Was Satan the worship leader in heaven

[jgredline]

Spirit Driven,

This is a 'prime' example of how a bunch of truth with a tad of lie can be turned into a COMPLETE deception. Christ DID come for ALL men, but, and this is actually a BIG BUT, this statement in NO way offers that ALL will accept the 'gift'.

MEC

Mec
This is exactly what I was saying about that website. Good Catch...
Red flags

 

[cyberjosh]

Great insight, Imagican.
Ever wondered why they really send baby home from the hospital with a Mozart CD? Although I haven't researched it I would bet theres a spirit behind the music that has nothing to do with 'making baby smarter'. (just something i've always been suspicious of)

Uh....well..... not to say that isn't possible, but the case would be highly circumstantial. A baby under a Christian household at the very least is blessed, and thus I believe protected. You are tapping into a deep question which may not even be answerable from a human perspective. I do not believe that music is inherently evil, it is what reaction that it stimulates in the listener (though I do believe that lyrics when added to music effect its nature substantially). But what fleshly appeal that Mozart would have to a baby who doesn't even have a fully developed consciousness is questionable.

But I'm not even going to attempt to go there. I agree alot with what Imagican said, that you must guard yourself against evil influences of sinful music, but obviously music can also be used to praise and exalt God. For such moral questions as this I always try to appeal to one's motives and heart, their concience in effect as the Holy Spirit convicts it.

 

[John the Baptist]

Ezekiel 28:13-15 (King James Version)


13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

****
John here:
Lewis, you seem to be miles ahead of most here. But you did not say anthing about 'the workmsnship of thy tabrets and thy pipes..'. Also, about being the covering cherub over the Ark wherein are 'still' stored the heavenly Eternal Covenant. Revelation 11:19
And the MERCY SEAT over this Eternal Law
that represents Christ & His Eternal Gospel, which satan now hates with his devilish passion! :

Anyway: I suggest that these are the two places satan now does most of his deceptive work. First, he hates Christ & the Epistle of Christ, which is His very moral fiber. The Godheads Eternal. See 2 Corinthians 3:3's 'letter to us'. Compare Isaiah 42:21 in the K.J. And we see that the devil has done just this very thing in Daniel 7:25 through the catholic anti/Christ
work. And they boast plainly that they have changed the Covenant of God.

Then comes satans best tool from his 'created' talent, that of music. Many Church's of Revelation 17:5 sound like they are right out of the jungle. Man goes by feelings, excitement, & emotion, + a lot of noise! (music?)
If one feels good in church, some think, that it is a blessing from God.

And NO, music is God Ordained, or else Lucifer would not have been created this way. But every thing God has ordained, satan has a counterfiet for. Number one: sun for Sabbath, and number two, 'excitement junk' for worship music.
****

14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Isaiah 14:11-15 (King James Version)
11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Yes he was the music wordship leader in heaven, and the demons fights us musicians real hard' why because we are the worship leaders here on earth. Satan was created with musical instruments built into him.[/color]

 

[Lewis]

Quote:
Great insight, Imagican.
Ever wondered why they really send baby home from the hospital with a Mozart CD? Although I haven't researched it I would bet theres a spirit behind the music that has nothing to do with 'making baby smarter'. (just something i've always been suspicious of)

Because babies can and do' respond to sound, and certain soft Mozart stuff, can sooth them.

 

[destiny]

Quote:
Great insight, Imagican.
Ever wondered why they really send baby home from the hospital with a Mozart CD? Although I haven't researched it I would bet theres a spirit behind the music that has nothing to do with 'making baby smarter'. (just something i've always been suspicious of)

Because babies can and do' respond to sound, and certain soft Mozart stuff, can sooth them.

The CD's are suppose to increase their IQ's.
Mozart was considered a genius therefore they figure baby will benefit by listening to his music.
Most genius' seem to be tormented people, I sure wouldn't want my infant soaking anythig in other than christian songs or simple nursery rhymes.
I also just read that Mozart was a devout freemason. Hmmm

 

[cyberjosh]

Destiny,

I addressed your post above. Would you mind going back and reading it?

God Bless,

Josh

 

[destiny]

Destiny,

I addressed your post above. Would you mind going back and reading it?

