Bible Study WELCOME TO AN IN DEPTH STUDY OF MATTHEW'S GOSPEL.

[Hospes]

Hi Hospes,
I agree with the above and reread my post 1497 and just want to say that I didn't mean that using Jesus' power is going to get us all we want. There are no magic words. God's Providence is God's Providence. And all must be accepted.

We are always to pray His will. Also, I'd like to repeat what I said earlier and that's that the reason we pray is to communicate with God. God is our Father, we pray through Jesus, our Brother who shared our earthly life and flesh and who is present with God and is our proper representation, having been one of us, that bridge between us and God. It's with the authority of Jesus that we are able to approach God Almighty.

W

W, I had no one but myself in mind when I wrote the post. Honest! It's just something I learned in the past that I thought may be good input.

 

[GodsGrace]

W, I had no one but myself in mind when I wrote the post. Honest! It's just something I learned in the past that I thought may be good input.

When I reread my no. 1497 it did seem like I was saying Jesus' authority will get you what you want.
Sometimes we don't say what we mean.
I know you probably didn't mean me, but I'm glad I could clarify.
No problem Hospes.


Wondering

 

[Chopper]

February 22 2016 Matthew 18:21,22 Lets Talk About Forgiveness.

Matthew 18:21 "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven."

Before we get into the parable about the land owner, lets nail down forgiveness so that we are confident in what exactly it is according to the Word of God.

I'll start off by asking each one of you of how you approach forgiveness yourself. Are there problems with forgiveness? What are the benefits? What exactly is forgiveness? Can we forgive and forget? These are just some topics of discussion.

 

[reba]

I'll stick my neck out... this is my opinion ..
Forgiveness is more important to the one forgiving then to the one being forgiven...

As far as forgetting ... some things are not to be forgotten .... forgiveness does not mean one must put themselves in harm's way..
Would i trust the child molester to baby set NOPE .

 

[RevSRE]

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. The High Priest represented the priest hood as the leader the senior the teacher, Jesus is our High Priest leading us to God, BUT every Christian is a priest of the Most High God.

1. We are the temple of God Indwelled by the Holy Spirit.
1Co_3:17 If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
1Co_6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
We are Priest of the Most High GOD. Jesus is OUR High Priest. AS A PRIEST of God we may come to Him with our petitions.
A royal priest hood to make sacrifices and offerings to HIM.
1Pe 2:9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellences of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

 

[Malachi]

...Jesus is our High Priest leading us to God, BUT every Christian is a priest of the Most High God.

And yet this is rarely taught or practised in many Christian circles. Many even set up a man-made priesthood above the priesthood of believers.

 

[RevSRE]

I'll start off by asking each one of you of how you approach forgiveness yourself. Are there problems with forgiveness? What are the benefits? What exactly is forgiveness? Can we forgive and forget? .

Are there problems with forgiveness?
You bet there are IT IS HARD TO DO!!
We mostly live by the "fool me once........" and I ll forgive you ONCE..." Well that is not what Christ said. To unconditionally forgive is hard.
I saw a post that said," If he wrongs you forgive him, BUT REMEMBER HIS NAME!" I do not think that is it either.
What are the benefits?
Mat_6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Mat_18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
I do not want to be on the wrong side of this one. God said if I do not forgive, He will not either. I need all the help I can get, so I have to TRY to forgive.
What exactly is forgiveness?
Matthew 6:14-15
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Refusing to forgive is a sin. If we receive forgiveness from God, we must give it to others who hurt us. We cannot hold grudges or seek revenge. We are to trust God for justice and forgive the person who offended us. Forgiveness means releasing the other from blame, leaving the event in God's hands, and moving on.
Can we forgive and forget?
IT can be done in Christ but humanly it is not an easy thing to do!!

 

[Malachi]

Can we forgive and forget?

Since God not only forgives and forgets, Christians have no choice in the matter. Therefore to forgive is also to forget.

 

[RevSRE]

And yet this is rarely taught or practised in many Christian circles. Many even set up a man-made priesthood above the priesthood of believers.

Yes Malachi, I get in all kind of trouble teaching this truth!

 

[reba]

do you let known bad guys around your kids..

 

[ezrider]

Mat_6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Mat_18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
I do not want to be on the wrong side of this one. God said if I do not forgive, He will not either. I need all the help I can get, so I have to TRY to forgive.

That is worth repeating, and worth meditating upon. Forgiveness, is that not the will of the Father? Be ye perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.

The act of forgiveness is only difficult when we continue to look only at the sin itself. Many people would take the verses you posted as a command unto itself that then must be obeyed. The forgiveness of sin then becomes an obligation and a law unto itself. And as is our nature, we find it difficult to remain obedient to the law.

