Was the Donkey Wrong?

[Vince]

Was the Donkey Wrong?
I came up with this yesterday and this morning. Baalam was riding his donkey (Yeah, I know, it wasn't really a donkey) on his way to curse God's people for money. The donkey saw an angel standing there to kill Balaam. Three times the donkey turned aside, saving Balaam's life.

I think the donkey should have kept going straight ahead.

Balaam taught the Midianites that if they would use their women to lure Israel into immorality and idolatry, God would plague Israel. They did, and it worked.

It would have been better for everybody if the donkey had not rescued Balaam.

 

[jasoncran]

Was the Donkey Wrong?
I came up with this yesterday and this morning. Baalam was riding his donkey (Yeah, I know, it wasn't really a donkey) on his way to curse God's people for money. The donkey saw an angel standing there to kill Balaam. Three times the donkey turned aside, saving Balaam's life.

I think the donkey should have kept going straight ahead.

Balaam taught the Midianites that if they would use their women to lure Israel into immorality and idolatry, God would plague Israel. They did, and it worked.

It would have been better for everybody if the donkey had not rescued Balaam.

you dont believe that it was a donkey that balaam used?

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

I see the point you are making, except that we need to realize that this was the plan of the Lord.

The Lord tries us to burn away all the wood hay and stubble. This happens when the tempter is let on a short leash to come and bring to us the temptations that our flesh desires. In this way God is PROVING us to see which sort we are of.

Yes God could have let balaam be killed, but then those in the camp of Israel who had it in their heart to commit fornication and idolatry as soon as temptation came, would have remained in the camp and defiled it continually. Instead God used this for His purposes. Those who were wicked in Israel fell and all Israel was defiled, which then let way for their enemies to be loosed on them by God so that swift punishment could come and begin to remove the defilement from amoung them.

If we are not presented with the temptations and trials we cannot be proven before God. All defilement will remain in our flesh hidden in there, neither us or those outside of us knowing the depths of it and we also then have no ability to be tried to overcome and burn up those defilements in our flesh by resisting the tempation and growing in grace and truth and sanctification.

 

[happyjoy]

I see the point you are making, except that we need to realize that this was the plan of the Lord.

The Lord tries us to burn away all the wood hay and stubble. This happens when the tempter is let on a short leash to come and bring to us the temptations that our flesh desires. In this way God is PROVING us to see which sort we are of.

You realize you just said that God is the one who tempts us to do evil? God is the snake in the garden? Or are you saying that Satan just does the will of God fulfilling a role.

 

[Vince]

Good to hear from you, GodPromisesRyes. Your explanation is a good one, but it's is difficult to prove from Scripture.

Granted, the angel could have killed Balaam regardless of what the donkey did. So, was it God's plan that Balaam survive? The angel explained to Balaam that he would have kiled Balaam but spared the donkey. Doesn't that suggest that the donkey would have done the right thing by continuing straight ahead?

 

[jasoncran]

I see the point you are making, except that we need to realize that this was the plan of the Lord.

The Lord tries us to burn away all the wood hay and stubble. This happens when the tempter is let on a short leash to come and bring to us the temptations that our flesh desires. In this way God is PROVING us to see which sort we are of.

You realize you just said that God is the one who tempts us to do evil? God is the snake in the garden? Or are you saying that Satan just does the will of God fulfilling a role.

all that befalls men is allowed by god. that doenst mean he actively tempts us, just that he allows satan to tempt us. the temptation isnt for the lord to see , but rather for us to see what is in us.

 

[Mysteryman]

The word Ryes used was "tries" -- Not tempted !!

Read whats written ,and then one may be able to have a logical conversation with another poster.


The Lord does "try" us, but he does not "tempt" us !

 

[Vince]

Okay, Balaam understood that he could only bless or curse according to God's Word. So why did he go to curse Israel? The Bible tells us that he loved the wages of unrighteousness and refers to the "madness of the prophet." Had Balaam simply gone mad with greed?

It could be argued that the donkey restored Balaam's reason, but then later, still wanting money, he told the Midianites that by getting God's people to sin, they would bring a plague on them.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

God proves us= tries us. Satan tempts us. But God can lead us into temptation which means lead us to the place for satan to tempt us. This happened to Jesus when He was baptised He was immediately led of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

hence why we pray " lead us not into temptation"

and even that is controlled by God

1Cr 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Deu 8:16 Who fed thee in the wilderness with manna, which thy fathers knew not, that he might humble thee, and that he might prove thee, to do thee good at thy latter end;



The thing also is this, we must understand firstly that everything that happened unto them, were to be ensamples to us upon whom the end of the ages have come. God is in control of what happens and what was written to us.- Truly we know that if God wanted balaam dead right them, never would He have allowed the donkey to see the angel and stop. But this was done on purpose as a warning and to teach us. Many lessons are shown and many examples for us to learn from both personal, salvational and prophetic. We see that God had purpose to use balaam as a lesson for us because special mention of him and his wickedness is given to us in the NT over and over to show us the character of those who fall away and why. Also the prophesies that He was used to give would not have been given if He died. On top of that we are given an example that when we give secrets to our bretherns enemies that only the Lords people get to understand we betray the brethern and that is the way the enemy gets in to persecute us or tempt us.

