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Was Satan the worship leader in heaven

jgredline

Member
Ok
There are many who believe that Satan was the worship leader in heaven. I happen to believe that indeed he was. Now I am not really a music lover, mostly because I am mostly deaf, but it seems to me that Music creates more divisions in churches than anything else.
What are your thoughts??

Georges, I would in particular like to hear what you have to say?

Blessings Jg
 
Well I dont know about a Worship leader, but I do know that God created Satan to serve the purpose that he currently serves.

In regards to Music.... all things come from God..... any division caused by Music in Churches are just silly human disagreements that have absolutley no bearing WHATSOEVER... on a persons right standing with God, even unto weather they even attend church or not.

Some people will tell you that Walking by the Spirit is acting in a certain spiritual manner.... not so.

The same people will probably also tell you that Sex Drugs and Rock & Roll is walking after the Flesh.... also not so.

Grace and Peace to you
 
I think music comes from God, not Satan.

I have asked this question many times and no one can seem to answer it: Is Lucifer actually Satan? If so, where is it written that they are the same. Isaiah says that Lucifer fell, but it does not say that Lucifer is Satan. Most people say it is common knowledge, but I would like some scriptual basis for this.
 
jgredline said:
Ok
There are many who believe that Satan was the worship leader in heaven. I happen to believe that indeed he was. Now I am not really a music lover, mostly because I am mostly deaf, but it seems to me that Music creates more divisions in churches than anything else.
What are your thoughts??

Georges, I would in particular like to hear what you have to say?

Blessings Jg

uh oh...... :) .....I admit I have out of the box theology, but why do I feel like I'm kissing my sister when I see a request like that.... :-D Kind of like the cartoon where the jungle explorer comes across a tribe of cannibals. The cannibals are standing around a big black cooking pot obviously preparing food. The explorer asks the cannibals "what's for dinner?", and they reply, "you are".... :-D

Got a story...short I hope....

I was a Lutheran for many years, when I moved to Texas, I began questioning the doctrines of the Lutheran chruch...at that time I got hooked on S. Baptist Quartet Music...(still think that it is the best, The Cathedrals rule.... :) ). A few years back I went to my first SBQ concert, there was a lot of Hand Claping with the music and more standing ovations than the Pres gets at a State of the Union address.

Being a Lutheran....funeral dirge music was the norm....Attending the S Baptist Church for a while introduced me to praise music...which I totally enjoy. I didn't know what to do at the SBQ Music Concert....one thing for sure, you could tell who the Lutherans were in the hall becuse they were (myself included) the only ones sitting on their hands....I can remember wondering, "Is this sacreligious to clap and show joy during religious songs?".

I think praise songs are great....

As far as Satan....don't know if he was a worship leader or not....I know he was an angel of high ranking though...

I think misinterpretation of scripture creates the most divisions. Even though there are divisions in Jewish theology, there aren't that many. Too bad Christianity can't make that claim....
 
ChristineES said:
I have asked this question many times and no one can seem to answer it: Is Lucifer actually Satan?

Jesus calls himself lucifer. It's not a name, it's a complimentary metaphor.

Isaiah calls the King of Babylon lucifer, sometimes translated as "morning star". Because of the colorful language of this morning star being cast out of the Heavens (metaphoric sky) and into Hell (metaphoric grave), people assume that Isaiah is actually talking about Satan. The language may seem too grand for a mere earthly king, but that could just be the style of writing.
 
Ezekiel 28:13-15 (King James Version)


13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Isaiah 14:11-15 (King James Version)
11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Yes he was the music wordship leader in heaven, and the demons fights us musicians real hard' why because we are the worship leaders here on earth. Satan was created with musical instruments built into him.
 
ChristineES said:
I have asked this question many times and no one can seem to answer it: Is Lucifer actually Satan? If so, where is it written that they are the same. Isaiah says that Lucifer fell, but it does not say that Lucifer is Satan. Most people say it is common knowledge, but I would like some scriptual basis for this.

If satan and lucifer were one in the same, then I am wondering why John would not have said so when he wrote this verse:

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years...
 
Lewis W said:
Ezekiel 28:13-15 (King James Version)


13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Isaiah 14:11-15 (King James Version)
11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Yes he was the music wordship leader in heaven, and the demons fights us musicians real hard' why because we are the worship leaders here on earth. Satan was created with musical instruments built into him.


