Was Jesus a sinner like everyone else?

[bibleberean]

are you going to answer any of the points made? :D

I wasn't aware that you ever made any points. :-?

 

[DivineNames]

The Jews were being hypocrites. (as usual) and the skeptics can't see it as ususal...

(1) Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: (2) "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. (3) So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach... (Matthew 23:1-3 NIV)

"So you must obey them and do everything they tell you"

Jesus said that people should obey them. Did he obey them himself? No he didn't. Jesus is guilty of hypocrisy himself. Jesus does not practice what he preaches.

 

[DivineNames]

I wasn't aware that you ever made any points. :-?

All you really seem to have done, is say that it wouldn't be a sin to pick grain on the sabbath if it was to immediately eat.

Jesus doesn't say this. And in fact, what you are saying contradicts Jesus, because if he is arguing for an exemption, then that assumes that the act is generally forbidden.

If you think Jesus is wrong... :D

 

[DivineNames]

Would it be OK for anyone to pick grain on the Sabbath, if they were hungry and just picked what they wanted to eat?

If so, why does Jesus argue-

(5) Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? (6) I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. (Matthew 12:5-6 NIV)

Jesus does seem to be arguing for a special exemption for his own disciples, on the grounds that he, Jesus, is a super-special person, greater than the temple.

 

[DivineNames]

"Let us imagine that the Pharisees of the story, who disappear as fast as they appear, had brought Jesus and his disciples before a magistrate, and Jesus had repeated his argument: David did something similar; besides, the sabbath was made for humans, and we were hungry. The magistrate might have fined Jesus and his disciples by requiring each of them to take a sin offering to the temple for the unintentional offence - an offence because the argument was not good enough to prove mitigating circumstances, unintentional because Jesus thought that it was."

E. P. Sanders, The Historical Figure of Jesus

 

[peace4all]

Hey.. I love reading these topics and such when its 2 ppl besides me arguing (its sometimes more interesting and as a 3rd party i tend to learn alot) but 2 things are really bothering me.

1) BB, please, atleast make an attemp to answer the questiosn divine posses, or atleast derail his theories

2) divine. EDIT button. It exists. you can edit a post, so you have one longer post, than 4 little ones. it gets my hopes up knowing the next post should be a comeback, but when its not...

 

[reznwerks]

http://www.messiahtruth.com/sinless.html

No, or He would have needed a Saviour Himself.

He never broke the sabbath, as some try to say, either.

I guess it all depends on what your definition of sin is. You have heard it said you politicians get away with murder etc so what it comes down to where you are on the food chain in regards to guilt. If you want to say Jesus is sinless you do so because of his status not because he was without sin. Here are some things that Jesus did that are conveniently overlooked where sin is concerned and would have gotten the average Jew in trouble.
Jesus harvested on the sabbath which clearly violted:Matthew 12:1-6
Deuteronomy 5:21 states that on the sabbath, "in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest." Jews were prohibited from harvesting crops or preparing a meal on the Sabbath; observant Jews still are. Exodus 35:2 states: ...but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. Numbers 15:32-36 described a man who was executed because he gathered wood on Saturday -- perhaps to keep his family from freezing from the cold.
Jesus ate without washing his hands and justified this by negating most of Mosaic law. Encouraging his disiples to negate the mosaic law was a sin in itself.
In Mark5:8-14 Jesus exorcises 2000 demons and sends them into a bunch of pigs which effectivly destroyed the livlehood of the one owning the pigs. Was this not a sin?
Jesus called the Pharisees fools clearly in violation of Matt5:22
In Matt 11:19 and Luke 7:34 Jesus is called a gluttonous man and a drunk.
Is this a sin?
Jesus conspired to steal animals in Mark 11:2-4 when he orders two of his disciples to go into a village locate a colt tied up near the entrance, and to return with it. If someone stopped them they were to explain that the Lord had need of it. Otherwise, they were simply to steal the colt without paying for it or obtaining permission.
Here Jesus is described as being racist in Matth 15:22-28 and Mark 7:25-30
Look at how Jesus reacts to the woman who is pleading for help with her daughter. He says that he came for the Jew only and not the gentile and it was not right for him to "to take the children's bread and to cast it to dogs"So in Jesus' mind if you were and infidel you were a sub human. The woman then rebuked Jesus and he changed his mind.

