What are your thoughts on modesty?

[wavy]

WHAAAAAT???

This made me laugh. :-D

You DID see the word RAPIST, right? So are you one who believes a woman is responsible for male reactions to what she is wearing?

:

No. I said the judge was wrong (on the rapist's account). But I also believe the woman was wrong too.

What about when I go swimming? Am I now doing things 'incorrectly' by exposing part of my body?

Imo, yes. I don't think swimming is an excuse...

The problem is in defining 'deliberately and consciously'. If I wear makeup, or put on a pretty pink sweater...I am doing it to appear attractive. But a man might see me and think 'Oooh La La!" Does that put me in sin or him?

I was talking about the guy you thought was saying that it was wrong on your part if some one is (lustfully) attracted to you. What he meant was that if you are trying to to incite lust, that is the sin.

He was not saying that if some one lusts after you, then you must have done something wrong.

Remember my story about the guy with the foot fetish? If I had worn flip-flops, which caused him to lust, would I have been in sin? How can I be responsible for someone else's out of control lust?

Yes, I do remember that scenario you gave. No, you would not be wrong.

What would be wrong is if you did it for the deliberate purpose of getting some one to lust after you.

 

[stovebolts]

I will say that the longer I am in relationship with Jesus, the more He exposes the motivation of my heart.
He's not so much interested in the 'what', as He is the 'WHY'. He searches the inmost parts of our hearts, He see's the motivation behind our actions that no one else can see.
He knows if we are seeking to bring glory to ourselves instead of Him.
God is a 'consuming fire', he will eventually consume everything in our lives that is birthed from our own pride, he will call what we once got away with to the forfront and deal with it as we mature in Him.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and (die), it abideth alone: but if it (die), it bringeth forth much fruit."

Our life can't be to our own glory, but to His. The hardest thing in the world is to 'die' and give up (my) glory.

Amen. Thank you (and lovely) for being such a blessing on this forum. Both of you show great wisdom and devotion to our Lord.

 

[Hisgirl]

Hi Wavy :D

You said you thought the judge was wrong and the woman was wrong too...for wearing tight jeans.

I'm kinda excited then! :D I just tugged on some jeans that dried a bit too much, so yeah, they're a little snug...LOL! So here I am, in a sinful state. However...in a couple of hours, they'll stretch out and hang quite comfortably....so there I'll be, no longer in a sinful state.

This is gonna be so cool! I wonder if I'll actually be able to spiritually discern the moment I go from sinful to not sinful! I'll keep you updated! :-D

 

[antitox]

Hi Wavy :D

You said you thought the judge was wrong and the woman was wrong too...for wearing tight jeans.

I'm kinda excited then! :D I just tugged on some jeans that dried a bit too much, so yeah, they're a little snug...LOL! So here I am, in a sinful state. However...in a couple of hours, they'll stretch out and hang quite comfortably....so there I'll be, no longer in a sinful state.

This is gonna be so cool! I wonder if I'll actually be able to spiritually discern the moment I go from sinful to not sinful! I'll keep you updated! :-D

Ha! Pretty good.

This scenario has an element in it kinda like where the woman was caught in adultery. They had the woman, but where was the guy?

The whole reason for the problem is man's sinful nature. Desires are out of control. Most women I come across do not dress badly. Some may not dress as they should, but you're going to have that no matter what, and guys are just going to have to get a grip because it's going to be out there.

 

[Asaph]

If Lady Godiva rides a horse through the streets naked for the purposes of civil protest, is she out of the will of God because of her nakedness or her lack of submission to the authorities?

"Both" is not an adequete answer.

 

[Hisgirl]

Hmmm....interesting proposal. Is a woman in sin merely by being naked and visible to all? Is the reason for her nakedness a variable that reduces her sin? Is her level of sin wholly graded on a curve...depending upon the level of lust she incites?

What if a woman is lying topless on a hospital gurney in plain view of several doctors...and one doctor is lusting in his heart. Did she incite the lust?