Tabret -Ezekiel 28:13
Also known as a timbrel, tambourine, or
tabor, a tabret was an instrument used in
Bible days. Tabrets are small drums, often
adorned with cymbals and decorative
ribbons. Tabrets are still used today and
are often referred to as praise hoops.


Pipe-Ezekiel 28:13
Pipe (Sa1 10:5; Kg1 1:40; Isa 5:12; Isa 30:29). The Hebrew word halil, so rendered, means "bored through," and is the name given to various kinds of wind instruments, as the fife, flute, Pan-pipes, etc. In Amo 6:5 this word is rendered "instrument of music." This instrument is mentioned also in the New Testament (Mat 11:17; Co1 14:7). It is still used in Palestine, and is, as in ancient times, made of different materials, as reed, copper, bronze, etc.

Viol- as in Isaiah 14:11
A large harp, its shape and number of strings being uncertain. The same Heb. word is also translated psaltery.

So as you can see Satan was created with instruments inside him.
 
Lewis
I agree with you. I know this is a reason why many Christian artist are under constant spiritual attack. I will go to WORD and put down my thoughts on this. I will post here before i post it up on my site. I know the bible is not very clear on this topic, but it is the only interpretation that makes sense to me. If anyone has a better one, lets hear it.
Blessings to you.
 
jgredline said:
Lewis
I agree with you. I know this is a reason why many Christian artist are under constant spiritual attack. I will go to WORD and put down my thoughts on this. I will post here before i post it up on my site. I know the bible is not very clear on this topic, but it is the only interpretation that makes sense to me. If anyone has a better one, lets hear it.
Blessings to you.

Read this.
http://www.missionchurch.com/RaiseStand ... ge0003.htm
 
Spirit Driven said:
Well I dont know about a Worship leader, but I do know that God created Satan to serve the purpose that he currently serves.

In regards to Music.... all things come from God..... any division caused by Music in Churches are just silly human disagreements that have absolutley no bearing WHATSOEVER... on a persons right standing with God, even unto weather they even attend church or not.

Some people will tell you that Walking by the Spirit is acting in a certain spiritual manner.... not so.

The same people will probably also tell you that Sex Drugs and Rock & Roll is walking after the Flesh.... also not so.

Grace and Peace to you

I think that one should have at least a basic understanding of ANYTHING that they offer an opinion on. You have obviously offered an opinion on something that you know absolutely NOTHING about. This is unwise, for there may be those that might accept your offering to their demise. Let me explain.

Music is one of the MOST powerful forces on this planet. It has the ability to set fashion, morals, unrest, fads, create revolutions, cause the listeners to kill, etc.......... As words are the food of the mind, music IS the food of the soul. For anyone to deny this is to simply refuse to seek any understanding of it.

And, when I speak of music, I speak NOT ONLY of the lyrics to songs, but the MUSIC ITSELF. There are many that choose to deny this for the simple sake of themselves and what they 'like'. Oh well. There are those that will defend smoking, drugs, alcohol, violence, illicit sex, etc,,,, in the same light.

If one does simply a cursory study of the history of music, one quickly comes to the conclusion that music is SO powerful that many cultures throughout history have actually banned certain types of music or the altering of the types of music that existed. WHY? They realized the influence that music had on the listeners.

If we trace music through the culture of this country alone, (and our history is relatively brief), we can see the music OFTEN setting the moral atmosphere of the times. It becomes obvious that music can influence the attitudes that the people have held towards the government, religion, drugs, sex, money, violence, etc.......

How many times have you simply heard the first few notes of a song and your attitude or demeanor changed INSTANTLY? How many times have you found yourself taking on the 'flavor' of the music that you listen to? If your answer to these questions is NEVER, you are simply unable to be honest with even yourself or you DON'T listen to music.

Now, with these things in mind, is it not OBVIOUS the power that music may have over the listener?

Alister Crowley, the father of modern Satanism, has been WIDELY accepted by MANY musicians of our time. The Beatles, Led Zepplin, Ozzy Osborn just to name a few. These have closely followed the teachings of Alister whose 'catch phrase' happened to be, 'do as thou wilt shall be ALL the law'. You know, kinda like, 'just be yourself', 'let it all hang out', 'if it feels good DO IT'.

