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sorta like Moses hitting the Rock... ... The people got the water... but Moses got in trouble...

I can always rely on you Reba to bring a comment that causes me to stop and consider a truth that is just above normal thinking. I have to put on my spiritual mind to understand what you have said, I love the challenge that you usually give me. Boy, that incident of Moses hitting the rock out of frustration and God chastising him for it has, over the years, caused me to wonder if there is more to it than is recorded. You are right, the people got the water but by a man who was out of the will of God at that moment. So, even if a false Prophet gives something godly, they will be satisfied just like the people were with the water Moses supplied.

Reba, you are the Mother of our little family. You are a combination of your wisdom and your Dad's wisdom which makes you so valuable to this Bible study. I wish there were words to express how much I depend and rely on your wisdom. For some reason, you befriended me from the moment I joined CF.net. And have guided me along with encouragement which is partly why I desire to encourage others in our little family here. I just wanted you to know how valuable you are to all of us. I hope that God blesses you abundantly. :hug
 
I certainly don't want to start a debate, but Moses was a Prophet of God and not a false prophet, Moses couldn't lead the people into the Land of Promise because he was a type of the Law (that is a central theme of Paul's New Testament teachings), it was Joshua, a type of/for our Jesus, who lead them in just like Jesus leads us into our Promised Land today, ...besides Moses taught the people how to determine if a prophet was from God, just one false prophecy disqualified them, that means all of the so called prophets in the church today that have made prophecies that didn't come to pass are false and we are not to follow them.


(But God so loved Moses, ...He snuck him in at the Mount of Transfiguration)
 
I certainly don't want to start a debate, but Moses was a Prophet of God and not a false prophet, Moses couldn't lead the people into the Land of Promise because he was a type of the Law (that is a central theme of Paul's New Testament teachings), it was Joshua, a type of/for our Jesus, who lead them in just like Jesus leads us into our Promised Land today, ...besides Moses taught the people how to determine if a prophet was from God, just one false prophecy disqualified them, that means all of the so called prophets in the church today that have made prophecies that didn't come to pass are false and we are not to follow them.

Different opinions/thoughts etc are a good thing... they are welcome:) ... Please feel free to speak your mind heart... the restrictions we have here are the TOS / SOF
 
I believe it's number 1, just take a look at the chicanery rampant in the "so called" church today, encouraging believers (?) to invite the demonic Kundalini force to take control of them?

I can post a video if I have your permission, or if you prefer I can PM the link to you for approval or not before posting so as to not hijack this thread.

I would say, go ahead and post the video, it probably goes along with our subject.
 
NOTE: Since my kitchen is not ready for my remodel, I will continue the Bible study into chap. eight....I will not post on Thursday, Thanksgiving.
 
I certainly don't want to start a debate, but Moses was a Prophet of God and not a false prophet, Moses couldn't lead the people into the Land of Promise because he was a type of the Law (that is a central theme of Paul's New Testament teachings), it was Joshua, a type of/for our Jesus, who lead them in just like Jesus leads us into our Promised Land today, ...besides Moses taught the people how to determine if a prophet was from God, just one false prophecy disqualified them, that means all of the so called prophets in the church today that have made prophecies that didn't come to pass are false and we are not to follow them.


(But God so loved Moses, ...He snuck him in at the Mount of Transfiguration)

Thanks Karl. please note that Reba and I don't consider Moses a false prophet. He was a GREAT Prophet and servant of the most High God!
 
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I would say, go ahead and post the video, it probably goes along with our subject.

Yes it goes along with our subject, but I'm afraid it would start a fire storm because it names names, I think it is more prudent to send it to you via PM and let you decide, so as to not disrupt a Bible study.
 
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
This statement is of critical importance, and separates the sheep from the goats. We must KNOW Christ personally and intimately in order to be in His eternal presence, and the only way to know Him is to consciously receive Him as Lord and Savior, and then commune or fellowship with Him daily.

