What are the chances?

[Gabbylittleangel]

...Is it ok to love god, just not in the mainstream way? I say it is.

Curious, you describe a 'do it yourself' religion. God, being God, insist that we do things His way. The good news is that God is good. He loves us. He wants us to come back to Him. He thinks we are to die for.

You asked many questions and made several accusations that God has answers to. However, He only reveals the answers to those who seek Him with a humble heart. When a child of God asks Him "Why?" He searches the heart. He knows who comes to him seeking the truth with a belief that God is righteous, Holy, just and true. One who wants to understand the ways of the Father.

When one ask questions in the manner that you asked them, God sees them as an accusation coming from someone who believes that they are more righteous and more wise and more fair and more understanding than God. He rarely answers such questions. There is one example in Scripture that comes to mind though, I will spare you the entire two chapters of God asking Job "Who do you think you are?" but here is the beginning and end of that conversation that left Job in the dust.

Job 38:1 ¶ Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
Job 38:2 Who [is] this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. ....

...Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct [him]? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.


Curious, there is such a high price to pay for not knowing or understanding God. I truly suggest that you spend some time alone with God, and tell Him that if He is indeed righteous, Holy, just and true, that you would like to know Him.

 

[Ruben]

Gabby,
For the sake of argument if we were required to give our testimony in the form of judging Jehovah can you imagine what you might say and/or testify regarding Him?

As mentioned earlier, ‘Isa 45:23-24
23 By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear.
24 They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone
are righteousness and strength.'"
All who have raged against him
will come to him and be put to shame.
NIV

Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess to God’s righteousness. Does God force those that have not learned of His perfection to bow before Him? Why would He do so, an ego thing? I don’t think so, every tongue will confess out of conviction through understanding and ultimately knowing the true character of the Father. The knees will bow because at long last all beings realize that the Father is innocent of any wrongs charged against Him. All creatures through out the universe will recognize Jehovah is the loving and caring Father to all and is worthy of our worship.

It is not only okay to judge Jehovah it is something that will be required of us through out eternity.

 

[jgredline]

39 Ellos le contestaron, y le dijeron: Abraham es nuestro padre. Jesús les dijo*: Si sois hijos de Abraham, haced las obras de Abraham.
40 Pero ahora procuráis matarme, a mí que os he dicho la verdad que oí de Dios. Esto no lo hizo Abraham.
41 Vosotros hacéis las obras de vuestro padre. Ellos le dijeron: Nosotros no nacimos de fornicación; tenemos un Padre, es decir, Dios.
42 Jesús les dijo: Si Dios fuera vuestro Padre, me amaríais, porque yo salí de Dios y vine de El, pues no he venido por mi propia iniciativa, sino que El me envió.
43 ¿Por qué no entendéis lo que digo? Porque no podéis oír mi palabra.
44 Sois de vuestro padre el diablo y queréis hacer los deseos de vuestro padre. El fue un homicida desde el principio, y no se ha mantenido en la verdad porque no hay verdad en él. Cuando habla mentira, habla de su propia naturaleza, porque es mentiroso y el padre de la mentira.
45 Pero porque yo digo la verdad, no me creéis.
46 ¿Quién de vosotros me prueba que tengo pecado? Y si digo verdad, ¿por qué vosotros no me creéis?
47 El que es de Dios escucha las palabras de Dios; por eso vosotros no escucháis, porque no sois de Dios.

 

[Guest]

When one ask questions in the manner that you asked them, God sees them as an accusation coming from someone who believes that they are more righteous and more wise and more fair and more understanding than God. He rarely answers such questions

If your god is truly omnipotent and I am truly his creation, then he knows that I cannot be more rightous, wise and fair than him, and nothing that I say to him can insult him, just by being curious? You believe what you want, i'm a born skeptic, and if god is interested in proving his existance to me he will do so.

Curious, there is such a high price to pay for not knowing or understanding God. I truly suggest that you spend some time alone with God, and tell Him that if He is indeed righteous, Holy, just and true, that you would like to know Him.

High price? Bring on hell i say! When i'm alone, i'll ask for god. But how do I call for him? Do I all out Jehova? Yaweh? Allah? Zues? Prometheus? Who do I call for? Or should I just say god and hope he answers?

Have you heard god in your head?

 

[Veritas]

Curious, are you really interested?

You say "bring on hell". It sounds good in the movies, but do you really mean that?

Call on as many gods as you like, and see if they answer.

If you are truely seeking Jesus and call out to Him I guarantee He will answer you. ...and that's not really my guarantee but His.

 

[Guest]

If you are truely seeking Jesus and call out to Him I guarantee He will answer you. ...and that's not really my guarantee but His.

