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Was Satan the worship leader in heaven

Lewis W said:
Ok let me put it this way, man cannot come up with any kind of music unless it was in the mind of God first. Take for instance Rock there is nothing wrong with rock it is what man does with it. Man will take something and taint it. I happen to love Christian rock, Christian R&B' Christian Jazz, Christian metal. Many people are coming to Christ today because this music meets them where they are. So when somone tells me to not listen to Christian rock, I pay them no mind at all. God does not have a problem with music that brings him glory. The Bible says in 2 places to sing a new song' and guess what' I will. I am a musician and my taste in music is vast. Paul said nothing is bad within itself. But you can take something good and taint it. If people don't like Christian rock' don't listen to it. At my church we play a lot of modern R&B type Gospel and the Holy Ghost shows up. We play a lot of Kirk Franklin' Crystal Lewis' Richard Smallwood type of stuff. And sometimes we do old type Gospel. And I myself will continue to listen to Christian rock' metal' Jazz' and R&B type Gospel. The Holy Ghost has not told me to stop. So I am not going to let man make me stop.

Here is a good site about Christian rock, this guy really did his homework, he answers mostly everything. It has been on my site for a while. And it is in the music thread on this site, meaning the addy.
http://www.mindspring.com/~brucec/craindex.htm

*******

Christian Rock???? What is that. :robot:

There is a sin that so easily besets us, huh? Even Davids dancing in the street was not done in worship. The site reminds me of the doctrine of a eternal burning hell. Regardless of what the Word says, it will just not be laid aside. The Holy Spirit leads in opposite directions? Romans 8:14

Great baleful noise, much loud excitement, and the carnal body is very emotional, and order? very little order, if any, and all of this is uplifting Christ & is Holy Spirit inspired? Even with clapping for the entertainer?? And that is worship to the Godhead?? And these ones are not among the Revelation 17:5 ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH??

Whatever?
But, I will never buy into it! Revelation 18:4 :roll:

---John
 
Lewis,

Honestly, no 'talking down' or 'condemnation' or anything derogatory meant what so ever. BUT, you sound like a 'very defensive' individual. Like this is somehthing that has been 'eating' at you for a long time.

Please go back and read what you offered in your post concerning your feelings towards music. I don't know if you are even capable of discerning the 'truth' behind your post or not. But let me offer what it 'appears' you are saying. "Hey, I don't give a crap if what I am doing is wrong or not. I'm going to do it until Christ steps to me Himself and tells me not to". Kind of like ole Thomas here.

It's one thing, my friend, to accept what one does on it's own level. But to make excuses is EXACTLY what any addict does to 'keep from facing the 'truth'.

All I can offer beyond what I have already stated is this. The Spirit HAS convinced me of what I have offered. I don't come on here and randomly offer 'nonsense' for the sake of 'being heard'. I offer what I have been offered in the hopes that it may open some eyes and hearts. But some eyes will remain 'blind' regardless, and some hearts WILL remain hardened regardless. And PLEASE, don't blame the short comings of man on the Holy Spirit. For when one does this, I must question whether they even KNOW, or have know the Spirit.

There is MUCH that ALL of us DON'T know. Don't ever let yourself PUT YOURSELF in the position to 'think' that you are any different than ALL OF US. You were able to read what I have offered. From the gist of your response, I would suggest some serious prayer and asking for guidance. For your reply is an indication that 'you' and 'your' desires mean MUCH more to you than ANYTHING else including God or His Son.

I am NOT condemning you. I don't even know you. I do have your response though, and I know EXACTLY how you feel. i use to feel the SAME way. But one thing that I can PROMISE you is this, the moment you start thinking the thoughts such as you have offered, there is NO room for ANYTHING other than "your'' desires in your heart.

If you take offense to this, it will do NOTHING but PROVE every word that I have offered. For I have not offered them in hate or envy or anger, but in LOVE. I know where those kinds of thoughts led me for years and I can think of NOTHING that I would 'rather' than to see my brothers and sisters in Christ be able to abandone them and open their hearts to God.

Take what I have offered for what it's worth. If you think I'm 'just an idiot', so be it, if you think I am some heartless bonehead, so be it. But if you will simply open your heart and ask, you will PLAINLY see why I have offered what I have offered. And MAYBE the reason that The Spirit has never offered conviction concerning music is that maybe you've never asked. And under the circumstances concerning your reply; would you even hear or listen if The Spirit DID offer an understanding of music?

God Bless you my brother.