This is what the Lord implies in Rev 3:20 when He says He will "sup" with us and we with Him. To sup is to have fellowship, and God's ultimate plan for us is to have eternal fellowship with Him. Therefore He will not, and cannot say to His sheep "Depart from me". Once a sinner is born again, he or she cannot be "unborn" (John 1:12,13). We are eternally secure because Christ is in us, and we are in Him. Those who do not believe in the eternal security of the believer forget this truth (or choose to ignore it).
 
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Yes it goes along with our subject, but I'm afraid it would start a fire storm because it names names, I think it is more prudent to send it to you via PM and let you decide, so as to not disrupt a Bible study.

Ok, I trust your judgment.
 
Day 70 Monday 11/24/14 Matthew 7:21-23 A Christian? Are you sure?

Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
Matthew 7:22 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"


NOW here is my question to our Bible Study family theologians. How in the world can anyone perform these "works" and not be saved? HOW? I have s few suggestions, I don't know how valid they are though.
1. Some have suggested demon forces. Even though they cast out demons, it was just for show to deceive the public into believing that these "false prophets" could be relied on for instruction from the almighty.
2. The Name of Jesus was so powerful in that first Century that the mere mention of His Name brought a miracle if directed at something that was in an area that Jesus would have changed.

My first thought is that to perform works according to the law never required anyone to be saved, yet under the law these works were required to be made righteous, which is why we so easily fall into the trap of using the law or using our works as our justification. I am not one who would even consider demonic forces so cavalierly. I feel that is more of a cop out for our own lack of understanding. But I do see those spoken of in these passages as believers in Christ, else they would not be performing works in His name to begin with. But to understand better who these people are, and why Jesus would call them workers of iniquity for performing works in His name, then we must seek to better understand the resurrection of Christ, and not just the religious dogma. These people are the dead in Christ. They have accepted Him as there Lord and Savior, and they believe in His atoning work on the cross and the power in His blood for the remission of sin, but they have not accepted by Faith that they have been resurrected in Christ and made partakers of the kingdom. These people still await the promise of the resurrection, they still await for the promise of the kingdom; they wait for the return of their king. And while they wait for their future promises, they perform their works hoping to gain favor with the Lord, yet he tells them to depart from him. But by Faith, we are already resurrected in Christ by his Spirit. By Faith we have already entered into the kingdom of heaven where Christ rules as our King. By Faith we understand that the Spirit of God already dwells within our heart.

There is a scripture that say's God is a God of the living and not the dead (Matt 22:31-33). In John 5:29 we find that those who have done good are resurrected to life, and they that have done evil to the resurrection of damnation. And in Rom 14:9 we find that Christ both died and rose and revived, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.

The people that are pictured here in these verses are those who remain dead in Christ, having not taken hold of the promises by Faith. Instead, they wait upon the return of their Lord and store up works for their justification.
 
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My first thought is that to perform works according to the law never required anyone to be saved, yet under the law these works were required to be made righteous, which is why we so easily fall into the trap of using the law or using our works as our justification. I am not one who would even consider demonic forces so cavalierly. I feel that is more of a cop out for our own lack of understanding. But I do see those spoken of in these passages as believers in Christ, else they would not be performing works in His name to begin with. But to understand better who these people are, and why Jesus would call them workers of iniquity for performing works in His name, then we must seek to better understand the resurrection of Christ, and not just the religious dogma. These people are the dead in Christ. They have accepted Him as there Lord and Savior, and they believe in His atoning work on the cross and the power in His blood for the remission of sin, but they have not accepted by Faith that they have been resurrected in Christ and made partakers of the kingdom. These people still await the promise of the resurrection, they still await for the promise of the kingdom; they wait for the return of their king. And while they wait for their future promises, they perform their works hoping to gain favor with the Lord, yet he tells them to depart from him. But by Faith, we are already resurrected in Christ by his Spirit. By Faith we have already entered into the kingdom of heaven where Christ rules as our King. By Faith we understand that the Spirit of God already dwells within our heart.

There is a scripture that say's God is a God of the living and not the dead (Matt 22:31-33). In John 5:29 we find that those who have done good are resurrected to life, and they that have done evil to the resurrection of damnation. And in Rom 14:9 we find that Christ both died and rose and revived, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.