I'm truly seeking the truth man. If i'm truly seeking Jesus and him alone, then I already unconditionally believe. Can't do that without proving it to me, i'm a skeptic, I was born that way, and thats who I am.

Think about it.... everyone has that little voice in the back of their head. If you truly believe in christianity, it's jesus, the holy spirit, whatever you want to call it. If your muslim it's allah. If you're an ancient egyptian, it's ra. If you're a skeptic, all that little voice is, is you, your subconcious telling you things.

Curious, are you really interested?

I am interested. Just because I don't perscribe to any organized religion doesn't mean I enjoy reading these boards... I do much more reading than posting. Occassionally something tickles my fancy and i'll write.

Sometimes, like the above post, i'm looking for reactions. This helps me understand the point of view of others, and I hope you don't take these more "abrasive" posts as insults, they are not meant to be.

You say "bring on hell". It sounds good in the movies, but do you really mean that?

Onto hell. Well, as described by the fanciest of imaginations, i'm not too particularly keen on it. Do I think it exists? As much as I think heaven does. Seems way too simplistic to me, and if there is an afterlife i'm hoping it'll be much grander than eternal bliss or eternal torment. I'm betting that just like on this planet, any afterlife is what you make of it. And if there is nothing? Heck, who cares, I won't have any conciousness to care!

 

[Veritas]

Curious, I didn't want to hijack this thread...come over here please:

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=28334

 

[stranger]

Does anybody on this web page give merit to the idealogy that ; in the Day of Judgment it will not be God judging mankind but mankind judging God?

Hi Ruben,

If by 'the Day of Judgment' you mean 'Armageddon' then the idealogy may fit into the end time scenario - humanities last antichrist stand, a final attempt to cast God's cords aside (Psalm 2).

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Gabby,
For the sake of argument if we were required to give our testimony in the form of judging Jehovah can you imagine what you might say and/or testify regarding Him?

As mentioned earlier, ‘Isa 45:23-24
23 By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear.
24 They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone
are righteousness and strength.'"
All who have raged against him
will come to him and be put to shame.
NIV

Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess to God’s righteousness. Does God force those that have not learned of His perfection to bow before Him? Why would He do so, an ego thing? I don’t think so, every tongue will confess out of conviction through understanding and ultimately knowing the true character of the Father. The knees will bow because at long last all beings realize that the Father is innocent of any wrongs charged against Him. All creatures through out the universe will recognize Jehovah is the loving and caring Father to all and is worthy of our worship.

It is not only okay to judge Jehovah it is something that will be required of us through out eternity.

Just like screaming and jumping up and down comes natural at a ball game, meeting a celebrity invokes nervousness, presents under a Christmas tree inspire wide eyed wonder, and watching babies be cute inspires an "Awww." I believe that the reaction will come natural. The thought as you stand before Him, and see that He is bigger than life, and He stands in all of His glory....(the song "We Shall Behold Him" just popped into my head) we can not help but give him all of the honor and praise that is due Him.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

High price? Bring on hell i say! When i'm alone, i'll ask for god. But how do I call for him? Do I all out Jehova? Yaweh? Allah? Zues? Prometheus? Who do I call for? Or should I just say god and hope he answers?

Have you heard god in your head?

Deu 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find [him], if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

Pro 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Have you heard god in your head?

WHAT!?! :o You think that a God who can speak and the world come into being, who can say 'Let there be light' then light is, who can speak and divide the ocean from dry land, night from day, and the heavens from the earth, is capable of speaking to me?
:roll:

 

[Guest]

Oops, edited due to an itchy mouse finger :P

 

[Guest]

WHAT!?! You think that a God who can speak and the world come into being, who can say 'Let there be light' then light is, who can speak and divide the ocean from dry land, night from day, and the heavens from the earth, is capable of speaking to me?

Pat Roberston says that god told him that the second coming is going to be happening fall of 2007.

George W. Bush said that god told him to go to war with Iraq.

If god can turn on the lights and fill the oceans, surely he is powerful enough to talk to you?

 

[stranger]

Pat Roberston says that god told him that the second coming is going to be happening fall of 2007.

George W. Bush said that god told him to go to war with Iraq.

If god can turn on the lights and fill the oceans, surely he is powerful enough to talk to you?

Hi CuriousAgnostic,

Is the implied reasoning thus, if:
1. Pat Roberston says that god told him. . .
2. George W. Bush said that god told him. . .

And both were mistaken therefore God either does not nor cannot speak to anyone?

Try this:

God spoke to Moses. . .
God spoke to Isaiah. . .

therefore God can and will speak to whom He wills, but He is selective about whom He speaks to.