If we examine the music offered by those that chose to follow his teachings, we see that this message is prevalent in MUCH of it.

You know, at one point, one MUST make a decision. That decision is: 'Do I want to follow God and be obedient to His will', or 'do I want to follow MY will and do what pleases me'. When this decision is made, MUCH becomes VERY clear ONE way or the other. If the decision is to follow God, then one MUST follow the Spirit. If one chooses to follow what pleases themselves, ANYTHING goes and quite often there are TONS of excuses to make it 'seem' legitimate.

Music DOES have the ability to influence those that partake in it's ability to 'move' the spirit. As stated so eloquently by Led Zepplin in a song that most are familiar with: 'the piper's calling YOU to 'join him'. Don't you 'get it'? 'Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run, there's still time to change the road you're on'. Never was there a BIGGER lie offered to the masses than this. For, neither you or I have ANY idea what tomorrow will bring. So, there may CERTAINLY NOT be time to do anything tomorrow or the next day. Such messages are damning in that they offer excuses for the listener to follow that have NO true offering in The Word.

MEC

MEC
 
Oh, as a 'rock and roll pup' of the 70's and 80's, I am well aware of the music of both decades.

Upon my acceptance of Christ into my heart, I began a rigorous study of the history of music. What I have offered in the post above is the accumulation of about ten years of study. Many may and probably will disagree. But in my opinion and in my understanding this is just another sign of man's insistance upon 'living in the dark'. Can good fruit come from a bad tree? Does anyone believe that the churches of Satan DO NOT have their music of worship?

And let us examine the first mention in the Bible concerning musical instruments. Tubalcain I believe was the name of the first creator of musical instruments. And of what lineage was he? Not saying that ALL music is subversive or evil. Just offering a warning to those that choose to believe that NONE of it IS.

The simple FACT that there is not a one that will read my post that can deny this is enough evidence for anyone that chooses light over darkness; how many times have you caught yourself singing or humming a little ditty from a commercial? Can't you see how powerful this medium of worship can truly be? And for each that is willing to honestly answer this question; how odd that what happened was TOTALLY BEYOND OUR CONTROL. Now, some may be harmless. But even the simply tunes that are used in advertising can have SUCH a profound affect on our subconcious, what about that which is down right subversive? Are you beginning to 'see' now?

MEC
 
Great insight, Imagican.
Ever wondered why they really send baby home from the hospital with a Mozart CD? Although I haven't researched it I would bet theres a spirit behind the music that has nothing to do with 'making baby smarter'. (just something i've always been suspicious of)
 
Imagican said:
Spirit Driven said:
Well I dont know about a Worship leader, but I do know that God created Satan to serve the purpose that he currently serves.

In regards to Music.... all things come from God..... any division caused by Music in Churches are just silly human disagreements that have absolutley no bearing WHATSOEVER... on a persons right standing with God, even unto weather they even attend church or not.

Some people will tell you that Walking by the Spirit is acting in a certain spiritual manner.... not so.

The same people will probably also tell you that Sex Drugs and Rock & Roll is walking after the Flesh.... also not so.

Grace and Peace to you

I think that one should have at least a basic understanding of ANYTHING that they offer an opinion on. You have obviously offered an opinion on something that you know absolutely NOTHING about. This is unwise, for there may be those that might accept your offering to their demise. Let me explain.

Music is one of the MOST powerful forces on this planet. It has the ability to set fashion, morals, unrest, fads, create revolutions, cause the listeners to kill, etc.......... As words are the food of the mind, music IS the food of the soul. For anyone to deny this is to simply refuse to seek any understanding of it.

And, when I speak of music, I speak NOT ONLY of the lyrics to songs, but the MUSIC ITSELF. There are many that choose to deny this for the simple sake of themselves and what they 'like'. Oh well. There are those that will defend smoking, drugs, alcohol, violence, illicit sex, etc,,,, in the same light.

If one does simply a cursory study of the history of music, one quickly comes to the conclusion that music is SO powerful that many cultures throughout history have actually banned certain types of music or the altering of the types of music that existed. WHY? They realized the influence that music had on the listeners.

If we trace music through the culture of this country alone, (and our history is relatively brief), we can see the music OFTEN setting the moral atmosphere of the times. It becomes obvious that music can influence the attitudes that the people have held towards the government, religion, drugs, sex, money, violence, etc.......