So I would suggest that we not look at individual sins that we are obligated to forgive one another, but seek rather a forgiving nature instead. Seek after the nature that is in Christ. Christ has made us free from sin and death, so that we may look upon our own sins with a clear conscience, without the fear of God's wrath. When we stop trying to hide our own sins under the Blood of Christ and instead search them out, we can begin to understand our own condition, and while the lusts of my flesh may appear different than the lust in the flesh of someone else, they are still lusts of the flesh none the less. Who am I to condemn someone when I am guilty of the same.

Sins are of the flesh, but a forgiving nature is of the spirit. I would agree with what reba said in her post. Forgiveness is more important to the one doing the forgiving. A forgiving nature is one that forgives before being asked for forgiveness. We are called to be spiritually minded, so the act of forgiving without being asked for forgiveness allows the believer to remain spiritually minded. But if someone wrongs me and I do not forgive them immediately within my heart, then the human nature takes over and and I will dwell on it until it boils into anger, and that does me no good. That does not mean I must announce that forgiveness to the offending party before they ask for it, but for my own sake I must forgive them in my heart so their sin does not cause me to walk in the flesh.

Jesus said to first take the beam out of your own eye. Well, I haven't quite figured out how to do that yet, because that beam remains. But knowing that the beam is still firmly planted in my eye, when I see the sins in others, I can be sure that they are probably in me as well. By seeing the sin in others, I can then see past the beam that remains in my own eye, so I can understand the heart of the matter.

Forgiveness. It is something that the Law can not teach you. But we have a teacher who can!

 

[RevSRE]

do you let known bad guys around your kids..

Never ever at all not maybe never no way. (was I clear)

But, this brings up another question. DO WE FORGIVE THE "BAD GUY" THE UNREPENTANT VILLEIN. This is one of those questions of where do we start forgiveness. When we forgive and release the one that did wrong, Is that when they repent and care.
What do we owe the unrepentant BAD GUY that remains evil and makes no move to change.
This is a real question I DO NOT KNOW!

 

[reba]

yup ,,,, thanks

 

[Chopper]

That is worth repeating, and worth meditating upon. Forgiveness, is that not the will of the Father? Be ye perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.

The act of forgiveness is only difficult when we continue to look only at the sin itself. Many people would take the verses you posted as a command unto itself that then must be obeyed. The forgiveness of sin then becomes an obligation and a law unto itself. And as is our nature, we find it difficult to remain obedient to the law.

So I would suggest that we not look at individual sins that we are obligated to forgive one another, but seek rather a forgiving nature instead. Seek after the nature that is in Christ. Christ has made us free from sin and death, so that we may look upon our own sins with a clear conscience, without the fear of God's wrath. When we stop trying to hide our own sins under the Blood of Christ and instead search them out, we can begin to understand our own condition, and while the lusts of my flesh may appear different than the lust in the flesh of someone else, they are still lusts of the flesh none the less. Who am I to condemn someone when I am guilty of the same.

Sins are of the flesh, but a forgiving nature is of the spirit. I would agree with what reba said in her post. Forgiveness is more important to the one doing the forgiving. A forgiving nature is one that forgives before being asked for forgiveness. We are called to be spiritually minded, so the act of forgiving without being asked for forgiveness allows the believer to remain spiritually minded. But if someone wrongs me and I do not forgive them immediately within my heart, then the human nature takes over and and I will dwell on it until it boils into anger, and that does me no good. That does not mean I must announce that forgiveness to the offending party before they ask for it, but for my own sake I must forgive them in my heart so their sin does not cause me to walk in the flesh.

Jesus said to first take the beam out of your own eye. Well, I haven't quite figured out how to do that yet, because that beam remains. But knowing that the beam is still firmly planted in my eye, when I see the sins in others, I can be sure that they are probably in me as well. By seeing the sin in others, I can then see past the beam that remains in my own eye, so I can understand the heart of the matter.

Forgiveness. It is something that the Law can not teach you. But we have a teacher who can!

Bravo EZ, that's a wonderful post there. I really like this statement of yours "for my own sake I must forgive them in my heart so their sin does not cause me to walk in the flesh." O boy is that true!!

 

[Chopper]

do you let known bad guys around your kids..

NO WAY!!

 

[Chopper]

Never ever at all not maybe never no way. (was I clear)

But, this brings up another question. DO WE FORGIVE THE "BAD GUY" THE UNREPENTANT VILLEIN. This is one of those questions of where do we start forgiveness. When we forgive and release the one that did wrong, Is that when they repent and care.
What do we owe the unrepentant BAD GUY that remains evil and makes no move to change.
This is a real question I DO NOT KNOW!