MEC
 
Imagican said:
Lewis,

Honestly, no 'talking down' or 'condemnation' or anything derogatory meant what so ever. BUT, you sound like a 'very defensive' individual. Like this is somehthing that has been 'eating' at you for a long time.

Please go back and read what you offered in your post concerning your feelings towards music. I don't know if you are even capable of discerning the 'truth' behind your post or not. But let me offer what it 'appears' you are saying. "Hey, I don't give a crap if what I am doing is wrong or not. I'm going to do it until Christ steps to me Himself and tells me not to". Kind of like ole Thomas here.

It's one thing, my friend, to accept what one does on it's own level. But to make excuses is EXACTLY what any addict does to 'keep from facing the 'truth'.

All I can offer beyond what I have already stated is this. The Spirit HAS convinced me of what I have offered. I don't come on here and randomly offer 'nonsense' for the sake of 'being heard'. I offer what I have been offered in the hopes that it may open some eyes and hearts. But some eyes will remain 'blind' regardless, and some hearts WILL remain hardened regardless. And PLEASE, don't blame the short comings of man on the Holy Spirit. For when one does this, I must question whether they even KNOW, or have know the Spirit.

There is MUCH that ALL of us DON'T know. Don't ever let yourself PUT YOURSELF in the position to 'think' that you are any different than ALL OF US. You were able to read what I have offered. From the gist of your response, I would suggest some serious prayer and asking for guidance. For your reply is an indication that 'you' and 'your' desires mean MUCH more to you than ANYTHING else including God or His Son.

I am NOT condemning you. I don't even know you. I do have your response though, and I know EXACTLY how you feel. i use to feel the SAME way. But one thing that I can PROMISE you is this, the moment you start thinking the thoughts such as you have offered, there is NO room for ANYTHING other than "your'' desires in your heart.

If you take offense to this, it will do NOTHING but PROVE every word that I have offered. For I have not offered them in hate or envy or anger, but in LOVE. I know where those kinds of thoughts led me for years and I can think of NOTHING that I would 'rather' than to see my brothers and sisters in Christ be able to abandone them and open their hearts to God.

Take what I have offered for what it's worth. If you think I'm 'just an idiot', so be it, if you think I am some heartless bonehead, so be it. But if you will simply open your heart and ask, you will PLAINLY see why I have offered what I have offered. And MAYBE the reason that The Spirit has never offered conviction concerning music is that maybe you've never asked. And under the circumstances concerning your reply; would you even hear or listen if The Spirit DID offer an understanding of music?

God Bless you my brother.

MEC

******
Very well stated! And this is the reason that any of us should do the 'hard work that is against our nature'. And it is not just 'music' perversion, but any & all sins, that need pointing out which 'we' may be weak towards? Hebrews 12:1

Again, thanks for expressing 'my' thoughts also. Some of us are not able to get our heart & motives of love for the Master across as sincerely as this post has done. :sad

---John
 
Lewis W, you never proved that Satan was Lucifer. All you did was describe Lucifer and in no way, showed a verse connecting him to Satan.
 
At my church we play a lot of modern R&B type Gospel and the Holy Ghost shows up. We play a lot of Kirk Franklin'

I love Kirk Franklin! :) I've got three of his CDs at home. I'll be darned if listening to that is wrong. I also have several Christian R&B cds at home. My favorite group is Cross Movement because their lyrics are more on target with the Christian life than most groups. Just my opinion.

God Bless,

Josh
 
Case in point; Take AC/DC's 'Highway to Hell'. I don't care WHAT lyrics you were to add to this MUSIC, there is NO way that you could POSSIBLY make the MUSIC Christian. Black Sabbath's 'War Pigs', NO WAY that one could simply add Christian lyrics to this song and have it HONOR God. IMPOSSIBLE.

Before you read what I have to say please take note that I am in no way defending AC/DC or any other secular music group, which could very well probably lead people on a 'highway to HELL" if they continue to listen to it and let it influence them:

Now, your particular example could just be a perception based on cultural understanding. You who would have heard the song before, and had the hellish blasphemous images now permanantly associated with that song's tune, would be uneasy around even a redemption of the lyrics. But say you let an African or Asian or someone who has never heard the original song and only let them listen to a redeemed version of a song which may praise God, say the lyrics were even direct quotes of Bible verses, then if it is a testimony to that person about God then in what sense is it evil?

