .. cutting into a thought...

 

[reba]

Coke COKE? you are looking for trouble... have a

 

[Kathi]

Coke COKE? you are looking for trouble... have a

I am with you.A Pepsi person through and through.

 

[Deborah13]

I am with you.A Pepsi person through and through.

Nope, Coke with a little lemon juice. :shades

 

[Gary]

Actually...

.

 

[jasonc]

Actually...

.

I cant drink much of that anymore. besides moses was a mountain jew when he descended horeb.lol

 

[Deborah13]

I cant drink much of that anymore. besides moses was a mountain jew when he descended horeb.lol

 

[tobewell]

Two women visited my house and they were discussing scriptures and they were showing two verses to prove that Jesus was born. the first one was in

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (Colossians 1:15)

The second scripture was from Proverbs 8:22 onwards

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

I anyhow convinced them about the first verse that Christ wasn't created according to Colossians 1:15 but it was figuratively said about Christ being the first born among man to be seated in the heavenly places.

And I also told them that there would be another connecting scripture to prove the first scripture and they immediately showed me Proverbs 8:22 and I replied them that I didn't meditate on Proverbs, I will surely get back to you.

My question is what does Proverbs 8:22-27 mean?

I'm confused about "two verses that prove that Jesus was born..."

Are you talking "born" as God giving birth to Christ? Are they inferring that angels are born and that they eventually become a God too? Did they try to tell you that Lucifer and Jesus are brothers?

The Mormon faith uses many of the same words of mainline Christianity but they are taught to draw extremely different conclusions from the text. One such example is the nature and Divinity of Christ.

http://mormonvoices.org/1/jesus-brother-of-satan



John echoes Genesis and writes, "In the beginning was the Word (Christ) and the Word was with God and the Word was God."

Christ is both fully human and fully God. He was born and He was always God. A Mystery to ponder.

The Incarnation is the sacrificial love, mercy, Grace and humility of God taking on human flesh to save us, He was born of a woman, conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit, He freely took on our humanity.

 

[Deborah13]

I'm confused about "two verses that prove that Jesus was born..."

Are you talking "born" as God giving birth to another God? Are they inferring that angels are born and that they eventually become a God too? Did they try to tell you that Lucifer and Jesus are brothers?



John echoes Genesis and writes, "In the beginning was the Word (Christ) and the Word was with God and the Word was God."

Christ is both fully human and fully God. He was born and He was always God. A Mystery to ponder.

The Incarnation is the sacrificial love, mercy, Grace and humility of God taking on human flesh to save us, He was born of a woman, conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit, He freely took on our humanity.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[r3alink]

Two women visited my house and they were discussing scriptures and they were showing two verses to prove that Jesus was born. the first one was in

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (Colossians 1:15)

The second scripture was from Proverbs 8:22 onwards

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

I anyhow convinced them about the first verse that Christ wasn't created according to Colossians 1:15 but it was figuratively said about Christ being the first born among man to be seated in the heavenly places.

And I also told them that there would be another connecting scripture to prove the first scripture and they immediately showed me Proverbs 8:22 and I replied them that I didn't meditate on Proverbs, I will surely get back to you.

My question is what does Proverbs 8:22-27 mean?

Vagueness can create many shades of meaning.

 

[th1b.taylor]

You have received the meaning and as advised, never pull any scripture nor any group of scriptures out of the context they are found in. I suspect you are dealing with JWs, they like jerking scripture from the context to prove the lies of their false religion. Praying you open their eyes.

 

[Willie T]

C-O-N-T-E-X-T ? that is good advice. we all need to do that first with any chapter.

A wise saying: "If you pull TEXT out of CONTEXT, you are left with just a CON."