Were early Christians much more obedient?

[Gordon]

I was reading about early Christians and how in Acts they sold their property to share with the church. How they faced persecution and torture. How just the love and humility they showed won converts. Also how many went into the desert and became monks to live a Godly life. I started to get the impression they took all this much more seriously than we do today. Do you think this is really true though? For example sex before marriage is the norm today, do you think it was the norm then? If the first Christians saw us today do you think they would be dissapointed? Or do you think as a whole Christians are basically the same and those early examples were the exception rather than the norm?

 

[Carolyn]

Yes, early Christians were full of love and willingly supported the poor widows who were joining the early church by the dorves. However, this contributed to their extreme poverty during the drought, so that they had to be supported by other churches later on.
I am not aware of anyone but Paul going out in the desert during Bible times. God instructed him to do that for a few years so that he could be taught the Gospel and grow as a Christian before being sent out to the Gentiles. Meanwhile things cooled down for him a bit. He was not readily accepted or trusted since he had been having Christians imprisoned and killed. Jesus told us to be in the world but not of the world. He never meant for us to withdraw from the world to "be more holy". We were to be salt and light. Monks were like Peter on the Mount of Transfigueation. He wanted to stay up there on the mountain top. Jesus rebuked him.
Sex before marriage was not the norm among the Jews. Women found to not be virgins were stoned to death by law. Joseph had mercy on Mary and wanted to just divorce her in secret. However in the pagan world most woment became temple prostitutes which is why they burned their babies alive in sacrifice to Baal.
Temple prostitues were also common in Greece and Rome. Orgies were a way of life. That is why God told us not to be deceived, none of the people who practice these things will go to heaven. That includes fornication--any kind of sex outside of marriage.
I do think that Christians who are under persecution today or in the first century take their faith much more seriously. In many lands people who convert to Christianity lose their jobs and are kicked our of their homes with only the clothes on their back. They are shunned by all. In India they are lower than lepers.
So they losed everything to gain Christ.
Read Fox's Book of Martyrs.

It would not surprise me if we were to be persecuted for being Christians in the near future, the way that our world is changing. What will you do if these things occur? How strong is your faith? Will you give up everything, even your life, to follow Jesus? How obedient are you and how seriously do you take it all?

 

[Gordon]

I was thinking about the televangelist spiritual leaders we have and how they all have multi million dollar homes. I don't think this would have happened in the early church. Even one of my neighbors is a pastor and lives on a lake. I'm just thinking that $10000 in property taxes his congregation is paying could be going to his ministry.

I find the monks really interesting. John the Baptist lived in the wilderness and ate insects and Jesus said none had risen higher than him. So I wonder if the monks had it all wrong like some people suggest.

 

[Hammer]

You can read Paul's letter and see that many church goers weren't perfect saints. One church had a member committing incest. People at another church were getting drunk on communion wine. But, they were light years more obedient than the average Christian today. Persecution tends to drive away the posers.

 

[eduardo]

Consider this: if they had the tech we have today they would be greatly distracted as we are. So, were they more in tune? Yes , but they still had issues. In fact, their days had to be shortened for our salvation for us to have a chance at living. In our day thats not an option anymore. This IS the last generation.

 

[Knotical]

The culture was remarkably different back then. Not only did they have less to distract them, they also were a rather superstitious people, therefore, fear of the unknown, and made up evils, were constantly used to keep them in line.

Today, not only are people less superstitious we also have a lot more going on, and have less time for cordiality

 

[Gordon]

Consider this: if they had the tech we have today they would be greatly distracted as we are.

I guess that's true but it's not a good excuse. I think it's easier to love your neighbor and God when you aren't going hungry or facing torture. We are so blessed and we give 3% to charity. They were getting killed and some gave everything to charity.

 

[Hammer]

Technology has lowered the material cost of sin. But, that's not why we sin more. Technology also makes living the sinless life easier.

The world was more unknown in the past. That's not why we sin more. We should know even better today not to sin.

We sin more because we've made our enemies our leaders, and they've led us into sin.

 

[Gordon]

We sin more because we've made our enemies our leaders, and they've led us into sin.

What do you mean by this if you don't mind me asking?