And look at the churches and how they have 'learned' to promote these things in order to 'please' a congregation. Instead of 'warning' their followers of the dangers of worshiping those things of the world, they simply 'join in' and offer 'Superbowl Parties', 'Nascar nights', etc.......... Teaching their followers to 'take part' in such NONSENSE is nothing short of 'the falling away' that these same people are 'waiting to see'. Sorry folks, IT'S already here. Drums and electric guitars in the churches, yoga classes, exercise groups, Superbowl parties. These things have absolutely NOTHING to do with a 'true walk'. These are nothing but deversions designed to lead one 'away' rather than 'bring them closer' to God.

You are sort of going on a tangent here (from the topic of music), and I mostly agree with your rant, but what I find interesting is that you classify drums and electric guitars along with other things that are activites, rather than amoral instruments that can used for any purpose. Oh and while/since you've mentioned it, I'm surprised that you even list yoga. I hope churches don't do yoga! That's a whole 'nother topic though...

But back to drums and guitars. First of all drums are used in the Bible so no more need be said on that. Now as for electric guitars. Why is it singled out? Because it's "electric" and not a classical wooden guitar? Isn't it just the acoustics that are different? And if you think about it the elctric guitar propagates its acoustics through the speaker so the speaker would have to be an evil intrument as well, but since this is completely rediculous and a speaker is as amoral as a guitar then this arguement need not crop up again.

Please go back and read what you offered in your post concerning your feelings towards music. I don't know if you are even capable of discerning the 'truth' behind your post or not. But let me offer what it 'appears' you are saying. "Hey, I don't give a crap if what I am doing is wrong or not. I'm going to do it until Christ steps to me Himself and tells me not to". Kind of like ole Thomas here.

I'm not seeing it. Tell me where you read this into his post and I'll take a look at it.

It's one thing, my friend, to accept what one does on it's own level. But to make excuses is EXACTLY what any addict does to 'keep from facing the 'truth'.

Excuses for what?

All I can offer beyond what I have already stated is this. The Spirit HAS convinced me of what I have offered. I don't come on here and randomly offer 'nonsense' for the sake of 'being heard'. I offer what I have been offered in the hopes that it may open some eyes and hearts. But some eyes will remain 'blind' regardless, and some hearts WILL remain hardened regardless. And PLEASE, don't blame the short comings of man on the Holy Spirit. For when one does this, I must question whether they even KNOW, or have know the Spirit.

No offense but the Spirit can convict individuals of things which may be wrong for them to do but not wrong for others to do (Romans 14 - food, as the topic of that chapter though, is only just one example of many relative observances). And because of this (also talked about in Romans 14) not everything should be without dispute when the Bible says that one should not condemn the other because they are led to act differently (Romans 14:3).

And this is the true measure for relative observances in our Christian walk:

"22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin." (Romans 14:22-23)


But if you will simply open your heart and ask, you will PLAINLY see why I have offered what I have offered. And MAYBE the reason that The Spirit has never offered conviction concerning music is that maybe you've never asked. And under the circumstances concerning your reply; would you even hear or listen if The Spirit DID offer an understanding of music?


The Lord personally delivered me from listening to bad music around my Junior High/Early High School years. By no initial action of my own, but only God's prompting on my conscience, the lyrics started to slowly turn more and more sour in my stomach, until I stopped listening to things such as DMX, Eminem, Puff Daddy, Nelly, Snoop Dog, etc... It was all about sex, drugs, money, and a bunch of other hateful garbage with no lack of curse words in them. I did the unthinkable: I even told my parents that I was listening to it (who under normal circumstances would have killed me for it) and I confessed my wrong doing before them and God. And God provided me with a substitue. I found out for the first time that there was such a thing as Christian R&B/Hip Hop and it completely changed my life by edifying me rather than filling my life with garbage.

God even provided me with a witnessing opportunity before my entire English class with one of my R&B songs which spoke of Jesus' crucifixion and what he gave for us. Our english teacher asked us to bring in our favorite CD and print out the lyrics to hand out to the class, and play the song then explain the lyrics. It was an amazing opportunity to declare Jesus as Lord, IN SCHOOL! Schools would give and arm and a leg (from a legal stand point - luckily our teachers respected freedom of expression though) to stop you from doing this exact same thing.

I must say the Lord provided this Christian R&B music as the substitute for that GARBAGE I used to listen to, and it has edified me and even been used as a witnessing tool. I can speak no evil against it.


God Bless,

Josh
 
Imagican said:
Lewis,

Honestly, no 'talking down' or 'condemnation' or anything derogatory meant what so ever. BUT, you sound like a 'very defensive' individual. Like this is somehthing that has been 'eating' at you for a long time.