 

[Vince]

Ryes, I appreciate the amount of thought that you are putting into your answers.

Okay, the literally true story of Balaam teaches us. But what does it teach? The donkey, meaning to protect someone she loved, protected him against God's wrath. As a result, Balaam got into even worse sin, and a plague was brought onto God's people. Doesn't the story teach that we should not assist a Christian who has gone mad with sin, but rather, let God deal with him?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

OF COURSE NOT!!!!

The donkey, meaning to protect someone she loved, protected him against God's wrath. As a result, Balaam got into even worse sin, and a plague was brought onto God's people. Doesn't the story teach that we should not assist a Christian who has gone mad with sin, but rather, let God deal with him?

WOW!!! that's a new "spin"!!!!!

so I suppose the A$$, in its DESPERATION to save Baalam suddenly figured out how to speak Hebrew, so's it could give a clear warning???

And How did the A$$ develop the ability to see into the Spirit world??? And why would you think the A$$ was doing anything but saving it's OWN skin when it turned aside???

And did or did not Baalam (to the disgust of Balak) deliver ACCURATE prophetic words and blessings as the Holy Spirit enabled him to do so????

And you don't SEE GOD DEALING WITH HIM every step of the way???

Amazing!!

 

[Vince]

Calm down, Bob.

God could have sent someone else to make Balaam's prophecies, and that person might have done a better job of witnessing to Balaak. God used the incident, but it doesn't prove that the incident was what He had wanted.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

Vince, the things that this teaches us are many, so lets start here. If everything that happened unto them was examples to us then what do we learn from balaam who we are then warned in the NT not to be like.

Firstly balaam was offered something that He should have known was wrong but he asked God anyways because his flesh desired something.

Then God told him NO and he appeared obedient and partially was and told balaks people no.

But then they asked again and even though God told him no, his flesh desired something so he went back to God to ask permission again as if God had changed his mind. and again was told no and seemed obedient.

It is a biblical principle that we are to obey the word of God that He gives us the first time. If we have an idol of what we want more than what God has told us- HE WILL GIVE US OUR IDOL and give us permission to have what we desire more than him. If we take that permission because we are too blinded by our lust to see that this is not right, then we will think He has given permission and we will have our lusts and it will destroy us because we did not want the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


So we learn this in balaam. Finally it was manifest that balaam wanted his lusts more than the real answer of God so God gave him his idol and said yes. During this time He was still used of God to give prophesies that were absolutly true. But what balaam didnt know is that he was giving us yet another lesson.

There is another biblical principle that deals with " dark sentences, parables, riddles, dark dayings". This is that these things are only given to the children of the kingdom of God to understand and the wicked never ever understand them. UNTIL they are revealed to them by Gods people who know them themselves which the wicked then use to either turn and rend the one who revealed it- OR the wicked use it to then persectue the brethern of the wone who revealed it making them a judas who gave the enemy the way to kill their brethern.

Balak never would have understood how to defeat Israel if balaam would have stopped going to him when told not to go, but instread he gave him the information to destroy them.

in this we learn what causes men to be unrightoeus and be in the way of cain and judas and balaam. this is just for starters.

 

[Vince]

Good points, Reyes, although I think you meant to say that the second time Balaam asked, God said "Yes."

Okay, we do learn that the wicked are often unable to understand God's ways, and that the righteous need to explain them. The Moabites did not understand that the best way for them to fight God's people was to get them to sin, and they learned it from Balaam. So we also learn that one of Satan's best tactics is to get us to sin, and we can refuse to sin, thus negating a powerful weapon against us.

Side note: there is a very strong connection between the Midianites and the Moabites.

Using the knowledge they gained from Balaam, the Midianites led God's people into sin, causing a plague, and then God ordered Israel to destroy the Midianites. We also learn that the wickedness of the wicked eventually returns to them.

BUT:

If the donkey has kept going and Balaam was killed, Balaam's sins would have been less, the Midianites would never have learned about this powerful weapon, there would not have been a plague, and the Midianites would not have been destroyed. We would have learned (from the donkey) that it is better to submit to God's will than to try to correct God's will.

 

[Mysteryman]

Good points, Reyes, although I think you meant to say that the second time Balaam asked, God said "Yes."

Okay, we do learn that the wicked are often unable to understand God's ways, and that the righteous need to explain them. The Moabites did not understand that the best way for them to fight God's people was to get them to sin, and they learned it from Balaam. So we also learn that one of Satan's best tactics is to get us to sin, and we can refuse to sin, thus negating a powerful weapon against us.

Side note: there is a very strong connection between the Midianites and the Moabites.

Using the knowledge they gained from Balaam, the Midianites led God's people into sin, causing a plague, and then God ordered Israel to destroy the Midianites. We also learn that the wickedness of the wicked eventually returns to them.

BUT:

If the donkey has kept going and Balaam was killed, Balaam's sins would have been less, the Midianites would never have learned about this powerful weapon, there would not have been a plague, and the Midianites would not have been destroyed. We would have learned (from the donkey) that it is better to submit to God's will than to try to correct God's will.