The people that are pictured here in these verses are those who remain dead in Christ, having not taken hold of the promises by Faith. Instead, they wait upon the return of their Lord and store up works for their justification.

I receive your teaching ezrider. I would like a little more information on what you mean by this statement, "but they have not accepted by Faith that they have been resurrected in Christ and made partakers of the kingdom." It seems to me that it could include a lot of Christians.
 
I receive your teaching ezrider. I would like a little more information on what you mean by this statement, "but they have not accepted by Faith that they have been resurrected in Christ and made partakers of the kingdom." It seems to me that it could include a lot of Christians.

Chopper, I will try and expound on this a bit later. I know resurrection debates can get very heated around here, so I need to be careful so as to not derail this thread. Maybe as this study thread progresses to the scriptures that are relevant to the resurrection, I can expound on it in more detail. I am going to head off to the gym and go swim some laps and think how to appropriately respond.

In the mean time, it really does give new meaning to the scripture: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
 
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The people that are pictured here in these verses are those who remain dead in Christ, having not taken hold of the promises by Faith. Instead, they wait upon the return of their Lord and store up works for their justification.

I believe it would be more accurate to say "spiritually dead". "Dead in Christ" applies to genuine believers who have passed on. But basically this passage refers to Christian "professors" rather than "possessors", who are still in a "natural" state. They have not been born again, and are Christians in name only, therefore they can certainly say "Lord, Lord" and even do "Christian works". There are an awful lot of apostates in Christendom today who profess Christ, but in reality they neither know Him nor believe His Word. There are whole systems of "Christian worship" which are completely at variance with Scripture.
 
Day 71 Tuesday 11/25/14 Matthew 7:24-27 House Builders.

Matthew 7:24 "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."


The word "therefore" indicates that Jesus is finishing His discourse on the Sermon on the mount. Jesus sort of wraps up what he has instructed the masses. I see here that we have to interpret these last verses very carefully because one might think that salvation is obtained thru works and not thru faith alone. Works come after salvation as proof of a re-birth into righteousness. In the O.T. it was different, the change comes in the N.T. in Christ Jesus.

I believe that the "house" represents my Christian life from beginning to the end of my life on earth. I believe that the "rain, floods and wind" represents the adversities of life that test the foundation of my profession. I must be obedient to the Word of God which calls for repentance, acceptance to my Masters commands, His will and total rejection of the thought that my works had nothing to do with my becoming a true believer in the Christ.

Jesus paints a very good picture of two different foundations on which I am to build my future life of dependence and faith. I can't help but believe that the term "rock" is the Christ sent from our Father in heaven. I believe that it is necessary for me to surrender my heart (the totality of who I am) to my Master Jesus each day of my life. Therefore it's like I make sure that my foundation on the Rock Jesus does not get any cracks in it. Jesus is the Mason and He certainly is a sure foundation and never lets it go in disrepair.

For those that build their hope on Jesus thru works, appear to be saved, but when the rain, floods and wind of adversity come, they are swept away to hell, and that is a "great fall"....I think that the parable of the sower and the seed is a great source of understanding just how a person who thinks he is justified thru his works for salvation, will not last very long.

Matthew 13:18 "Hear then the parable of the sower:
13:19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.
13:20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy,
13:21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
13:22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty."


If anyone who reads this study who is not yet a true Christian, what I have posted here is a good place to realize whether or not you are biblically saved. Stop trying to be good so that your good deeds will out weigh the bad deeds in your life, THAT DOES NOT WORK according to God's Word. You must believe by faith that Jesus is God's Son (God in the flesh) and He died so that your sins would be forgiven and you can have a personal relationship with Jesus and His Father. Sins that are not forgiven GOD'S WAY will never save you.
 
Tomorrow's Study: Day 72 Wednesday 11/26/14 Matthew 7:28,29 Wow! What Teaching.

NOTE: I will not be able to post tomorrow as I have to clean the house for Thanksgiving. Yep! While the Wife is away at work, I work in the house like a good husband.

I would appreciate it if those of you who would like to, please help me out and give us your thoughts on these two last verses in chapter 7....thank you.
 