Please go back and read what you offered in your post concerning your feelings towards music. I don't know if you are even capable of discerning the 'truth' behind your post or not. But let me offer what it 'appears' you are saying. "Hey, I don't give a crap if what I am doing is wrong or not. I'm going to do it until Christ steps to me Himself and tells me not to". Kind of like ole Thomas here.

It's one thing, my friend, to accept what one does on it's own level. But to make excuses is EXACTLY what any addict does to 'keep from facing the 'truth'.

All I can offer beyond what I have already stated is this. The Spirit HAS convinced me of what I have offered. I don't come on here and randomly offer 'nonsense' for the sake of 'being heard'. I offer what I have been offered in the hopes that it may open some eyes and hearts. But some eyes will remain 'blind' regardless, and some hearts WILL remain hardened regardless. And PLEASE, don't blame the short comings of man on the Holy Spirit. For when one does this, I must question whether they even KNOW, or have know the Spirit.

There is MUCH that ALL of us DON'T know. Don't ever let yourself PUT YOURSELF in the position to 'think' that you are any different than ALL OF US. You were able to read what I have offered. From the gist of your response, I would suggest some serious prayer and asking for guidance. For your reply is an indication that 'you' and 'your' desires mean MUCH more to you than ANYTHING else including God or His Son.

I am NOT condemning you. I don't even know you. I do have your response though, and I know EXACTLY how you feel. i use to feel the SAME way. But one thing that I can PROMISE you is this, the moment you start thinking the thoughts such as you have offered, there is NO room for ANYTHING other than "your'' desires in your heart.

If you take offense to this, it will do NOTHING but PROVE every word that I have offered. For I have not offered them in hate or envy or anger, but in LOVE. I know where those kinds of thoughts led me for years and I can think of NOTHING that I would 'rather' than to see my brothers and sisters in Christ be able to abandone them and open their hearts to God.

Take what I have offered for what it's worth. If you think I'm 'just an idiot', so be it, if you think I am some heartless bonehead, so be it. But if you will simply open your heart and ask, you will PLAINLY see why I have offered what I have offered. And MAYBE the reason that The Spirit has never offered conviction concerning music is that maybe you've never asked. And under the circumstances concerning your reply; would you even hear or listen if The Spirit DID offer an understanding of music?

God Bless you my brother.

MEC
Thats right because I have heard to many supposed to be people of God, put us down the world over for our style of Christian music today. And a lot of them same ones are doing nothing to expand the Kingdom of God. The young people today and millions of old ones, come to Christ because the styles of music that we play' meets them where they are because it' is about Christ' or something that is going on in their lives. We might sing about drugs, or we might sing about how being a hooker is contrary to Christ' and the people get this message. God did not create everyone alike, so different people have different tastes in music, some like R&B some like Metal' some like Jazz. Now when you take that music and use it for the glory of God' He has no problem with that. Because first of all' man cannot come up with any style of music that was not in the mind of God first. Just like the technology that we have today' it was in the mind of God first. Or we can't come up with it. Now at the same time we are to be careful what we listen to. So if someone does not like Christian R&B and so forth' don't listen to it. I myself like it from classical to opera' to metal to jazz to R&B to country. and using those genres to sing and play glory to God is a good thing. People think that when they hear a distorted guitar in Gospel that it is from the devil' get a life. Because people are getting saved because this music meets them where they are. People said the same thing about old time Gospel when it appeared on the scene. People are always going to have something to say. But today I choose not to let them rain on my parade. And may God bless you my brother and I really mean that.
 
Read that about Alice Cooper' last week. I went to see him around 1972 during my hippie days. But look what Christ has done for him' turned him around. :D
 
I would like to add one thing and then I have offered about as much as I am able.

Guys, there are MANY that will 'claim' Christ as their Savior. Many WILL be LIARS. I accuse NO ONE and that is NOT my 'job'. Mine is but to offer that which has been 'given' to me. Those that accept it must then 'take it on their OWN' from there.

Yes, the churches 'seem' to be 'growing' by leaps and bounds now days. This is NOT a 'good sign' except to those that 'benefit' from a 'larger' attendance. As we observe the 'world' take on a 'different' attitude towards the churches, that 'should' be a 'sign' to those of 'understanding. There WILL be a 'falling away' FIRST. Before Christ returns, there WILL be a 'diversion' from the truth and MANY will follow this rather than the 'truth'. Beware of 'how happy' it makes you to see MANY being 'supposedly saved'. Benny Hindi claims millions each year. Do you truly believe that he is actually responsible for 'bringing' these to Christ? Your answer will determine your ability to discern truth over man-made manipulation.

MEC
 
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