• Love God, and love one another!

    Share your heart for Christ and others in Godly Love

    https://christianforums.net/forums/god_love/

  • Want to discuss private matters, or make a few friends?

    Ask for membership to the Men's or Lady's Locker Rooms

    For access, please contact a member of staff and they can add you in!

  • Wake up and smell the coffee!

    Join us for a little humor in Joy of the Lord

    https://christianforums.net/forums/humor_and_jokes/

  • Need prayer and encouragement?

    Come share your heart's concerns in the Prayer Forum

    https://christianforums.net/forums/prayer/

  • Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?

    Join For His Glory for a discussion on how

    https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/

  • Have questions about the Christian faith?

    Come ask us what's on your mind in Questions and Answers

    https://christianforums.net/forums/questions-and-answers/

  • CFN has a new look and a new theme

    "I bore you on eagle's wings, and brought you to Myself" (Exodus 19:4)

    More new themes coming in the future!

  • Read the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?

    Read through this brief blog, and receive eternal salvation as the free gift of God

    /blog/the-gospel

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

    Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.

Was the Donkey Wrong?

"God used the incident, but it doesn't prove that the incident was what He had wanted."

Num 22:20 And God came unto Balaam at night, and said unto him, If the men come to call thee, rise up, and go with them; but yet the word which I shall say unto thee, that shalt thou do.

God sent him - case closed.

Balaam was the RIGHT person at the RIGHT time to provide the ministry that God CHOSE, and he performed it PERFECTLY.

But since he was a greed driven fool, he got off track, sided with the enemy, and was destroyed by the Israelites.

I see no reason to assume otherwise.

I think it's really funny to ascribe any "volition" about the activities to the dumb A$$ - who also provided EXACTLY the ministry that God intended it to, as it was burdened by the Holy Spirit to do so.
 
I have to admit, it is a bit disturbing to me that you think that a donkey can go against Gods plan.

God could make the donkey talk but somehow a donkey could outwit God and go against Gods plan? I mean really? .. what?

Here is something interesting that GOD said about this that I just found and is beautiful:

Mic 6:2 Hear ye, O mountains, the LORD'S controversy, and ye strong foundations of the earth: for the LORD hath a controversy with his people, and he will plead with Israel.
Mic 6:3 O my people, what have I done unto thee? and wherein have I wearied thee? testify against me.
Mic 6:4 For I brought thee up out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of servants; and I sent before thee Moses, Aaron, and Miriam.
Mic 6:5 O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from Shittim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the LORD.

God did this that Israel may know the rigtheousness of the Lord! Praise God! See killing balaam was not Gods " plan"- Gods plan was to have balaam answer balak back what He did to know Israel Gods righteousness!


When God tells us the reason that something happens is that we may know His righteousness, that shows us that it was GODS PLAN, not that God just knew it would happen and then was outdone by a donkey.

2Pe 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

It is very interesting that what the donkey did is considered a rebuke.
 
Truly i know this is off topic,

but why do we try to hard to make excuses for God? He tries so hard and so vehemetly takes credit for things in the word of God, and His people so often give him the credit in the word of God, and post after post thread after thread, we see us trying to say this person undid Gods plan, God didnt really do that, yes God knew but didnt do it, God permits but doesnt actually " do". God just sees things ahead of time he doesnt make anything happen,, Gods plan was just outsmarted and messed up, God had to change his plan cause some dumb person or donkey didnt follow the plan etc etc etc......... I just do not see any biblical precident for any of this and it is very sad. Gods people in the word of God sounded very differnt.

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Jer 32:42 For thus saith the LORD; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.

Jer 42:6 Whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil, we will obey the voice of the LORD our God, to whom we send thee; that it may be well with us, when we obey the voice of the LORD our God.


Lam 3:37 Who [is] he [that] saith, and it cometh to pass, [when] the Lord commandeth [it] not?
Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
 
"{The donkey} also provided EXACTLY the ministry that God intended it to, as it was burdened by the Holy Spirit to do so."

Book, chapter, and verse, please.


"...but somehow a donkey could outwit God and go against His plan?"

No, the donkey did not outwit God. The donkey fouled things up.
 
Sillier and sillier -

"Book, chapter, and verse, please."

You already KNOW the chapter, and verses, so you already HAVE your answer. If your chosen "Spin" on the Word leads you otherwise, then so be it.
 
Vince,

Please compare the incident where Moses' wife stopped Moses on the way back to Egypt and circumcised their son so that the Angel of the Lord would not slay him (Exodus 4:24-26). Can you give similarities and differences? Do you only consider those accounts in light of what happened afterward, or what the immediate circumstance was? Perhaps a comparison will illuminate this story of Balaam a little better.

~Josh
 
Vince said:
"...and an angel spoke through the donkey."

I'm afraid that I'll need book, chapter, and verse for that one.



"...she said to Balaam...Numbers 22:28

Numbers 22:30 "So the donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your donkey ..."
Click to expand...


Hi Vince

The angel of the Lord did all the talking. Such was the case in Numbers 22:35 - "And the angel of the Lord said unto Balaam, Go with the men : but only the word that "I" shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak"

The angel of the Lord spoke for the Lord God. So when we read in verse 28 , that the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, it was the angel doing the speaking for the Lord God. So it was the angel speaking and not the donkey (a$$).

This shows us the insanity of Balaam as he himself speaks back to his donkey , as if the donkey can communicate in such a manner with mankind. It would be like having an argument with your pet dog, and your dog talks back too you. It would make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up if that happened. But Balaam was so upset , that he talked to his donkey (a$$). Which shows us the mentality and thoughts of Balaam. Which also makes clear that his heart was not right , so that in verse 32 the angel of the Lord told Balaam that his way is perverse.