LOL - The donkey would have died, but not Balaam. All Balaam would need to do, if his donkey had died , was to go to a used donkey lot , and put down a down payment, register it, pay taxes, and ride off into the susnet on his gurateed 3 month promise that this donkey would not be killed by an angel on his journey. (Sound like a car salesman ? ) :biglaugh

 

[Vince]

Good to hear from you, Mysteryman, but that wasn't what would have happened.

The angel stated plainly that he would have killed Balaam but spared the donkey if the donkey hadn't turned aside. This indicates that the donkey would not have angered God by going straight ahead and letting Balaam get killed.

It also indicates that God had a higher opinion of the donkey's spiritual condition than He had for Balaam's.

 

[Mysteryman]

Good to hear from you, Mysteryman, but that wasn't what would have happened.

The angel stated plainly that he would have killed Balaam but spared the donkey if the donkey hadn't turned aside. This indicates that the donkey would not have angered God by going straight ahead and letting Balaam get killed.

It also indicates that God had a higher opinion of the donkey's spiritual condition than He had for Balaam's.

Hi

The donkey didn't know that. In fact, the donkey didn't know anything. From the story, we see that the donkey feared for its own life. It was only revealed unto Balaam that he would have died, after the fact. It was a way in which God used the donkey , and an angel spoke through the donkey. Donkey's don't speak !

All of this was a wake up call for Balaam. He was not to speak or say anything other than what God has spoken directly too him. He was not to add too, nor take away from the words of the Lord God. God was being very specific here. Balaam was one who would easily had added unwarranted information. As we see in Numbers 22:18 is an example of this.

If you notice, God told Balaam to go with the men and go unto Balak. Yet, on the way God stopped Balaam while riding on his donkey (a$$). The angel told Balaam in verse 32 that his way was perverse. What this means, is that Balaam's thoughts were more important to Balaam than the thoughts of the Lord God. Verse 35 makes this very clear.

 

[Vince]

"...and an angel spoke through the donkey."

I'm afraid that I'll need book, chapter, and verse for that one.



"...she said to Balaam...Numbers 22:28

Numbers 22:30 "So the donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your donkey ..."

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

Firstly God told balaam

Num 22:12 And God said unto Balaam, Thou shalt not go with them; thou shalt not curse the people: for they [are] blessed.

Then they offered balaam his lusts and so then

Num 22:19 Now therefore, I pray you, tarry ye also here this night, that I may know what the LORD will say unto me more.
Num 22:20 And God came unto Balaam at night, and said unto him, If the men come to call thee, rise up, [and] go with them; but yet the word which I shall say unto thee, that shalt thou do.

God already told him do not go. but now the pot was sweeter and he reallly wanted to go, so he asked God again and was told to go. then

Num 22:21 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab.
Num 22:22 ¶ And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants [were] with him.


Now we have to be honest here, we have to stop taking the control and sovereignty away from God. Do we really believe that if it was Gods will to make sure balaam was killed to stop all that would follow this event that God could be stopped from accomplishing it? Do we really think that there are only certain squares of land on earth upon which the angel of the Lord can stand and if you stop short of his space you are spared and he can't step forward and kill you? Of course not. The angel of the Lord once killed 185,000 in ONE NIGHT by himself. Surely if God absolutly wanted balaam dead - he would have been dead.- Gods anger was kindled against Him Clearly what happened is exactly what God desired to happen and even the things that happened are very telling in the rest of the bible but that is a much larger topic like.

Num 22:24 But the angel of the LORD stood in a path of the vineyards, a wall [being] on this side, and a wall on that side.
Num 22:25 And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed Balaam's foot against the wall: and he smote her again.
Num 22:26 And the angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place, where [was] no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left.


Then GOD opened the donkeys mouth to speak to balaam. God could have done anything that He desired, just killed him right there so clearly it was not GODs will or purpose to have had balaam killed.

God told the Israelites that His purpose for them being in the wilderness was to PROVE THEM.

Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, [and] to prove thee, to know what [was] in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every [word] that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

If God killed everyone who would bring in the temptations that would prove them, they would never be proved or tried. It may be OUR will and desire to have all things hard removed from us and we may think it would be better if these people didnt exist or were killed before their damage was done, but they serve a purpose to God, even their wickedness is used for the good of those who love him. Even their wickedness is used to bring about the plans of God.

Dan 4:34 ¶ And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom [is] from generation to generation:
Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth [are] reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and [among] the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Indeed none can stay his hand.

Lam 3:37 Who [is] he [that] saith, and it cometh to pass, [when] the Lord commandeth [it] not?


Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?


Lam 3:39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?


Lam 3:40 Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the LORD.

 

[Vince]

"...we have to stop taking the control and sovereignty away from God."

Many Christians are surprised to learn that the word "sovereignty" does not appear anywhere in Scripture.

Granted, God knew what was going to happen, and God could have killed Balaam regardless of what the donkey did. But He is teaching us something in this story: it is better to do things God's way than our way. It would have been better for everyone if the donkey had followed God's plan.

Another teaching: a Christian who sets out to destroy God's people is mad. Don't support him.