God Bless,

Josh

I think satan uses naive people to push his gar-bage', and I believe naive people buy in to this lie. Even christians.
I believe that evil spirits can and do attach themselves to certain objects...people...places.
I think you can unknowingly bring something unkosher into your home and by doing so you open up doorways for the enemy to gain access to your family. Thats why I would be very careful and highly suspicious when hospital nurseries start pushing something like Mozart for a newborn.
God protects those who stay within His boundries ....if we dabble in places we shouldn't (even through lack of discernment) we are opening ourselves up to the enemy.

 

[cyberjosh]

I think satan uses naive people to push his gar-bage', and I believe naive people buy in to this lie.

Are you refering to me?

God protects those who stay within His boundries ....if we dabble in places we shouldn't (even through lack of discernment) we are opening ourselves up to the enemy.

I agree, but you haven't answered my question if Mozart could have some fleshly, sinful appeal to a baby. And for some strange reason you didn't seem to affirm my assertion that music can be used to worship God. Are you anti-music and think that all music is evil or something (I can't picture that)?

Also, out of curiosity, what is your opinion of "redeemed songs" as they are called which are songs that have the tune, rhyme, and rhythm of a known secular song and whose lyrics are changed to Christian lyrics?

 

[Imagican]

Great insight, Imagican.
Ever wondered why they really send baby home from the hospital with a Mozart CD? Although I haven't researched it I would bet theres a spirit behind the music that has nothing to do with 'making baby smarter'. (just something i've always been suspicious of)

Uh....well..... not to say that isn't possible, but the case would be highly circumstantial. A baby under a Christian household at the very least is blessed, and thus I believe protected. You are tapping into a deep question which may not even be answerable from a human perspective. I do not believe that music is inherently evil, it is what reaction that it stimulates in the listener (though I do believe that lyrics when added to music effect its nature substantially). But what fleshly appeal that Mozart would have to a baby who doesn't even have a fully developed consciousness is questionable.

But I'm not even going to attempt to go there. I agree alot with what Imagican said, that you must guard yourself against evil influences of sinful music, but obviously music can also be used to praise and exalt God. For such moral questions as this I always try to appeal to one's motives and heart, their concience in effect as the Holy Spirit convicts it.

Please DON'T misunderstand me. ABSOLUTELY there IS music that is PLEASING to God's ears. When we praise Him through 'truth' and do it in song, I am QUITE sure that He is pleased. We WERE created in His image.

But we must be aware that music DOES have the ability to influence our lives and spirit. When we hear the 'jokes' about one 'selling their soul for rock and roll', I personally beileve that this is NOT far from the 'truth'. What is a 'concert' other than the gathering of 'followers' to 'worship' their 'music gods'?

We KNOW that Satan rewards his followers. And that reward is multiplied manifold times when those that follow him are able to bring others into their fold. Music CERTAINLY has a way of doing 'just that'. Couldjn't tell you how many Ozzy tatoos I've seen, or Van Halen, (remember their first hit? Running with the Devil), AC/DC, etc....... I can't think of a more extreme example of worship than someone permanently scaring their bodies with the 'NAME OF A BAND'. And it's NOT just a name. It's JUST as much an ideal of what they stand for in their music as the members themselves.

I know, I know, more fanatical Christian talk of the 'evils of rock and roll'. That is EXACTLY the attitude that is able to 'set one up' to 'believe in the music'. If that's not 'worship' then I don't know what is.

And one more piece of information before I go. It's NOT the most subversive music that is the MOST dangerous. AC/DC; Highway to Hell is outright blasphemous to a degree that few with understanding would argue. But what about something like this; Whitney Houston had a REALLY big hit with a song entitled, 'Saving all my love for you'. I can remember when it was popular witnessing elderly women in the grocery store singing along to this song. So what, right? WRONG. When one listens to the lyrics they find that this diva is singing about saving her love, (true love, or simply lust?), for a MARRIED MAN. It's this kind of subtle deception and the encouraging of the breaking of God's will that is SO dangerous. Whether we realize, understand or accept the truth, it is a FACT that EVERYTHING that we allow into our lives has SOME KIND OF EFFECT ON US. Our subconcious picks up even the most subtle of outside influence and that, my friends, is EXACTLY how we are able to be manipulted into the acceptance of the world.

MEC

 

[destiny]

Are you refering to me?

No, I wasn't caling you naive, cybershark! But I do think discernment is very much the missing ingredient in christianity as a whole today.

