Have you heard the Gospel?

[Bruce.Leiter]

Eve's and Adam's sin was not handed down.

So, what do you think about this verse by Paul, Hopeful 2? Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

In post 210, you said "all sinned".

Nothing is written about John's own baptism, but seeing as he was born with the Holy Ghost already in him, (Luke 1:15), he had no sin to repent of or to wash away.

How can you say that John the Baptist "had no sin to repent of or to wash away"? Just because the Holy Spirit controls us doesn't mean we don't get impatient and frustrated. John resisted the idea that he should baptize Jesus and doubted that Jesus was the Messiah later when he was in prison and sent people to ask Jesus about his ministry.

Just because the Bible doesn't say anything about his sins doesn't mean that he didn't have any. That would be arguing from Scripture's silence, about which we know nothing.

 

[Hopeful 2]

So, what do you think about this verse by Paul, Hopeful 2? Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

That is what we were just discussing.
So I asked, What sin had John the Baptist committed ?
What sin has a baby that passes away committed ?
Or a mentally challenged person ?
I find Paul's verse 12 comment a generality, instead of an iron-clad law.
Rom 5:14 implies that not all do sin..."Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,"

 

[Hopeful 2]

How can you say that John the Baptist "had no sin to repent of or to wash away"? Just because the Holy Spirit controls us doesn't mean we don't get impatient and frustrated. John resisted the idea that he should baptize Jesus and doubted that Jesus was the Messiah later when he was in prison and sent people to ask Jesus about his ministry.

The Holy Spirit will not remain in a polluted temple.
Had John sinned, he would not have God's Spirit in him.

Just because the Bible doesn't say anything about his sins doesn't mean that he didn't have any. That would be arguing from Scripture's silence, about which we know nothing.

If an accusation of sin is made without proof, isn't that an argument from silence too ?

Why are people so against the idea that anyone loves God enough to actually obey Him all the time ?

 

[JLB]

Eve's and Adam's sin was not handed down.

Not Eve.

Adam. Iniquity is perpetuated by the male; the seed.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12

• just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin,

 

[JLB]

In post 210, you said "all sinned".

I never said that John the Baptist sinned.

The Holy Spirit through Paul stated this —

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12

• just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, so death spread to all people [no one being able to stop it or escape its power], because they all sinned.
Romans 5:12 AMP

If you want to argue with scripture then have at it.

 

[JLB]

Nothing is written about John's own baptism, but seeing as he was born with the Holy Ghost already in him, (Luke 1:15), he had no sin to repent of or to wash away.

Please show the scripture that says a person with the Holy Spirit in them is sinless for life.


Every human being has sinned.

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:23

 

[JLB]

If all our sins can be washed away, cleansed, why can't we say we have no sin ?
Actually, verses 6, 8, and 10 apply to those still walking in darkness.
Sinners can't say they have no sin, but those who have confessed, repented of sin, been washed by the blood of Christ, can say they have no sin.
They have crucified the old man with the affections and lusts ! (Gal 5:24)
They have been reborn of God's seed !
We can now walk in the light, instead of in darkness.

I see no evidence of a failed repentance from sin in those verses.
Care to elaborate ?

I agree.
There is nothing forcing us to keep walking in the darkness/sin.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

The blood of Jesus cleanses those who walk in the light from sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

Those who claim to be sinless are liars.

Lying is sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I never said that John the Baptist sinned.

The Holy Spirit through Paul stated this —

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12

• just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, so death spread to all people [no one being able to stop it or escape its power], because they all sinned.
Romans 5:12 AMP

If you want to argue with scripture then have at it.

Then you are saying it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Please show the scripture that says a person with the Holy Spirit in them is sinless for life.

I don't believe there is such a scripture.
Man must work everyday to keep that Spirit that is only given to the repentant and washed.
We have no NT life stories.
Can you provide a scripture where anyone with the Spirit of God in them committed a sin ?

Every human being has sinned.

Jesus didn't sin, and He is our example of not following after the '"flesh".

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:23

Jesus didn't sin, and those "in Him", don't sin either.

 

[Hopeful 2]

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7
The blood of Jesus cleanses those who walk in the light from sin.

Of course.
They must be cleansed, before they can even walk in God...in Whom is no sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

That certainly applies to the sinners.
They can neither say they have no sin or that they have fellowship with God. (1 John 1:6)
They also cannot say they know God. (1 John 2:3)

Those who claim to be sinless are liars.