You are right Stephen. EZ has really given good answers. We have to forgive the villain in our heart so that the rage against such a sin will not fester and activate our flesh. After that, it's only wise not to let the villain close to his victim.

 

[Hospes]

Sometimes, it's been a real eye-opener for me to look at the Greek word used in a verse and see where else it is used in the scripture, ideally within the same book. Maybe more than any other time, this was the case with the word "forgive". Here are some other scriptures where Matthew uses the word. (I have underlined the English translation) :

But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented. (Matthew 3:15 ESV)
Immediately they left their nets and followed him. (Matthew 4:20 ESV)
...leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.. (Matthew 5:24 ESV)
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, 'Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’ (Matthew 13:30 ESV)
Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit. (Matthew 15:14 ESV)
but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”(Matthew 19:14 ESV)​

These verses indicate to me a major part - if not the heart - of forgiveness is a spiritual "letting go"; a disengagement and a walking away from something I am holding onto. And it explains why Reba is right in saying the biggest benefactor of forgiveness is the forgiver. Unforgiveness is a horrible burden to carry, so to disengage from it, turn away, and leave is a wonderful loss.

Recently, when I tell someone about this, it's been predictable to have someone start singing "Let it go" from Frozen. Actually, the spirit of that song carries some real elements of the freedom gained in forgiveness. Its popularity confirms the world desperately desires what we have found in Christ Jesus.

[Full disclosure: I know very little of Greek. I simply know how to use a computer.]

 

[eddif]

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The answer, to forgiveness, is probably going to take some time.

Ultimately there can be no carved in stone rules for forgiveness. We each want grace to be applied to ourselves (forgive us like we forgive others).

So I say to myself:
You are never going to come up with rules / actions to forgive anyone (either your rules or theirs). To forgive multiple times this is going to have to be a grace forgiveness.

So through / by faith this forgiveness must happen. No discussion; no reservations; etc.

Maybe floating / bendable discussion
Maybe through church discipline
Looking to Jesus who died for us ahead of time.

No demands on how. A gift of forgiveness.

eddif

 

[RevSRE]

These verses indicate to me a major part - if not the heart - of forgiveness is a spiritual "letting go"; a disengagement and a walking away from something I am holding onto. And it explains why Reba is right in saying the biggest benefactor of forgiveness is the forgiver. Unforgiveness is a horrible burden to carry, so to disengage from it, turn away, and leave is a wonderful loss.

The word is ἀφίημι - Phonetic: af-ee'-ay-mee
to omit, neglect, to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit, to give up, keep no longer
to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person, to leave, go way from one

I think you may have found the meaning. As has been said "I give up or release my feelings and let it all go" Not for the sake of the one forgiven but that I may be free from the wrong.

 

[GodsGrace]

To Forgive is Human
To Forget Divine

Although I don't understand it, I think forgiving goes beyond the idea that it benefits us, the forgiver, more than the forgiven. This is pretty obvious. Non-forgiveness of a person holds hate tight and does not give you the opportunity to heal of the hurt caused by the other person. It's absolutely necessary to forgive.

Forgiving is a matter of the will. I may not WANT to forgive someone, but I WILL to forgive them. You're supposed to pray for the person you're forgiving. At first it may not feel any differently. You still get upset if you pass them on the street. But as time passes you feel the hurt less, or the hate less, and eventually you feel nothing at all and it's at this point that forgiveness has gone from the head to the heart. But the act of the other person will never be forgotten.

It will never be forgotten even if there is reconciliation. How do we forget? We're only human after all. And, many times there is no reconciliation, but that's okay too - we forgave.

I read once that if we don't forgive, we are hindering God somehow in how He treats us. This I've never understood. It would be nice to have some views on this.

A good way to approach forgiveness for me, is to realize how all of us are not perfect. How we all have made mistakes and hurt others - even unwillingly. To see that the other person is being guided by evil forces and to actually feel sorry for them. If you could feel sorry for them and pray for them, you're on your way.

Also, I understand that we could only forgive persons who do us harm personally. I can't forgive Mary up the block because she mistreated Helen. Helen will have to forgive Mary. I'd also like other views on this, if possible.

And last but not least. Yes. I do have a problem with one aspect of forgiveness. I can't forgive totally evil people. Am I supposed to?? Like Stalin, or Hitler, Joseph Mengele, mass murderers and others who I feel are almost evil incarnate. It makes me feel like I would be forgiving satan himself. The evil is too evil and the dark too dark. I see no light in them at all.

Wondering