I agree, but you haven't answered my question if Mozart could have some fleshly, sinful appeal to a baby. And for some strange reason you didn't seem to affirm my assertion that music can be used to worship God. Are you anti-music and think that all music is evil or something (I can't picture that)?

I am very much a music lover I assure you. I have no idea if mozart appeals to newborns or not, that isn't the point. It is solely the parents responsibility as to what a baby listens to, IMO. My point was that I wouldn't want my baby listening to mozart, mainly because I personally don't feel right about the spirit behind it.
And yes, lots of music can be used to worship God, even some secular music.
The lyrics and message need to be clear, thats the key.

Also, out of curiosity, what is your opinion of "redeemed songs" as they are called which are songs that have the tune, rhyme, and rhythm of a known secular song and whose lyrics are changed to Christian lyrics?

No problem with that at all

 

[cyberjosh]

Please DON'T misunderstand me. ABSOLUTELY there IS music that is PLEASING to God's ears. When we praise Him through 'truth' and do it in song, I am QUITE sure that He is pleased. We WERE created in His image.

But we must be aware that music DOES have the ability to influence our lives and spirit. When we hear the 'jokes' about one 'selling their soul for rock and roll', I personally beileve that this is NOT far from the 'truth'.

No disagreement here.



P.S. Oh, and thanks for clarifying your position Destiny.


God Bless,

~Josh

 

[jgredline]

Spirit Driven
I have been spending more time on that website you refered some of us to on this thread and its definatly a cult. http://www.gospelfortoday.org/
I would encourage you to remove that website from your favorites and maybe go to crosswalk.com. That would be a good place to start.
Blessings.
Jg

 

[John the Baptist]

'By beholding one becomes changed.' Not just infants!
We are alive! :fadein: (I think?)

Some 'hear', some 'see', smell, taste & feel. We can be changed by doing any or all of these God created Christian things. But... the devil know this, huh?

So: We are told to shun every appearance of evil. Now what do we do?
TV, movies, just all kind of known garbage! Even have Christian folks today tell me that Christ created the fermented wine. Yet He would not touch the stuff when He was dying on the cross. (a sour liquid obtained by fermentation)

---John

 

[Imagican]

Also, out of curiosity, what is your opinion of "redeemed songs" as they are called which are songs that have the tune, rhyme, and rhythm of a known secular song and whose lyrics are changed to Christian lyrics?

Let me offer this:

We KNOW that music goes back beyond our understanding of man's past. We can observe today, ancient music still observed in religious ritual by ancient peoples that have continued in their traditions until the present. Tribes in Africa, Islanders that carried the 'music' with them when taken out of Africa. The maori of Australia, etc.......

I contend that MUSIC, NO, not lyrics ONLY, but MUSIC can be and ACTUALLY is spiritual in it's ENTIRETY. There is NO music that is NOT spiritual. From the beginnings we see that this is EXACTLY what the first music that we encounter was used for; religious ritual. Now where would one suppose that this has EVER changed. Our PERCEPTION maybe, but the FACT that music IS by nature RELIGIOUS has NEVER changed.

Now, we look back and see that MUSIC, sounds without lyrics are MOST LIKELY it's oldest FORM. This being the case, then isn't it obvious that MUSIC itself, (without lyrics), STILL has an effect on the listener.

Case in point; Take AC/DC's 'Highway to Hell'. I don't care WHAT lyrics you were to add to this MUSIC, there is NO way that you could POSSIBLY make the MUSIC Christian. Black Sabbath's 'War Pigs', NO WAY that one could simply add Christian lyrics to this song and have it HONOR God. IMPOSSIBLE.

Have each and every one of us not noticed the difference? When something like 'Highway to Hell' starts playing, it actually brings on an 'evil' flavor in ones heart. I mean LITERALLY, one begins to 'feel' the music in their very chests and it is an 'underhanded feeling'.

Oh, and you know the 'secret' to being a 'rock and roll star' or a 'country western star', or a 'star of ANY SORT'. The secret is NOTHING more, nothing less than WORSHIP. If one devotes themselves to God, this devotion would be realized through WORSHIP. No different than those that are successful in this world. The answer IS devotion. You pick up a guitar and let IT become YOUR IDOL of worship, you are destined to influence people with it. For that is EXACTLY how the world 'turns on others to Satan'. Through the ARTS mostly and then 'games', (that which we rather like to call SPORTS). Music, dance, carvings, paintings, etc......... We ARE influenced by the ARTS more than ANYTHING else on this planet except perhaps MONEY and games. And look who the highest paid players are on the planet; music superstars, athletes, etc......... We have basketball players that earn more per year than the President of our country, brain sugeons, and let's not even mention our comparatively POOR teachers of our children. THAT'S where the PRIORITY of the world lies.