Sinners commit sin.
Sin is darkness. (Pro 4:19)
Those reborn of God's seed don't commit sin, as they walk in the light...which is God, in Whom is no sin.
Non-sinners walk in the light.

Lying is sin.

Yes it is.
Liars are not walking in God.
"God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5)

 

[JLB]

Then you are saying it.

The scripture says all sinned.

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:23

I believe the scripture.

The scripture says … If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I believe the scripture.

The scripture says… If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I believe the scripture.

 

[JLB]

Can you provide a scripture where anyone with the Spirit of God in them committed a sin ?

“And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,
‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: “I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. Revelation 2:18-22

• because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

 

[JLB]

Yes it is.
Liars are not walking in God.
"God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5)

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

Those who claim to be sinless, having no sin are liars, who must repent.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The scripture says all sinned.
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:23

Perhaps appropriate until Jesus came along.
With the exception of Enoch, and Elijah, Samuel, and John the Baptist.
But what of those others, who Paul says didn't sin ?
It is written..."Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,..." (Rom 5:14)

I believe the scripture.

Do you believe Rom 6:6-7 ?
It is written...“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Rom. 6:6-7)
And how about Col. 1:28 ?
It is written..."Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)

The scripture says … If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

That scripture only applies to those walking in darkness, which Pro 4:19 says is "the way of the wicked".
It does not apply to those who walk in the light, which 1 John 1:5 says is God.
There is no sin in God.

I believe the scripture.
The scripture says… If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I believe the scripture.

You believe we can not be without sin, then quote a scripture claiming all our sin can be cleansed away.
You believe opposing POVs.

 

[Hopeful 2]

“And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,
‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: “I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. Revelation 2:18-22

• because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

Where is it shown that those who did accept the false teacher had the Spirit of God ?
BTW, when "a church" is addressed with correction, it doesn't necessarily accuse all the members thereof.

If those people were actually "His servants" they would not ever serve a different master.

Oh, and as it is written..."I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.", it doesn't command all the members to repent.
Just the traitors.

 

[Hopeful 2]

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

Those who claim to be sinless, having no sin are liars, who must repent.

Agreed, if they are sinners.
If they will confess their sins, and repent of them, and get washed of them by baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins, they will be able to say "I have no sin" !

Won't you do that ?

 

[JLB]

Perhaps appropriate until Jesus came along.
With the exception of Enoch, and Elijah, Samuel, and John the Baptist.
But what of those others, who Paul says didn't sin ?
It is written..."Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,..." (Rom 5:14)

Yes, those who didn’t eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

All sinned. No exceptions.

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:23

Plain and simple.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12


No amount of your twisting God’s word will ever validate your “sinless perfection” doctrine of man.


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

The scriptures plainly teach us people like you who promote an unbiblical doctrine of claiming you have not sinned, are self deceived, and the truth is not in you.


If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:10


The blood of Jesus is for us, His saints, born again Christians to confess our sins and be forgiven.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

The blood of Jesus is also for the the sins of the world; for the unsaved to become saved.


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2



I urge you to please repent of believing and promoting such a false and unbiblical doctrine that has deceived you and those whom have been ensnared by your deceiving words of deception.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes, those who didn’t eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

All sinned. No exceptions.

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:23

Plain and simple.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12


No amount of your twisting God’s word will ever validate your “sinless perfection” doctrine of man.


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

The scriptures plainly teach us people like you who promote an unbiblical doctrine of claiming you have not sinned, are self deceived, and the truth is not in you.


If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:10


The blood of Jesus is for us, His saints, born again Christians to confess our sins and be forgiven.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

The blood of Jesus is also for the the sins of the world; for the unsaved to become saved.


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2



I urge you to please repent of believing and promoting such a false and unbiblical doctrine that has deceived you and those whom have been ensnared by your deceiving words of deception.

Jesus didn't sin, and He is the example for the reborn.
Paul writes..."Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." (Rom 5:14)
I suppose Enoch, Elijah, and John the Baptist, were in that group of non-sinners.

 

[JLB]

Jesus didn't sin, and He is the example for the reborn.

Jesus was born sinless.

Jesus remained sinless.

Everyone else has a body that contains sin. When we are born again, we do not get a new body.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

Born again Christians, have a body that still contains sin, and must learn to walk according to the Spirit, so that we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17

• and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Born again Christ desire the things of God within their spirit, but their flesh desires carnal things.

• Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Those who claim to be sinless are deceived.


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:8-9