Was Jesus His own Father?

[Dave Slayer]

Was Jesus His own Father? Some Christians believe that the Godhead is just Jesus alone, but that He is also a Father, and the Holy Spirit. But the question is, what is Biblical?

Also, I find this verse troubling for Modalism.

Mark 13:32 (KJV)
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Jesus is the Son. Obviously, He can't also be the Father otherwise He would know the day and hour.

 

[Ormly]

Jesus didn't exist until He was born. Jesus doesn't become God until all things are "summed up in Him". At that time He will return to Earth as God and the Holy Ghost and the Word all in Divine flesh called the Son of man. . .

 

[Orion]

Ormly, . . . "the Son" existed with God, . . .as says Christian Doctrine, . . . so just because the earthly name wasn't given until the child was born, doesn't mean that there wasn't "the son" before. So the question posed still stands.

 

[Ormly]

Ormly, . . . "the Son" existed with God, . . .as says Christian Doctrine, . . . so just because the earthly name wasn't given until the child was born, doesn't mean that there wasn't "the son" before. So the question posed still stands.

So then who was His mother? You can't say because He was only the son in the "reality" of God's plan.; He existed IN God. The "actuality" of it didn't come about until the fulness of time was complete. Then God "sent" His son of His Heart, into the world. Does that makes sense?

 

[Shamwow]

So, Christianity is a monotheistic AND polytheistic religion ?

 

[Free]

No, Christianity is strictly monotheistic, which the doctrine of the Trinity upholds.

 

[Alabaster]

No, Jesus is not the Father. He is the Son--always was and always will be. He is part of the Three-in One Godhead.

 

[francisdesales]

So then who was His mother? You can't say because He was only the son in the "reality" of God's plan.; He existed IN God. The "actuality" of it didn't come about until the fulness of time was complete. Then God "sent" His son of His Heart, into the world. Does that makes sense?

God doesn't generate via sex, so there is no need for a female (and God is not strictly speaking a male). The word "Father" and "Son" speak of a relationship and it isn't necessary to speak of sexual union to discuss the concept of the idea. For example, at the cell level, we can see a 'father' and 'son' cell in that the former begets the later without necessity of having a third cell present to bring about the generation.

The problem is that people get confused and relate "Father" and "Son" to human terms without realizing that this is merely a means of describing a relationship - that the Father generates the Son, not vice versus. By making this anthropomorphic, people get confused while trying to make the Father's generation of the Son as if it was a human action, requiring a mother...

The "actuality" of this relationship existed as soon "as" the Father generated the Son - which was "before" time and creation.

The sending of the Son speaks of the Divine Economy, not the Generation of the Son "before" time.

Regards

 

[Orion]

I don't know how we can know ANY god/deity when only generalized human characteristics can be placed on it, . . and even then, it is hardly accurate on any level. Then you throw in the whole bizaare concept of the Trinity, another example of humans trying to understand based upon a near paradox, . . . .

People wonder why I have such a hard time "having a relationship with God", . . and this is a big part of the problem. I have no idea who I'd even HAVE a "relationship" with, even if I would be able to recognize it, if it happened. It isn't as though I openly reject. I just honestly don't understand it NEAR enough to "embrace it".

 

[whirlwind]

I saved the following from another forum. It answers the question this thread asks. The poster was none other than....Cornelius!


Revelation 1:7-8 Jesus was the Almighty.
Genesis 17:1 And the Almighty was God.

John 8:58 Jesus was the "I Am"
Exodus 3:14 and the "I Am" was God

Acts 3:14 Jesus was the "HOLY ONE"
Isaiah 43:15 and the "HOLY ONE" was God

John 8:24 Jesus is the "I Am He"
Isaiah 43:10 and the "I Am He" was God

Revelation 22:13 Jesus is the "First and the Last"
Isaiah 44:6 and the "First and the Last" was God

I Corinthians 10:4 Jesus was "The Rock"
Psalm 18:31 and "The Rock" was God

II Corinthians 11:2 Jesus was the "One HUSBAND"
Jeremiah 31:32 and the "One HUSBAND" was God