And look at the churches and how they have 'learned' to promote these things in order to 'please' a congregation. Instead of 'warning' their followers of the dangers of worshiping those things of the world, they simply 'join in' and offer 'Superbowl Parties', 'Nascar nights', etc.......... Teaching their followers to 'take part' in such NONSENSE is nothing short of 'the falling away' that these same people are 'waiting to see'. Sorry folks, IT'S already here. Drums and electric guitars in the churches, yoga classes, exercise groups, Superbowl parties. These things have absolutely NOTHING to do with a 'true walk'. These are nothing but deversions designed to lead one 'away' rather than 'bring them closer' to God.

Do you folks KNOW what worship IS? Once one comes to the understanding of WHY God forbid the worship of ANY OTHER GODS, one is able to 'see' WHY and WHAT He was concerned about. It was NOT selfishness or vanity that brought about God's revelation. It was a desire to do what was BEST for us. Worshiping games or material things is NOT what is 'best' for us. God KNEW this and offered information so that those that were willing to listen to Him could AVOID the pitfalls of these things.

MEC

 

[Lewis]

Below is a old post that I did in the music forum of this site. These are my own words.

We musicians as we play, and sing, need to play and sing to one audience and that is God. We tend to play for the peoples approval, we tend to see if we can get reactions out of the audience, or we like to show how good we are on our instruments, or how good we can sing. We even get so high minded that we think we are running the show. And some times you are because God will not show up. Because you have left Him out of it, instead of in it. We should always pray for God to be a big part of our playing, and pray for the Holy Ghost to lead us and fill us with His, Spirit, in our musicianship. We can have all the talent in the world, but if God is not in it, what good is it.
Christian musicians and singers, are under a constant attack by satan and his demons. Because we are the worship leaders on earth. And if you will remember, satan himself, was once a musician and praise leader in Heaven, and he knows how important that praise and worship in songs is to the Lord.
So he attacks the musicians and singers hard, very hard. But through prayer and meditating on the Lord, to have Him be a part of your playing and singing, and playing and singing to Him rather than man you will be surprised at what will come out of you. You want to be so in tune with God, that His Glory shows up. Yes God's Glory still shows up, and everybody in the place will see and feel it. Every time in the Bible when God's Glory showed up, everybody saw and felt it. Not just one but everybody. When we the musicians and the people are all of one mind worshiping and praising the Lord amazing things happen. So what I am saying is play and sing to Him, and in playing and singing to Him, the people will move and get into the spirit of the music with out you even trying, to move the people, because the Spirit of God will be there, and when the Spirit of God is in a place. Everything is affected.

 

[destiny]

I agree with you Imagican, I just didn't want to get any deeper into it.
Where the song has it's roots means everything, no matter what 'new' words you try to add to it.
With some songs it won't matter if you change out the lyrics, but with some indeed it will.
We went to a worship service where there was a lot of indian flavored drumming.
It made me real uncomfortable, I knew they were opening the door for evil spirits even though they were seemingly praising the Lord.
I agree with all of your above post.


Lewis ...i'll read your post, we were posting at the same time.

 

[jgredline]

Below is a old post that I did in the music forum of this site. These are my own words.

We musicians as we play, and sing, need to play and sing to one audience and that is God. We tend to play for the peoples approval, we tend to see if we can get reactions out of the audience, or we like to show how good we are on our instruments, or how good we can sing. We even get so high minded that we think we are running the show. And some times you are because God will not show up. Because you have left Him out of it, instead of in it. We should always pray for God to be a big part of our playing, and pray for the Holy Ghost to lead us and fill us with His, Spirit, in our musicianship. We can have all the talent in the world, but if God is not in it, what good is it.
Christian musicians and singers, are under a constant attack by satan and his demons. Because we are the worship leaders on earth. And if you will remember, satan himself, was once a musician and praise leader in Heaven, and he knows how important that praise and worship in songs is to the Lord.
So he attacks the musicians and singers hard, very hard. But through prayer and meditating on the Lord, to have Him be a part of your playing and singing, and playing and singing to Him rather than man you will be surprised at what will come out of you. You want to be so in tune with God, that His Glory shows up. Yes God's Glory still shows up, and everybody in the place will see and feel it. Every time in the Bible when God's Glory showed up, everybody saw and felt it. Not just one but everybody. When we the musicians and the people are all of one mind worshiping and praising the Lord amazing things happen. So what I am saying is play and sing to Him, and in playing and singing to Him, the people will move and get into the spirit of the music with out you even trying, to move the people, because the Spirit of God will be there, and when the Spirit of God is in a place. Everything is affected.

