handy said:
Very well, mondar. Perhaps we're getting bogged down in a morass of semantics, but I think that it's profitable to be clear on the definitions of these words:
Faith and Saving Faith (which I believe I addressed in my previous post)
Grace and Saving Grace
Please, help me understand what you mean regarding distinguishing between the doctrines of Grace and saving grace.
{To Calvinists-----> In this post I will be using the phrase "doctrines of grace." Do not be confused, I am not talking about TULIP, but other doctrines of grace---IE justification by faith alone.}
{Also, I wish to apologize for using the wrong reference in previous posts. The proper text is
Galatians 5:4 and not 5:6. No wonder no one knows what I am talking about, no one knows the proper text I am referring to.}
The epistle of Galatians is about the doctrines of Grace such as justification by faith without works. To add the works of the Law, or any works would be another gospel (Galatians 1:9). If you add our own righteousness to Christs righteousness, then we have set aside grace, and Christ died in vain (Gal 2:21). The Galatians may have once believed the gospel of grace (justification by faith without works) when Paul first came to them. Then they forsook the gospel of grace by believing that the something other then faith was neccessary for salvation (currcumcision or the law). In attempting to add too grace, they fell from a proper doctrinal understanding of salvation by grace alone. Galatians 5:4 is talking about this change in the attitudes of the Galatians concerning the doctrines of Grace. The context of Galatians is not a loss of salvation, but a loss of proper doctrine in the Church of Galatia. It was in the doctrinal sense that the Galatians fell from Grace. Paul was simply writing to say that the must return to the proper doctrine of justification by faith without works.
Notice that the phrase "justification" occurs right in the verse (5:4). Justification defined is --- the act of God the judge whereby he bangs his gavel and pronounces the sinner acquited of the charge of sin on the basis of Christs shed blood. God never acquited us because of our own works (no matter if the law or cirrcumcision or any other works), but because of the works of Christ. To take any other doctrinal position on justification is to "fall from Grace" doctrinally.
Notice the doctrinal language in 5:2. If you are circumcised, Christ will not profit you. If taken to refer to salvation, then only female Americans can be saved. If taken to refer to the doctrines that cirrcumcision does not assist in justification, then the verse makes more sense.
In verse 3 Paul is not making an appeal for men to keep the Mosaic Law, but for men to consider a doctrinal truth.
To have grace fall from us, I am referring to the loss of salvation, and not referring to a fall from a proper doctrinal position.
Handy, I hope this helps. If one believes that it is the power of Christ that keeps us saved...
Jude 24 24 Now to Him who is able to keep you[a] from stumbling,
And to present you faultless
Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,
I do not believe anyone is capable of keeping their own salvation. However, the savior that saved me, is able also to keep me saved.
Well, Handy, even if you reject my position, I hope it is more clear.