How many times have you simply heard the first few notes of a song and your attitude or demeanor changed INSTANTLY? How many times have you found yourself taking on the 'flavor' of the music that you listen to? If your answer to these questions is NEVER, you are simply unable to be honest with even yourself or you DON'T listen to music.

Now, with these things in mind, is it not OBVIOUS the power that music may have over the listener?

Alister Crowley, the father of modern Satanism, has been WIDELY accepted by MANY musicians of our time. The Beatles, Led Zepplin, Ozzy Osborn just to name a few. These have closely followed the teachings of Alister whose 'catch phrase' happened to be, 'do as thou wilt shall be ALL the law'. You know, kinda like, 'just be yourself', 'let it all hang out', 'if it feels good DO IT'.

If we examine the music offered by those that chose to follow his teachings, we see that this message is prevalent in MUCH of it.

You know, at one point, one MUST make a decision. That decision is: 'Do I want to follow God and be obedient to His will', or 'do I want to follow MY will and do what pleases me'. When this decision is made, MUCH becomes VERY clear ONE way or the other. If the decision is to follow God, then one MUST follow the Spirit. If one chooses to follow what pleases themselves, ANYTHING goes and quite often there are TONS of excuses to make it 'seem' legitimate.

Music DOES have the ability to influence those that partake in it's ability to 'move' the spirit. As stated so eloquently by Led Zepplin in a song that most are familiar with: 'the piper's calling YOU to 'join him'. Don't you 'get it'? 'Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run, there's still time to change the road you're on'. Never was there a BIGGER lie offered to the masses than this. For, neither you or I have ANY idea what tomorrow will bring. So, there may CERTAINLY NOT be time to do anything tomorrow or the next day. Such messages are damning in that they offer excuses for the listener to follow that have NO true offering in The Word.

MEC

MEC

Mec
Very powerful!!
Thnaks and blessings.
jg
 
Imagican said:
Spirit Driven said:
Well I dont know about a Worship leader, but I do know that God created Satan to serve the purpose that he currently serves.

In regards to Music.... all things come from God..... any division caused by Music in Churches are just silly human disagreements that have absolutley no bearing WHATSOEVER... on a persons right standing with God, even unto weather they even attend church or not.

Some people will tell you that Walking by the Spirit is acting in a certain spiritual manner.... not so.

The same people will probably also tell you that Sex Drugs and Rock & Roll is walking after the Flesh.... also not so.

Grace and Peace to you

I think that one should have at least a basic understanding of ANYTHING that they offer an opinion on. You have obviously offered an opinion on something that you know absolutely NOTHING about. This is unwise, for there may be those that might accept your offering to their demise. Let me explain.

Music is one of the MOST powerful forces on this planet. It has the ability to set fashion, morals, unrest, fads, create revolutions, cause the listeners to kill, etc.......... As words are the food of the mind, music IS the food of the soul. For anyone to deny this is to simply refuse to seek any understanding of it.

And, when I speak of music, I speak NOT ONLY of the lyrics to songs, but the MUSIC ITSELF. There are many that choose to deny this for the simple sake of themselves and what they 'like'. Oh well. There are those that will defend smoking, drugs, alcohol, violence, illicit sex, etc,,,, in the same light.

If one does simply a cursory study of the history of music, one quickly comes to the conclusion that music is SO powerful that many cultures throughout history have actually banned certain types of music or the altering of the types of music that existed. WHY? They realized the influence that music had on the listeners.

If we trace music through the culture of this country alone, (and our history is relatively brief), we can see the music OFTEN setting the moral atmosphere of the times. It becomes obvious that music can influence the attitudes that the people have held towards the government, religion, drugs, sex, money, violence, etc.......

How many times have you simply heard the first few notes of a song and your attitude or demeanor changed INSTANTLY? How many times have you found yourself taking on the 'flavor' of the music that you listen to? If your answer to these questions is NEVER, you are simply unable to be honest with even yourself or you DON'T listen to music.

Now, with these things in mind, is it not OBVIOUS the power that music may have over the listener?

Alister Crowley, the father of modern Satanism, has been WIDELY accepted by MANY musicians of our time. The Beatles, Led Zepplin, Ozzy Osborn just to name a few. These have closely followed the teachings of Alister whose 'catch phrase' happened to be, 'do as thou wilt shall be ALL the law'. You know, kinda like, 'just be yourself', 'let it all hang out', 'if it feels good DO IT'.