 

[Gary]

Jesus does seem to be arguing for a special exemption for his own disciples, on the grounds that he, Jesus, is a super-special person, greater than the temple.

:D these skeptics are so funny..... elsewhere they try argue that Jesus never claimed to be God!

:-D

 

[DivineNames]

2) divine. EDIT button. It exists. you can edit a post, so you have one longer post, than 4 little ones. it gets my hopes up knowing the next post should be a comeback, but when its not...

Sorry. :D

 

[Gary]

Jesus conspired to steal animals in Mark 11:2-4 when he orders two of his disciples to go into a village locate a colt tied up near the entrance, and to return with it. If someone stopped them they were to explain that the Lord had need of it. Otherwise, they were simply to steal the colt without paying for it or obtaining permission.

Oh dear... reason baffles rezn again.

http://www.tektonics.org/af/donkeythief.html

 

[Gary]

More lack of reason...

In Matt 11:19 and Luke 7:34 Jesus is called a gluttonous man and a drunk.
Is this a sin?

Yes, of course it is a sin to accuse Jesus of gluttony and being drunk!

:wink:

 

[Gary]

Here Jesus is described as being racist in Matth 15:22-28 and Mark 7:25-30
Look at how Jesus reacts to the woman who is pleading for help with her daughter. He says that he came for the Jew only and not the gentile and it was not right for him to "to take the children's bread and to cast it to dogs"So in Jesus' mind if you were and infidel you were a sub human. The woman then rebuked Jesus and he changed his mind.

Read and learn.
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qcrude.html

:wink:

 

[DivineNames]

:D these skeptics are so funny..... elsewhere they try argue that Jesus never claimed to be God!

:-D

:silly:


These Christians are so silly...

Gary, I am arguing from what Jesus is reported to have said. Its perfectly legit to do this, without having to believe that the report is necessarily true.

By the way, I don't remember giving any argument along the lines of what you suggest. I do remember objecting to the "Liar, Lunatic or Lord?" argument, on the grounds that it assumes that the Bible is accurate. This isn't to argue that Jesus never claimed to be God, but to argue against the certainty of the claim that he did.

 

[Vic C.]

Ooooooook, that's it for the sly quote remarks. :smt027 No more "reznfails" :o


:-D

 

[Gary]

Ok, sorry. I retract "reznfails" and will leave it as "rezn"

8-)

 

[LoveMe]

No Jesus never sinned.He is the only man that lived on earth around people was temp by satan,went through trials and tribulations,but He never sinned. :D

 

[reznwerks]

what if

Jesus conspired to steal animals in Mark 11:2-4 when he orders two of his disciples to go into a village locate a colt tied up near the entrance, and to return with it. If someone stopped them they were to explain that the Lord had need of it. Otherwise, they were simply to steal the colt without paying for it or obtaining permission.

Oh dear... reason baffles rezn again.

http://www.tektonics.org/af/donkeythief.html

What catagory would you put someone in if you woke up and found your car gone?

 

[reznwerks]

WHY

More lack of reason...

In Matt 11:19 and Luke 7:34 Jesus is called a gluttonous man and a drunk.
Is this a sin?

Yes, of course it is a sin to accuse Jesus of gluttony and being drunk!

:wink:

Is it a sin to accuse Jesus of being a glutton and and drunk because of WHO he was or was there a valid reason for being called a glutton and a drunk?

 

[reznwerks]

read

Here Jesus is described as being racist in Matth 15:22-28 and Mark 7:25-30
Look at how Jesus reacts to the woman who is pleading for help with her daughter. He says that he came for the Jew only and not the gentile and it was not right for him to "to take the children's bread and to cast it to dogs"So in Jesus' mind if you were and infidel you were a sub human. The woman then rebuked Jesus and he changed his mind.

Read and learn.
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qcrude.html

:wink:

I don't know what you are referencing but it pretty much confirmed what I posted. Jesus' first reaction was to ignore her based on being an infidel. That is racism plain and simple.

 

[reznwerks]

No Jesus never sinned.He is the only man that lived on earth around people was temp by satan,went through trials and tribulations,but He never sinned. :D

Did you repeat that over and over a thousand times or did you look at what the bible said and come to your own conclusion?