 

[Ruben]

I believe that the reaction will come natural. The thought as you stand before Him, and see that He is bigger than life, and He stands in all of His glory....(the song "We Shall Behold Him" just popped into my head) we can not help but give him all of the honor and praise that is due Him.

Gabby,
Wow, what a thrill to hear (read) those words! When Jesus said ‘these very stones will cry out’ maybe He was stating a real possibility, after all nature obeyed His commands.

Our Father loves all peoples of the world equally, notwithstanding ‘what’ we may be but that we are all His children. Can we possibly believe that Jesus loves a Muslim less than He loves those that believe in Him? It seems to me that the more lost someone may be the greater need for Christ in their lives. I know how I feel about my kids and what I hope for them.

It’s is vitally important to remember our advantages of living in this wonderful and free country and that in a way is a gift. Fortunately the forefathers made it into a right as well.

Our freedom to learn of and worship our God as we please is a freedom that most of us take for granted.

Not knowing the life stories of others we have to assume that each human being has been given equal chance to come to Jesus forsaking what ever they grew up believing.

What I find most difficult is to love my enemies as Christ did and does. At least I think God loves all people the same. I cannot see how God could celebrate the death of one of His creatures at the hands of others of His creatures. After all, the Creator made each and all of us.

How does one go about loving the person of a terrorist and still so much detest the deeds?

Got any ideas that might help?

 

[Guest]

Is the implied reasoning thus, if:
1. Pat Roberston says that god told him. . .
2. George W. Bush said that god told him. . .

And both were mistaken therefore God either does not nor cannot speak to anyone?

Both may very well believe god spoke to him, the operative word being BELIEVE. With pat robertson, we won't know he's wrong until 2007, unless of course he's right. But if he is and a tsunami starts smashing into the coast and chaos ensues, it certainly could be coincidence especially due to global warming and the increase of natural disasters. Of course, also with Pat Roberstson, I see him as a profiteer, in it to make as much money as possible, and I think he's just blowing smoke to draw in more people, more memberships, more money.

Try this:

God spoke to Moses. . .
God spoke to Isaiah. . .

therefore God can and will speak to whom He wills, but He is selective about whom He speaks to.

Try, the bible said that god spoke to moses, isaiah. I'm as convinced of the bibles accuracy as much as i'm convinced of any gods existance.

The thrust of that was that Gabby is as human as any of the other "people" that are mentioned in the bible, she seemed to think god is so high and mighty she'd never get spoken too. It would seem she has just as much chance as anyone else, and never isn't the appropriate word.

 

[stranger]

CuriousAgnostic wrote:

Try, the bible said that god spoke to moses, isaiah. I'm as convinced of the bibles accuracy as much as i'm convinced of any gods existance.

Hi there,

I am sure you are. (as convinced . . . of any gods existence). Picture a marketplace that you enter where there are many competing voices and stalls all demanding your attention. . .

You still have to make sense of it.

I like the Prophet Elijah's approach: Choose this day whom you will serve! If Baal be God follow him, if the Lord be God then follow Him. In other words if Christ be the way, the truth and the life follow Him. If He isn't then don't waste your time.

That 'if' gauntlet will be cast at every man's feet at some point in their lifetime.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

WHAT!?! :o You think that a God who can speak and the world come into being, who can say 'Let there be light' then light is, who can speak and divide the ocean from dry land, night from day, and the heavens from the earth, is capable of speaking to me?
:roll:

Try, the bible said that god spoke to moses, isaiah. I'm as convinced of the bibles accuracy as much as i'm convinced of any gods existance.

The thrust of that was that Gabby is as human as any of the other "people" that are mentioned in the bible, she seemed to think god is so high and mighty she'd never get spoken too. It would seem she has just as much chance as anyone else, and never isn't the appropriate word.

Hi Curious,
Please, forgive the sarcastic remarks.
I have a very close relationship with Him, with the Lord...and it does involve conversation. That is what prayer is all about.

Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

From your recent posts, it seems to me that no matter how many people told you that they have a relationship with God, you would have a difficult time believing it. Creation screams of His existance.

Psa 19:1 ... The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

My understanding of what an agnostic is, is someone who does not know if they believe that God exist or not. To not believe that God exist, one must by default, believe something else. Usually evolution. (Evolution: the belief that nothing turned itself into everything)
It takes a certain level of faith to talk to someone that you don't believe exist. If you are going to continue down your path of searching, then you need to take some steps along your journey.

I am waiting to see some progress. So far it seems as if you are still looking for reasons not to be sure. Gabby says this, and Moses says that. The bottom line~ the only thing that will matter` is going to be 'what does CuriousAgnostic believe?'.