If we examine the music offered by those that chose to follow his teachings, we see that this message is prevalent in MUCH of it.

You know, at one point, one MUST make a decision. That decision is: 'Do I want to follow God and be obedient to His will', or 'do I want to follow MY will and do what pleases me'. When this decision is made, MUCH becomes VERY clear ONE way or the other. If the decision is to follow God, then one MUST follow the Spirit. If one chooses to follow what pleases themselves, ANYTHING goes and quite often there are TONS of excuses to make it 'seem' legitimate.

Music DOES have the ability to influence those that partake in it's ability to 'move' the spirit. As stated so eloquently by Led Zepplin in a song that most are familiar with: 'the piper's calling YOU to 'join him'. Don't you 'get it'? 'Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run, there's still time to change the road you're on'. Never was there a BIGGER lie offered to the masses than this. For, neither you or I have ANY idea what tomorrow will bring. So, there may CERTAINLY NOT be time to do anything tomorrow or the next day. Such messages are damning in that they offer excuses for the listener to follow that have NO true offering in The Word.

MEC

MEC

My Freind you need to walk by the Spirit.... Who are you, according too
from my home site.....

http://www.gospelfortoday.org/jteaching ... dingto.htm

Grace and Peace to you
 
And what you have offered here is NOTHING but contradiction of the Word. Yes, we have been 'set free'. But free TO SIN? I think not. Free FROM sin through redemption, NOT free TO sin in order to 'start over' each and every moment. Ours is to GROW in Christ, not to remain babes.

I am in total oposition to such liberal teachings. I have noticed many 'new age' type churches that have been springing up in these 'last times'. It comes as NO surprise. Those that will twist the Word into their 'own' doctrines is NOTHING new. And much of what they offer is EXACTLY what I tried to point out in my previous post. That there will be those that refuse to admit or follow the 'truth' is simply 'proof' that Satan is alive and well and working harder than ever to secure those that WILL be his.

Am I to 'suppose' from the statement that you offered that it's OK to use drugs, drink to excess, comit fornication, steal, lie, cheat, etc...............?
For to condone one bad behavior by offering 'freedom' is to indicate that ALL negative behavior is OK. WRONG. We don't sin ALL THE MORE simply because we have the gift of forgiveness. For to take on such an attitude or understanding is to say it's OK to put Christ to the cross OVER AND OVER again simply for the sake of 'self'. Hardly, my friends. No love there for ANYTHING other than 'SELF'. Not what Christ came to teach. Sorry.

And to live 'Through the Spirit' is NOT to 'try' The Spirit. It's to offer honor to The Spirit by ACTUALLY following, not simply accepting it's gifts without learning or understanding.

MEC
 
Spirit Driven
I don't think you should be refering people to that web site http://www.gospelfortoday.org as In the 30 minutes or so I have spent on it or so, there is ALOT of false teaching, including denying the deity of Jesus Christ and it even says that ALL MEN WILL BE SAVED and it speaks of universal salvation and then tries to disguise it by saying through the death and resurection of Jesus Christ phrased in such a way to make it sound right.

Stay away from that site. I will spend some more time on it and read the articles and will exposite more on it..

Mec, your doing a great Job.
blessings. Jg
 
Spirit Driven,

While the article that you offered 'rings' of truth, it is fraught with deception. Yes, for those that attempt to 'better themselves' through works, they decieve themselves. But there is a 'way' and a 'truth' and to follow it does not attempt to 'work' oneself into heaven. It is simply to CONFORM to the behavior Christ offered as example. Done THROUGH Christ or The Spirit and therefore NOT an attempt to DO ANYTHING other than allow Christ to LIVE in their hearts. And WHEN this happens, one IS conformed. No longer apt to do that which is unseemly simply for the sake of 'self'.

This is a 'prime' example of how a bunch of truth with a tad of lie can be turned into a COMPLETE deception. Christ DID come for ALL men, but, and this is actually a BIG BUT, this statement in NO way offers that ALL will accept the 'gift'.

MEC
 
The same people will probably also tell you that Sex Drugs and Rock & Roll is walking after the Flesh.... also not so.

I'm sorry, but I must most emphatically disagree. If sinful hedonism is a form of spiritual grace then I must have the wrong the Holy Spirit in me.
 
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