The Lord God needed to get inside of Balaam's head,and make him realize that he had a job to do, and that there was only one way in which to perform this job. And that was to explain to Balak just exactly what the Lord God wanted to make clear to Balak. And the Lord used Balaam to accomplish his goal to make this message clear unto Balak.

II Peter 2:13 - 16 -- states -- "the dumb a$$ speaking with man's voice forbad the 'madness" of the prophet" . Balaam loved the wages of unrighteousness, and yet, he was a Prophet of God. This is why God's ways , do not always line up with our way of thinking. How could God use a man, and make him a Prophet , who loved the wages of unrighteousness ? It appears to make no sense at all.

These thoughts continue if one continues to read II Peter chapter 3. Which specifically is talking about the ignorance of man. And I might add -- The willing ignorant. Those that want to remain ignorant.

Balaam was willingly ignorant because of his lusts. God had to put the fear of God in him, in order for him to continue to do the will of God and not his own will.

These thoughts should continue on into the reading of the book of Jude. In Jude verse 10 is a reflection of Balak, and verse 11 is a refelction of Balaam. Balak spoke evil of Jacob and Israel, which he was doing, because of his lack of knowledge . While Balaam wanted reward for his efforts (Numbers 22:17 & 18)

Verse 12 of Jude is telling us that if our efforts are for greed and reward, then our efforts are fruitless

Even Jude verse 16 is a reflection of Balaam and his mind set. Until God put the fear of God in him.

If one reads Jude 20 thru 24 one should see the reflection of Balaam after God had his attention. Which means that we should focus upon God and what God says.
 
Vince said:
"{The donkey} also provided EXACTLY the ministry that God intended it to, as it was burdened by the Holy Spirit to do so."

Book, chapter, and verse, please.


"...but somehow a donkey could outwit God and go against His plan?"

No, the donkey did not outwit God. The donkey fouled things up.
Click to expand...
so not only can men foil the plans of God, now mere animals can undo the plans of God? really?

well God disagrees, because He says there was a purpose behind what balaam was given to prophesy and since he prophesied after the donkey incident that means he was meant to live.

Mic 6:5 O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from Shittim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the LORD.


Now you are claiming that a donkey fouled things up by delivering balaam out of Gods hand and that this was not Gods intention. But the bible not only shows in the verse above that is not true but here as well

Isa 43:11 I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour.
Isa 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when [there was] no strange [god] among you: therefore ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I [am] God.
Isa 43:13 Yea, before the day [was] I [am] he; and [there is] none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
 
Sorry, Bob, but I do NOT know the book, chapter, and verse that says "{The donkey} also provided EXACTLY the ministry that God intended it to, as it was burdened by the Holy Spirit to do so."

There is none.
 
Folks, I've given two verses from Numbers showing that the donkey spoke to Balaam. Another verse is in 2 Peter 2:16 states that "a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet."

Some people are upset at the idea that our sinful conduct can produce results that God did not want to occur, but they can.
 
Vince said:
Folks, I've given two verses from Numbers showing that the donkey spoke to Balaam. Another verse is in 2 Peter 2:16 states that "a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet."

Some people are upset at the idea that our sinful conduct can produce results that God did not want to occur, but they can.
Click to expand...
DONKEYS CANT SIN.
 
True, the donkey couldn't sin. The teaching is that when we use our intelligence (as the donkey did) to correct God's plan, we make things worse.
 
Vince said:
True, the donkey couldn't sin. The teaching is that when we use our intelligence (as the donkey did) to correct God's plan, we make things worse.
Click to expand...
now the donkey has intelligence?

I already gave the verse in Micah that clearly shows this was Gods actual plan because God purposed balaam to prophesy
 
vince have you ever been around those things, not very bright. and can be mean. usually they arent if treated right.
 
mdo757 said:
I wonder if God spoke from Balaams ass to show He has a sense of humor? :shrug
Click to expand...


This is most definetly God's sense of humor. And even though God wanted to use Balaam, and the kind of person that Balaam was. Shows us that God uses whom he pleases. It is the way in which God deals with us and the circumstances that surround any given purpose that God wants to bring to pass.

Like sending a blind man to heal the blind. God can pull it off without contradicting His Word. :yes
 
Ryes, the verse you cited in Micah does not state that Balaam's survival was God's actual plan. It only shows God's righteousness.

Mic 6:5 O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from Shittim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the LORD.

Folks, shortly after accepting Christ, I learned that most fundamentalists aren't fundamentalists. We have the common belief that God didn't really mean to kill Balaam, and when confronted with Scripture, people defend the belief, even though Scripture won't support it.
 
Vince said:
Ryes, the verse you cited in Micah does not state that Balaam's survival was God's actual plan. It only shows God's righteousness.

Mic 6:5 O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from Shittim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the LORD.

Folks, shortly after accepting Christ, I learned that most fundamentalists aren't fundamentalists. We have the common belief that God didn't really mean to kill Balaam, and when confronted with Scripture, people defend the belief, even though Scripture won't support it.
Click to expand...
vince the word of God is clear that if God means to kill someone NO ONE can deliver out of his hand. Life and death are in His hands. Often when Gods anger is kindled, He desires one to stand in the gap between Him and the one he is mad at and plead their cause or turn back his wrath because that is the ministry of His faithful. What we see is the donkey standing in the gap for balaam- which then got her treated worse by balaam. If God meant to kill him, he would be dead

Deu 32:39 See now that I, [even] I, [am] he, and [there is] no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither [is there any] that can deliver out of my hand.
 
jasoncran said:
vince have you ever been around those things, not very bright. and can be mean. usually they arent if treated right.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about donkeys or Christians?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top