 

[eduardo]

Wait a minute. Superstitions are ramped today, way more then any other time. And we see and do things that were never seen or done before in any other time. Our distructive ability's are more devastating then any other time. Our ability to communicate is way more then any other time. Our method of disception is more cunning then any other time. And in the end we will wipe ourselfves out with our own creations. This was not done any other time in the worlds history. If we were capable of bringing someone from then to now they would go crazy with confusion. Just like we would if we were taken to heaven in our current state of being. Think of the visions the prohets were given beyond their comprehensions of todays evils. They thought our machinerys (revelations) were some sort of creatures because they had nothing else to compare. This is the last generation and the devil is more busy today trying to destroy us then any other time because his time is basically up. Never in history has man been advanced in knowlegde then any other time. But its not to our advantage. The only advance we made thats helpful is knowing we are the last and there will never be anymore gen's after us. Consider these things.

 

[Knotical]

Wait a minute. Superstitions are ramped today, way more then any other time. And we see and do things that were never seen or done before in any other time. Our distructive ability's are more devastating then any other time. Our ability to communicate is way more then any other time. Our method of disception is more cunning then any other time. And in the end we will wipe ourselfves out with our own creations. This was not done any other time in the worlds history. If we were capable of bringing someone from then to now they would go crazy with confusion. Just like we would if we were taken to heaven in our current state of being. Think of the visions the prohets were given beyond their comprehensions of todays evils. They thought our machinerys (revelations) were some sort of creatures because they had nothing else to compare. This is the last generation and the devil is more busy today trying to destroy us then any other time because his time is basically up. Never in history has man been advanced in knowlegde then any other time. But its not to our advantage. The only advance we made thats helpful is knowing we are the last and there will never be anymore gen's after us. Consider these things.

What superstitions do we have now that they did not have back then? Unless you are referring to conspiracy theories as superstitions?

 

[abide]

I was reading about early Christians and how in Acts they sold their property to share with the church. How they faced persecution and torture. How just the love and humility they showed won converts. Also how many went into the desert and became monks to live a Godly life. I started to get the impression they took all this much more seriously than we do today. Do you think this is really true though? For example sex before marriage is the norm today, do you think it was the norm then? If the first Christians saw us today do you think they would be dissapointed? Or do you think as a whole Christians are basically the same and those early examples were the exception rather than the norm?

I would say yes. From reading the book of Acts, it shows that the early church was a loving church. They cared about each other and hospitable.
They were interested in the welfare of the brethren.. I think they LIVED Christianity...in essence they walked the walk, not just talk the talk.

 

[eduardo]

What superstitions do we have now that they did not have back then? Unless you are referring to conspiracy theories as superstitions?

Exactly. Our society today creates more believable theory's the any other time with the power to bring'em to life with imaging and TV magic. We're so vain we believe our movies/actors even when we know its fiction. Go figure. Our commercials are designed to make you belive this product is good for you. As a Visual Communications major, 2000, our teachings were to make the public believe the hype because thats what the businesses are paying you for. We would put character in lettering with logical impact. When you see a commercial its so well designed that many will buy the product, go to the place, or send money just because of the hype. I chose to be an art teacher and not mislead the public. God gave me a conscious. Look at the picture of Jesus we have all over and the most affective one is white skinned, blue eyes, and long flowing hair. Thats not how he looks because no one knows exactly. I've seen Afro Jesus', Indian Jesus', etc. These were not their ability's then to create photography with realisum. Even our fashion mags show beauty thats not real but our women get all in. It was these times that our God says knowledge will increase and He didn't mean that in a good way.

 

[Knotical]

Exactly. Our society today creates more believable theory's the any other time with the power to bring'em to life with imaging and TV magic. We're so vain we believe our movies/actors even when we know its fiction. Go figure. Our commercials are designed to make you belive this product is good for you. As a Visual Communications major, 2000, our teachings were to make the public believe the hype because thats what the businesses are paying you for. We would put character in lettering with logical impact. When you see a commercial its so well designed that many will buy the product, go to the place, or send money just because of the hype. I chose to be an art teacher and not mislead the public. God gave me a conscious. Look at the picture of Jesus we have all over and the most affective one is white skinned, blue eyes, and long flowing hair. Thats not how he looks because no one knows exactly. I've seen Afro Jesus', Indian Jesus', etc. These were not their ability's then to create photography with realisum. Even our fashion mags show beauty thats not real but our women get all in. It was these times that our God says knowledge will increase and He didn't mean that in a good way.

I don't completely agree with your assessment here, considering our culture is remarkably more cynical than we ever have been. Sure, people get duped all the time, just look at what goes on on the internet, but I would not call it superstition, I would call it playing on gullibility. And things are much more easily dis-proven.

 

[Gordon]

I don't completely agree with your assessment here, considering our culture is remarkably more cynical than we ever have been. Sure, people get duped all the time, just look at what goes on on the internet, but I would not call it superstition, I would call it playing on gullibility. And things are much more easily dis-proven.