Matthew 23:8 Jesus was the "ONE MASTER"
Malachi 1:6 and the "ONE MASTER" was God

John 10:16 Jesus was the "One SHEPHERD"
Isaiah 40:11 and the "ONE SHEPHERD" was God

Acts 4:12 Jesus was the "ONE SAVIOR"
Isaiah 45:21 and the "ONE SAVIOR" was God

Luke 1:68 Jesus was the "ONE REDEEMER"
Isaiah 41:14 and the "ONE REDEEMER" was God

Revelation 19:16 Jesus was "LORD OF LORDS
1 Timothy 6:14 Jesus was "LORD OF LORDS
Deuteronomy 10:17 and the "LORD OF LORDS" was God

Philippians 2:10 Every knee must bow to Jesus
Isaiah 45:23 Every knee must bow to God

John 1: 3-10 Jesus was the "ONE CREATOR"
Isaiah 44:24 The Lord your Redeemer was the "ONE CREATOR"
Genesis 1:1 and the "ONE CREATOR" was God

John 1:49 Jesus was "KING OF ISRAEL"
Isaiah 44:6 and the "KING OF ISRAEL" was God

 

[Cornelius]

I was looking for this post

 

[Sparkey]

I don't know how we can know ANY god/deity when only generalized human characteristics can be placed on it, . . and even then, it is hardly accurate on any level. Then you through in the who bizaare concept of the Trinity, another example of humans trying to understand based upon a near paradox, . . . .

People wonder why I have such a hard time "having a relationship with God", . . and this is a big part of the problem. I have no idea who I'd even HAVE a "relationship" with, even if I would be able to recognize it, if it happened. It isn't as though I openly reject. I just honestly don't understand it NEAR enough to "embrace it".

Didn't this argument (about semantics) start in the 2nd Century?

I was raised as a Catholic (it wasn't my fault - my parents didn't ask me about it) and led to a Non-Denominational (Pentecostal) church later. Both churches failed me. Catholics because of their emphasis of tradition over the Word of God, and the later church because it became a cult and fell into sin. Neither church "hurt" me. Both taught me. I honestly believe that the Holy Spirit works in these institutions for the good of them who are called out of sin.

I am currently unchurched. I miss fellowship and that is a crucial part of what needs to be restored to me, what has been stolen from me, by the enemy and my unfaithfulness.

So maybe you can see that there are parts of me that need to be healed. I like Ephesians chapter 4 here. Christians who listen to this well tend to minister to me well. The truly "bizarre" thing is to watch as Christians begin to sharpen their swords in playfulness (for iron is indeed sharpened against iron) but then the flesh enters and full out melee combat ensues. This is not how it ought to be.

It's almost comical, it would be if it weren't so sad. We are so often directly commanded to love the brethren, so often told to "come together" in unity, yes? I'm not trying to excuse myself here and am as much to blame as any other -- but as I get older it is Peace that I need to remind myself (almost constantly) to "strive" for.

If we were to start by focusing on our common enemy...

• Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
  Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

And concentrate ceaselessly on standing together
(that's my position on "Oneness", by the way - it means Unity)
Then...

• Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
  Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The only vital part to the discussion about God (like we can ever have a chance to fully know Him while we continue to fight amongst ourselves, sheesh!) and Jesus is that our Savior did indeed come in the flesh. John boldly declared in the Gospel that Jesus was the word (logos), the word became flesh and dwelt amongst us. I think he continues to dwell in the midst of his saints but would not hold myself up as the first evidence of this. But take a look around here - there are Christians who inspire me to believe in Jesus just because of the love they show. I've seen it.

John the Apostle (a builder sent by God is what the word means) wrote two epistles later and both contain similar statements but he went further than that and said that any spirit (or man) who comes to you and denies that Jesus was born in the flesh is antichrist. There were antichrist spirits at that time too. This is a "real" issue today and I don't make light of it at all, but in the same time it is crucial that Christians of all "flavors" come to understand that we are called to One Faith.

Jesus said, "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid." This again was written through the Apostle John. He is one of my favorite writers through which the Holy Spirit flowed. Isaiah is a close second.

I'll close by saying that I do understand that it is a Priest's duty to preserve knowledge and I know in my heart that is what Christians are doing as they strive for the truth. Why did Jesus say we had two commandments anyway? Does he think it's that simple?!?

