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Bible Study What came first?

G

Georges

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What traditionally is the oldest (first written) book in the NT?



What was written first, the letters of Paul or the Gospels?



Was the book of James written opposed to Paul's letters?




Just trying to figure out...why Paul never teaches about the acts of Jesus in his letters...To have been a contemporary, you would think he would have known all about his personal life. Just throwing that out there....
 
I am reasonably sure that at least most of Paul epistles were written before the Gospels, but don't quote me on that, because I don't know for sure.
 
This is actually an interesting question. I would say that in 1 Cor 11 he does speak of an act of Jesus, namely the last supper. But one thing I think is clear. Paul did not spend alot of time with the other apostles. It says in Galations that he spent some time with Peter. Then of course he was at the council in Acts 15. But mostly he was not with them. That might explain some of it. I will give this some more thought.

In Catholicism Paul's writings and James are easily and perfectly reconciled.

God bless
 
Georges said:
Just trying to figure out...why Paul never teaches about the acts of Jesus in his letters...To have been a contemporary, you would think he would have known all about his personal life. Just throwing that out there....
Click to expand...

Paul received the gospel by revelation from Christ himself. Paul taught and preached the things revealed to him, not the things passed on to him from other men.
 
Georges said:
What traditionally is the oldest (first written) book in the NT?

What was written first, the letters of Paul or the Gospels?
Click to expand...

The common understanding is Paul's epistles are earlier.

Was the book of James written opposed to Paul's letters?
Click to expand...

I have heard that "James" may be the oldest book of the NT? In that case it wouldn't be responding to Paul's letters but Acts tells of disagreement between Paul and the leaders of the Jerusalem Church so even the writers of the NT were at odds over portions of their belief - which, to me, casts a very "human" shadow over the whole "one in the Spirit" idea?

Just trying to figure out...why Paul never teaches about the acts of Jesus in his letters...To have been a contemporary, you would think he would have known all about his personal life. Just throwing that out there....
Click to expand...

Perhaps the details of the gospels weren't invented yet? For instance, Mark is generally accepted as the earliest of the 4 gospels, yet it is the shortest and contains the least incidents/details. It doesn't even mention the resurrection appearences and the Ascension. (the last part of chap.16 was added later) Doesn't this sound like the way legends develop? Very suspicious.
 
Georges said:
What traditionally is the oldest (first written) book in the NT?



What was written first, the letters of Paul or the Gospels?



Was the book of James written opposed to Paul's letters?




Just trying to figure out...why Paul never teaches about the acts of Jesus in his letters...To have been a contemporary, you would think he would have known all about his personal life. Just throwing that out there....
Click to expand...

George,

I'm told (I don't know for sure) that "New Testament Survey" By: D.A. Carson may give us the dating on the New Testament books. Keep in mind that some of the originals were written on parchment and didn't last so we will be dating the copies and not all of the originals.
 
mutzrein said:
Georges said:
Just trying to figure out...why Paul never teaches about the acts of Jesus in his letters...To have been a contemporary, you would think he would have known all about his personal life. Just throwing that out there....
Click to expand...

Paul received the gospel by revelation from Christ himself.

My question....Paul's teachings (letters) appear to be at odds with the rest of the Apostles teachings (ie The book of James is in definite contrast to the Pauline letters). Paul claims to have had "secret (mystery)" information revealed to him by Chist himself. No witnesses corroborating Paul's story, or received teaching. I'm trying to find in the NT where Jesus taught or revealed the Gospel to any single one of the 12 (closest disciples). It always seems that there are at least 2 witnesses to what Jesus had said. Did Paul really recieve anything from Christ, or is what he taught something of his own invention or interpretation?

Paul taught and preached the things revealed to him, not the things passed on to him from other men.

So he claims....trouble is...he is up against men who are infinitely more familiar with Jesus as a person and teacher.
Click to expand...

Of course I had an adgenda by presenting the OP with the questions.

Were the Gospels shaped/influenced by Paul's letters? I don't know...It is a fact that the NT has been edited to fit a trinitarian theology but how much influence did Paul's letters have on that? Did Paul believe in a trinity? I don't think so...His writings never indicate that.

An interesting observation,

James' letter seems to combat Paul's (of the letters) apathetical stance to the Torah...and, John's "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" was written to combat Pauline Christianity in Asia Minor...