My mom was hospitalized back in the 50s and in her ignorance, sat in silence while intern after intern came into her room to do a 'breast exam'. These young men were incited to lust...merely by the presence of an ignorant beautiful woman.

What if lady Godiva was NOT nice to look at..and no one lusted after her...was there sin involved?

 

[Asaph]

Hmmm....interesting proposal. Is a woman in sin merely by being naked and visible to all? Is the reason for her nakedness a variable that reduces her sin? Is her level of sin wholly graded on a curve...depending upon the level of lust she incites?

What if a woman is lying topless on a hospital gurney in plain view of several doctors...and one doctor is lusting in his heart. Did she incite the lust?

My mom was hospitalized back in the 50s and in her ignorance, sat in silence while intern after intern came into her room to do a 'breast exam'. These young men were incited to lust...merely by the presence of an ignorant beautiful woman.

What if lady Godiva was NOT nice to look at..and no one lusted after her...was there sin involved?

Perfect. Amen.

 

[wavy]

Hi Wavy :D

You said you thought the judge was wrong and the woman was wrong too...for wearing tight jeans.

I'm kinda excited then! :D I just tugged on some jeans that dried a bit too much, so yeah, they're a little snug...LOL! So here I am, in a sinful state. However...in a couple of hours, they'll stretch out and hang quite comfortably....so there I'll be, no longer in a sinful state.

This is gonna be so cool! I wonder if I'll actually be able to spiritually discern the moment I go from sinful to not sinful! I'll keep you updated! :-D

This would only be a good joke if we define what "sin" means. To sin means to "miss the mark". It doesn't have to be some moral, spiritual "feeling" inside of you that makes you feel guilty.

Not to incite lust is the "mark" you want to get to and to obey Yahweh's Word is the "mark" you want to get to. Modest apparel. Why? Just for modest apparel's sake because you can jump from some abstract definition of "sin" in tight jeans to no sin after they loosen up?

Silly. You missed the point of everything I said...

 

[wavy]

If Lady Godiva rides a horse through the streets naked for the purposes of civil protest, is she out of the will of God because of her nakedness or her lack of submission to the authorities?

"Both" is not an adequete answer.

You've put a baseless precondition for some one to make the choice. "Both" could very much be an adequate answer.

 

[wavy]

Is a woman in sin merely by being naked and visible to all?

Generally, yes.

Is the reason for her nakedness a variable that reduces her sin?

Could be. Depends on the situation. What if she was kidnapped, stripped down, and raped?

Is her level of sin wholly graded on a curve...depending upon the level of lust she incites?

No. In addition to inciting lust, there is the shamefulness factor and the fact that Yahweh clearly clothed Adam and Eve himself, covering their nakedness. You are missing the point. You are not judging righteous judgment but picking grains.

What if a woman is lying topless on a hospital gurney in plain view of several doctors...and one doctor is lusting in his heart. Did she incite the lust?

Yes, she did incite lust. However, she has not sinned if there is a health/life saving reason or something similar for her to be topless in a room full of doctors.

Again, you miss the point.

What if lady Godiva was NOT nice to look at..and no one lusted after her...was there sin involved?

Again, you miss the point. How attractive you are is not the main issue.

 

[Asaph]

If Lady Godiva rides a horse through the streets naked for the purposes of civil protest, is she out of the will of God because of her nakedness or her lack of submission to the authorities?

"Both" is not an adequete answer.

You've put a baseless precondition for some one to make the choice. "Both" could very much be an adequate answer.

Then you do not understand. Both is not an adequete answer.

It is only an admission of dullness.

 

[wavy]

Then you do not understand. Both is not an adequete answer.

It is only an admission of dullness.

To me it was a silly question. And you've stated it is not adequate twice without explaining why. So before I just conclude that you don't have a legitimate reason, I'll ask you:

Why is it not adequate?