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Yes it goes along with our subject, but I'm afraid it would start a fire storm because it names names, I think it is more prudent to send it to you via PM and let you decide, so as to not disrupt a Bible study.
Ok, I trust your judgment.
Just go to YouTube, search the word 'Kundalini', and it will be up the video about including one about it invading the Church.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
 
Just go to YouTube, search the word 'Kundalini', and it will be up the video about including one about it invading the Church.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Deb, I really trust your judgment. Did you view the video, and should it be included in our focus on false prophets? Or start a different thread with the focus of false prophets and teachers invading the church?
 
My first thought is that to perform works according to the law never required anyone to be saved, yet under the law these works were required to be made righteous, which is why we so easily fall into the trap of using the law or using our works as our justification. I am not one who would even consider demonic forces so cavalierly. I feel that is more of a cop out for our own lack of understanding. But I do see those spoken of in these passages as believers in Christ, else they would not be performing works in His name to begin with. But to understand better who these people are, and why Jesus would call them workers of iniquity for performing works in His name, then we must seek to better understand the resurrection of Christ, and not just the religious dogma. These people are the dead in Christ. They have accepted Him as there Lord and Savior, and they believe in His atoning work on the cross and the power in His blood for the remission of sin, but they have not accepted by Faith that they have been resurrected in Christ and made partakers of the kingdom. These people still await the promise of the resurrection, they still await for the promise of the kingdom; they wait for the return of their king. And while they wait for their future promises, they perform their works hoping to gain favor with the Lord, yet he tells them to depart from him. But by Faith, we are already resurrected in Christ by his Spirit. By Faith we have already entered into the kingdom of heaven where Christ rules as our King. By Faith we understand that the Spirit of God already dwells within our heart.

There is a scripture that say's God is a God of the living and not the dead (Matt 22:31-33). In John 5:29 we find that those who have done good are resurrected to life, and they that have done evil to the resurrection of damnation. And in Rom 14:9 we find that Christ both died and rose and revived, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.

The people that are pictured here in these verses are those who remain dead in Christ, having not taken hold of the promises by Faith. Instead, they wait upon the return of their Lord and store up works for their justification.
I receive your teaching ezrider. I would like a little more information on what you mean by this statement, "but they have not accepted by Faith that they have been resurrected in Christ and made partakers of the kingdom." It seems to me that it could include a lot of Christians.
This is my understanding of these scriptures..............
I think that scriptures can easily be taken out of context.
Jesus said these things BEFORE the cross.
Jesus said these things to the people who were living under the 'OLD COVENANT'. Jews not Gentiles. NOT that people after the cross cannot be guilty of the same things, they can.

Jesus had told the apostles Not to stop the man who was casting out demons in HIS NAME. He did not say that man WAS one of them. He said that what the man was doing was Not against them.
What did the people crying "Lord, Lord" say and what did the Lord reply?
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
1) They arrogantly claimed that THEY had done these works in His name, rather than claiming that God had done these works through them. That because of what THEY had done they should be received by Him. This is like the rich young ruler and like the Pharisees and their tithing even of their herbs. They could only go so far. The rich young ruler could not give all (sadness but no conversion) and the Pharisees put on a show of their OWN tithing even of their herb plants but they forgot the more important things of mercy.
2) "I NEVER knew you." They were not know by Him as one of His, not EVER. They never converted.

I can confidently say these people were not believers in Jesus as the Redeemer of their people. They were like the man who used Jesus name to cast out demons. Rather like waving a magic wand and saying abracadabra.
When Jesus said they were workers of iniquity He could not have been referring to casting out demons, etc. in His name or His apostles would have been in error and He didn't say that about the man who was doing that, Jesus would have never said let him do it, he's not against us, if that was the iniquity here.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

What is this fruit that we should see? The will of the Father in their lives. What is His will?
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
 
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Deb, I really trust your judgment. Did you view the video, and should it be included in our focus on false prophets? Or start a different thread with the focus of false prophets and teachers invading the church?
No I did not watch it. I suppose someone could start a separate thread but I don't think it should be discussed here. That's just my opinion.