Okay, closing here with Scripture - another "near paradox" ( O.o ) a prophecy about prophets:

And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
But he shall say, "I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth."

And one shall say unto him, "What are these wounds in thine hands?" Then he shall answer, "Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends."

Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

 

[whirlwind]

I was looking for this post

I just saw it yesterday on the other forum...I loved it and saved it for future reference....who knew it would be the very next day. :yes

 

[Cornelius]

John the Apostle (a builder sent by God is what the word means) wrote two epistles later and both contain similar statements but he went further than that and said that any spirit (or man) who comes to you and denies that Jesus was born in the flesh is antichrist. There were antichrist spirits at that time too. This is a "real" issue today and I don't make light of it at all, but in the same time it is crucial that Christians of all "flavors" come to understand that we are called to One Faith.

Nice post .

Just something interesting and important. It changed the way I saw the gospel when I saw this. Its about the scripture you mention:

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are gone forth into the world, even they that confess not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

I use to think that this meant, that Jesus came in the flesh of a man, when He was born through Mary. But then , when we look at the word "cometh" in the Greek, we see that its actually talking about Him coming in OUR flesh. The tense of that word is present-continues so He has been coming and is still coming in the flesh of the believer at this moment in time, and that scripture also points out that those who deny this , is ........antichrist. Denying this, is not just a verbal denial, but a denial by manifestation. Meaning: Christians (meaning Christ-in-you) must also show forth the Christ that is in them through faith.

 

[Captain Sarcastic]

Was Jesus His own Father? Some Christians believe that the Godhead is just Jesus alone, but that He is also a Father, and the Holy Spirit. But the question is, what is Biblical?

Also, I find this verse troubling for Modalism.

Mark 13:32 (KJV)
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Jesus is the Son. Obviously, He can't also be the Father otherwise He would know the day and hour.

cough*modalism*cough

 

[Captain Sarcastic]

So, Christianity is a monotheistic AND polytheistic religion ?

You make a common error. Christianity is montheistically trinitarian. :halo

 

[follower of Christ]

I don't know how we can know ANY god/deity when only generalized human characteristics can be placed on it, . . and even then, it is hardly accurate on any level. Then you through in the who bizaare concept of the Trinity, another example of humans trying to understand based upon a near paradox, . . . .

So if something is beyond your comprehension or mans fallible, pitiful sense of 'logic' then it cannot be reality ?
Thank goodness not everyone thinks like this or we'd still be in the dark ages.

People wonder why I have such a hard time "having a relationship with God", . . and this is a big part of the problem. I have no idea who I'd even HAVE a "relationship" with, even if I would be able to recognize it, if it happened. It isn't as though I openly reject. I just honestly don't understand it NEAR enough to "embrace it".

You have a relationship with God who is the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit.
One sandwich with two slices of bread and a piece of meat. It takes all three to make the sandwich 'whole' but it IS ONE sandwich.

 

[Paidion]

Jesus is the Son. Obviously, He can't also be the Father otherwise He would know the day and hour.

I am not a modalist, but I have modalist friends and I have read modalist literature.

Modalists would say that the one and only Divine Individual (God), born on earth as "the Son", had human limitations. As a man, He did not know the day and hour that He would return. But as the Father (pure spirit without the limitations of humanity), He was omniscient, and knew everything, including the time of His return.

The Modalists whom I know, believe that God's name is "Jesus" ("Yahweh saves"), but that He didn't exist as "the Son" until He was conceived in Mary's womb.

 

[MarkT]

Jesus belongs to or came from the Father. That's why he is 'of' God - the Son 'of' God. Also the Spirit is 'of' God, the Word is 'of' God, the name is 'of' God. You can say it of the Son and the Spirit but you can't say it of the Father. He is God.

 

[Orion]

So if something is beyond your comprehension or mans fallible, pitiful sense of 'logic' then it cannot be reality ?
Thank goodness not everyone thinks like this or we'd still be in the dark ages.

I don't understand the "dark ages" comment. Our society didn't advance by blindly following what it cannot fully understand, but by the process of scientific experimentation.