We are more cynical but we're still superstitous. The history channel is devoted to ancient aliens. Discovery has Bigfoot. Sci fi is ghosts. People care about astrology still. So many people play the lottery and believe in lucky numbers or something. We aren't all that logical.

 

[Knotical]

We are more cynical but we're still superstitous. The history channel is devoted to ancient aliens. Discovery has Bigfoot. Sci fi is ghosts. People care about astrology still. So many people play the lottery and believe in lucky numbers or something. We aren't all that logical.

What you are describing does not really have anything to do with superstition. Bigfoot is just an unproven idea that people keep posting fuzzy pictures of, yet most people do not believe it exists.

Aliens is a little trickier as we really don't know if there are any out there. Who knows if God put life on other planets than just ours.

The lottery is just wishful thinking, though, I do agree there are superstitious people that use the same numbers in the false hope of actually winning something.

Ghosts are also a tricky subject as there is plenty of evidence to support both sides, however, you must agree that there are invisible powers (demons, etc...) at work in this world.

I will assert, without actually having done the research, that there is a smaller percentage of people today that are superstitious than there were back then.

 

[Eugene]

Hi Gordon. The heart of man is unchanged through the ages excepting individuals rising to the occasion of the trial of their faith.

E.g.

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Acts 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

Acts 15:39 And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus;

Matthew 26:72 And again he Peter) denied with an oath, I do not know the man (Jesus).

We grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, and are led into paths of righteousness by God for his name's sake. We are His workmanship according to Ephesians 2:10, and He ain't done with us yet.

 

[Gordon]

Hi Gordon. The heart of man is unchanged through the ages excepting individuals rising to the occasion of the trial of their faith.

E.g.

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Acts 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

Acts 15:39 And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus;

Matthew 26:72 And again he Peter) denied with an oath, I do not know the man (Jesus).

We grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, and are led into paths of righteousness by God for his name's sake. We are His workmanship according to Ephesians 2:10, and He ain't done with us yet.

Hi. What about when Jesus talked about how that specific generation was wicked? Would this indicate that through the ages it varied somewhat? You'd think it couldn't be too different as human nature hasn't changed just the circumstances of how we live.

 

[Eugene]

Hi. What about when Jesus talked about how that specific generation was wicked? Would this indicate that through the ages it varied somewhat? You'd think it couldn't be too different as human nature hasn't changed just the circumstances of how we live.

Jesus referred to some as adulterous, faithless, sinful, vipers, and wicked.

Our old nature is always with us that we're to count as dead, and we can do anything the world will. Paul had an awful battle with it in Romans Chapter Seven; the very thing he didn't want to do was what he ended uo doing. We only overcome that by following the Holy Spirit instead of the flesh (Romans 8:4).

You asked if I thought that through the ages it varied somewhat, and I would say no. I.e., Genesis 19:5 "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them." Do you know what they were asking? These men wanted to know them as one would his wife. That hasn't changed today, and even some Christians are tolerating it in the churches. In fact men wax worse, and only through God working in us to will, and to do of His good pleasure do we become separated unto a holy walk with Him.

Circumstances in this country I live allow me convenience and opportunity above that of many nations, but the draw of the world must be overcome regardless of conditions we face, and that is the flesh (Carnality) of the old man. We are new in Christ and as we allow God to conform us unto the image of his Son we will no longer lack in anything that He wants for our lives.

 

[eduardo]

I don't completely agree with your assessment here, considering our culture is remarkably more cynical than we ever have been. Sure, people get duped all the time, just look at what goes on on the internet, but I would not call it superstition, I would call it playing on gullibility. And things are much more easily dis-proven.

Maybe you have a different interpretation of superstition. Mine is believing in things that are not real. A woman who believes she's better looking with make-up and a wig, not real. Actors are stars, not real. Diet pills, not real. Abnormal physical love, not real. We can make the world a better place by ourselfves, not real. And I could go on for days. I stopped listening to myself long ago, my friend, when I realized the person I thought I was, wasn't real. Superstitons go very deep into the heart and we have wide screen TV's now for a panaramic view of fake images that fully engulf our eyesight, and sound to build our adrenaline. Soon we'll have smell to top it all off. What better way to input superstitions? To be so smart we're the dumbest, killing more people by our own designs then any other time before. We look like we are advancing doesn't it? Well look at what our bible says is the end results of our advancements. Our own demise. We make nuclear bombs to kill ourselfves. How smart is that? So how much more disciplined were they, the christians, back then compared to us? See if we can through away our cell phones, our TV's, our microwaves, our stereo's, right now and have nothing but the bible to entertain you?