 

[Asaph]

Then you do not understand. Both is not an adequete answer.

It is only an admission of dullness.

To me it was a silly question. And you've stated it is not adequate twice without explaining why. So before I just conclude that you don't have a legitimate reason, I'll ask you:

Why is it not adequate?

Because David danced in honor of God as the Ark was brought back.

Do you understand?

 

[wavy]

That is totally irrelevant to anything. So if you could be more clear...

 

[Asaph]

That is totally irrelevant to anything. So if you could be more clear...

For one so steadfastedly a proponent of the old covenent, I would have thought it was painfully clear. I don't think anyone else has a problem with understanding what I am saying.

Was David right, or was his wife right?

 

[wavy]

I would have thought it was painfully clear. I don't think anyone else has a problem with understanding what I am saying.

Was David right, or was his wife right?

Cme on. The scipture is absolutely clear. What kind of legalistic, judieizing bunk can you now say against David? Was his wife right?

What in the world are you talking about and what in the world does this have to do with the lady godiva riding horseback naked?

 

[another dave]

Re: Inciting lust

I believe that inciting lust is a sin.


However some people would still lust if you wore a full robe inside of a card board box. :o


another dave >>> :-D

Hi Dave...You've made two strong statements here.

As a woman, I have spent my entire life fending off groping, lewd comments, obscene notes, and phone calls. Are you honestly going to say that because I was the object of lust...I was in sin?

These incidences were 'incited' by the fact I was female. I was not wearing short shorts, or spandex or a halter top. In fact, the last time a man approached me and began inappropriately flirting, I was wearing baggy army pants and a baggy t-shirt minding my own business....

There was a judge in Italy who made a ruling which said any man who raped a woman who had been wearing tight blue jeans, could not be charged with rape...because she had 'incited' the rape. Who was in sin here? The woman, the rapist or the Pharisaical judge?

What I was saying is >>> no matter what a man or a woman wears there are those people who will lust after them if they are naked or inside of a mountain.

What I mean by "inciting lust is a sin" , is when a person deliberately dresses up or down or wears a sexually inticing fragrance in order to stir the lust up in another.

If a person goes naked on the beach, I call that inciting lust.

If a person wears a fragrance that was designed to bring out animal lust in a human, I call that inciting lust.

If a woman walks past me and deliberately brushed her breast across my back, I call that inciting lust.

Like I said some people will lust after others no matter what you wear or do not wear.

Some are strong and some are weak regarding the assault of the eyes and the imagination.

Inciting lust is going out of your way to dress or smell provocatively.


Lust is too easy if you look too long or imagine too much.

Such is common to humans and fallen angels.

That is why it is so difficult for a single person.

It is much easier to fight lust (in my opinion) if each man or woman has their own relationship in a GODLY marriage.



:D

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Re: Inciting lust

I believe that inciting lust is a sin.

Then I sin every day as I lust after my husband and he lusts after me and I have no shame about it either

 

[wavy]

Re: Inciting lust

Then I sin every day as I lust after my husband and he lusts after me and I have no shame about it either

I don't know if "lust" would be the proper term, per say, but this is not sin. It is sanctified by Torah (which is another reason why Torah cannot be done away with because this means we can't get married!)

Anyway:

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

We see the implications of what becoming one flesh is...

 

[antitox]

Re: Inciting lust

[quote="another dave":d7535]I believe that inciting lust is a sin.

Then I sin every day as I lust after my husband and he lusts after me and I have no shame about it either [/quote:d7535]

Actually, lust is only lust when it is outside of marriage. When this desire is kept within the marriage bed, it is undefiled.

Proverbs draws this picture:

(Prov 5:15-18) "Drink water from your own cistern, flowing water from your own well. Should your springs be scattered abroad, streams of water in the streets? Let them be for yourself alone, and not for strangers with you. Let your fountain be blessed, and rejoice in the wife of your youth, a lovely hind, a graceful doe."