Lewis
This reminds me of how Matthew Redmans ''Heart of woship'' came about.
Are you familliar with that story? If not I can briefly share what I know of it.
Blessings.
jG

 

[Lewis]

Ok let me put it this way, man cannot come up with any kind of music unless it was in the mind of God first. Take for instance Rock there is nothing wrong with rock it is what man does with it. Man will take something and taint it. I happen to love Christian rock, Christian R&B' Christian Jazz, Christian metal. Many people are coming to Christ today because this music meets them where they are. So when somone tells me to not listen to Christian rock, I pay them no mind at all. God does not have a problem with music that brings him glory. The Bible says in 2 places to sing a new song' and guess what' I will. I am a musician and my taste in music is vast. Paul said nothing is bad within itself. But you can take something good and taint it. If people don't like Christian rock' don't listen to it. At my church we play a lot of modern R&B type Gospel and the Holy Ghost shows up. We play a lot of Kirk Franklin' Crystal Lewis' Richard Smallwood type of stuff. And sometimes we do old type Gospel. And I myself will continue to listen to Christian rock' metal' Jazz' and R&B type Gospel. The Holy Ghost has not told me to stop. So I am not going to let man make me stop.

Here is a good site about Christian rock, this guy really did his homework, he answers mostly everything. It has been on my site for a while. And it is in the music thread on this site, meaning the addy.
http://www.mindspring.com/~brucec/craindex.htm

 

[Lewis]

Below is a old post that I did in the music forum of this site. These are my own words.

We musicians as we play, and sing, need to play and sing to one audience and that is God. We tend to play for the peoples approval, we tend to see if we can get reactions out of the audience, or we like to show how good we are on our instruments, or how good we can sing. We even get so high minded that we think we are running the show. And some times you are because God will not show up. Because you have left Him out of it, instead of in it. We should always pray for God to be a big part of our playing, and pray for the Holy Ghost to lead us and fill us with His, Spirit, in our musicianship. We can have all the talent in the world, but if God is not in it, what good is it.
Christian musicians and singers, are under a constant attack by satan and his demons. Because we are the worship leaders on earth. And if you will remember, satan himself, was once a musician and praise leader in Heaven, and he knows how important that praise and worship in songs is to the Lord.
So he attacks the musicians and singers hard, very hard. But through prayer and meditating on the Lord, to have Him be a part of your playing and singing, and playing and singing to Him rather than man you will be surprised at what will come out of you. You want to be so in tune with God, that His Glory shows up. Yes God's Glory still shows up, and everybody in the place will see and feel it. Every time in the Bible when God's Glory showed up, everybody saw and felt it. Not just one but everybody. When we the musicians and the people are all of one mind worshiping and praising the Lord amazing things happen. So what I am saying is play and sing to Him, and in playing and singing to Him, the people will move and get into the spirit of the music with out you even trying, to move the people, because the Spirit of God will be there, and when the Spirit of God is in a place. Everything is affected.

Lewis
This reminds me of how Matthew Redmans ''Heart of woship'' came about.
Are you familliar with that story? If not I can briefly share what I know of it.
Blessings.
jG

No I don't think that I have heard that story yet.

 

[jgredline]

http://www.praisecharts.com/index.php?m ... att+Redman[/url]

Anyway as the story goes while he was the worship leader in his, his popularity got so big and people were lined up outside just to hear him play that he noticed he was taking away Gods Glory and so one day he stopped playing music al togther. There was no longer worship music been played at the church he attended. He instead used that time to pray amd meditate on the scriptures for some 3 months. As the story goes, the Lord gave him the song ''A HEART OF WORSHIP'' and when he came back to church to play again, 1/2 the church had left. While it broke his heart, he also knew who the Christians were..

I really paraphrased this and did a bad job, so I would encourage you to research the history of the sonG. What an awsome story though.
Blessings, Jg