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is the only book in the NT where the author is commanded by God through Jesus to write. It is also the only book where a curse is attached for any editing.
 
Georges said:
What traditionally is the oldest (first written) book in the NT?



What was written first, the letters of Paul or the Gospels?



Was the book of James written opposed to Paul's letters?




Just trying to figure out...why Paul never teaches about the acts of Jesus in his letters...To have been a contemporary, you would think he would have known all about his personal life. Just throwing that out there....
Click to expand...

***
John here:
The Bible as I see it has many 'Holy men' pen its contents in their wording. Thus, things need to be taken in all the pieces, to get the subject picture. 2 Timothy 3:16-Matthew 4:4.
But with that even being the case, we do believe that the 'picture' is the Word of God, [all of it] right? (me at least)

And for your question? I see it as what the Holy Spirit Inspired Paul to write & that is what we have. (did that come across? :fadein: )
2 Peter 1:20-21 is whose Inspiration? Peters, or Pauls?? I do not see it that way.

After saying this, let me just qualify that the Eternal Covenant is the only work that they (the Godhead) themselves wrote. And that was done twice with the last time being done by the Holy Spirit in the Born Again heart.

One other thought from Peter, he tells us that Paul just had a hard time getting his words penned for some to understand!
Perhaps [we] just need to dig a litter deeper 'ourselves'? See Romans 1:16, Romans 8:1 for just a starter. I see Paul being one of the most devoted of all 'penman' used of the Holy Ghost to uplift our Master. Surely Christ had Paul 'Inspired' to do as He had said in Acts 9:15? Note the Words of..
"to bear My Name before the Gentils, and kings, and the children of Israel."

No, I believe that Paul did just as the Holy Spirit told him to do. No more & no less.
Just another side thought. Do you think that the Book of Hebrews was Pauls inspired writing? Some do not, I do. Anyway the book is full of the Sanctuary teaching as I see it. (Psalm 77:13, see the K.J.) This is the place to study the Everlasting Gospel from, which is the Eternal Christ [centered] Gospel & Doctrine of Christ! Even John in the Revelation has Sanctuary typology truth used much throughout!
 
John the Baptist said:
Georges said:
What traditionally is the oldest (first written) book in the NT?



What was written first, the letters of Paul or the Gospels?



Was the book of James written opposed to Paul's letters?




Just trying to figure out...why Paul never teaches about the acts of Jesus in his letters...To have been a contemporary, you would think he would have known all about his personal life. Just throwing that out there....
Click to expand...

***
John here:
The Bible as I see it has many 'Holy men' pen its contents in their wording. Thus, things need to be taken in all the pieces, to get the subject picture. 2 Timothy 3:16-Matthew 4:4.
But with that even being the case, we do believe that the 'picture' is the Word of God, [all of it] right? (me at least)

And for your question? I see it as what the Holy Spirit Inspired Paul to write & that is what we have. (did that come across? :fadein: )
2 Peter 1:20-21 is whose Inspiration? Peters, or Pauls?? I do not see it that way.

After saying this, let me just qualify that the Eternal Covenant is the only work that they (the Godhead) themselves wrote. And that was done twice with the last time being done by the Holy Spirit in the Born Again heart.

One other thought from Peter, he tells us that Paul just had a hard time getting his words penned for some to understand!
Perhaps [we] just need to dig a litter deeper 'ourselves'? See Romans 1:16, Romans 8:1 for just a starter. I see Paul being one of the most devoted of all 'penman' used of the Holy Ghost to uplift our Master. Surely Christ had Paul 'Inspired' to do as He had said in Acts 9:15? Note the Words of..
"to bear My Name before the Gentils, and kings, and the children of Israel."

No, I believe that Paul did just as the Holy Spirit told him to do. No more & no less.
Just another side thought. Do you think that the Book of Hebrews was Pauls inspired writing? Some do not, I do. Anyway the book is full of the Sanctuary teaching as I see it. (Psalm 77:13, see the K.J.) This is the place to study the Everlasting Gospel from, which is the Eternal Christ [centered] Gospel & Doctrine of Christ! Even John in the Revelation has Sanctuary typology truth used much throughout!
Click to expand...

Luv ya John, but I can't dialog with you....as I've said in other posts, the difference in our perspectives are so far apart that I don't see any positive meeting place in between and I don't have the ambition to crack that nut... :)

But...thanks for your imput.
 
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