Have you heard the Gospel?

[Hopeful 2]

Jesus was born sinless.

So was John the Baptist, and you.

Jesus remained sinless.

So do the faithful in Christ Jesus...after rebirth from God's seed.

Everyone else has a body that contains sin. When we are born again, we do not get a new body
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12
Born again Christians, have a body that still contains sin, and must learn to walk according to the Spirit, so that we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17

• and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Born again Christ desire the things of God within their spirit, but their flesh desires carnal things.

• Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Those who claim to be sinless are deceived.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:8-9

I consider the notion of sin being in one's skin and bones, as a false doctrine.
Those reborn of God's seed, are as pure as the driven snow.
God's seed cannot bring forth corrupt fruit.

 

[deepfaithpraise]

I am free from the penalty of sin thru the redemptive death of Christ who suffered death in my place, but as I live in this body I am not free from the presence of sin.
I detest it more, am more aware & and avoid it's traps more, and feel further from it's presence each new day but I would be a fool to believe the carnal nature will ever be completely gone from this decaying body.
I take it then you do not attend a church where everyone commits no sin as you do or if you do you would rather not say, that's fine.
How about do you read from contemporary Christian authors who say they never commit sin?
Read any Christian Authors, Expositors, or watch televised Christian speakers, who espouse they commit no sin?
I would love to listen and read from one or two of them to gain insight from their life experience if you could mention one or two such authors or speakers. ministers who are public?
I certainly can name a few that believe and speak to the retained sin nature I have now attested to you, that a Christian must continue to do battle with until they are with Christ.
Why don't we share from the experiences of any public Christian authors, speakers that hold to each our differing views in the interest of Christian understanding and gaining further insight into each others view?

I'll go first, here is a fairly well known public Christian Speaker and author that holds to the view I do speaking as to our retaining a sin nature after the new birth.
No hurry, You can write me back quoting a Christian public speaker/author you are familiar with who holds to your view of committing no sin at your convenience

Billy Graham - No one is without sin - no matter what they say​

Billy Graham

Q: I have a friend who says he thinks he's already achieved perfection, because he doesn't know of any sins he commits now. Do you think that's possible? How can we become perfect? — N.R.

A: You and I will never be perfect in this life; as long as we live on this earth we'll still be sinners, and our ability to commit sin will always be with us. The Bible warns, "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8).

I find this discussion fascinating! The question of Christian perfection has been debated throughout church history.

In the early church, there was tension between recognizing our ongoing struggle with sin while affirming our new identity in Christ. Augustine's debates with Pelagius centered on this very issue - can humans achieve sinless perfection through effort?

During the Reformation, Luther and Calvin strongly emphasized our continuing sinful nature even after salvation - hence Luther's famous phrase "simul justus et peccator" (simultaneously righteous and sinner).

On the other hand, John Wesley taught what he called "Christian perfection" - though he carefully defined this not as absolute sinlessness but as perfect love toward God and neighbor. Many misunderstood his position.

Billy Graham's perspective you've shared reflects the mainstream Protestant view that emerged through these historical debates.

What's interesting is that both sides often cite the same biblical passages - like 1 John 1:8 versus 1 John 3:9 - but interpret them differently based on how they understand sanctification as a process or an event.

Throughout history, Christian communities that have claimed sinless perfection have often later modified these claims or faced internal contradictions. The reality of our experience tends to align with Graham's humble assessment, even while we affirm the transforming power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I find this discussion fascinating! The question of Christian perfection has been debated throughout church history.

In the early church, there was tension between recognizing our ongoing struggle with sin while affirming our new identity in Christ. Augustine's debates with Pelagius centered on this very issue - can humans achieve sinless perfection through effort?

During the Reformation, Luther and Calvin strongly emphasized our continuing sinful nature even after salvation - hence Luther's famous phrase "simul justus et peccator" (simultaneously righteous and sinner).

On the other hand, John Wesley taught what he called "Christian perfection" - though he carefully defined this not as absolute sinlessness but as perfect love toward God and neighbor. Many misunderstood his position.

Billy Graham's perspective you've shared reflects the mainstream Protestant view that emerged through these historical debates.

What's interesting is that both sides often cite the same biblical passages - like 1 John 1:8 versus 1 John 3:9 - but interpret them differently based on how they understand sanctification as a process or an event.

Throughout history, Christian communities that have claimed sinless perfection have often later modified these claims or faced internal contradictions. The reality of our experience tends to align with Graham's humble assessment, even while we affirm the transforming power of the Holy Spirit.

Identifying the sinless is easy because they always tell you they are .

 

[Hopeful 2]

I find this discussion fascinating! The question of Christian perfection has been debated throughout church history.

In the early church, there was tension between recognizing our ongoing struggle with sin while affirming our new identity in Christ. Augustine's debates with Pelagius centered on this very issue - can humans achieve sinless perfection through effort?

Augustine wasn't even born until 354 AD.
I don't consider him a member of the 'early church'.
And, perfect obedience to God is totally a result of what He achieved.

The reality of our experience tends to align with Graham's humble assessment, even while we affirm the transforming power of the Holy Spirit.

That sounds like an "contradiction".
Question: If the Holy Spirit has the power to transform, why aren't there any who are transformed ?
Answer: There are folks that have been transformed, to the glory of God and to the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[JLB]

So was John the Baptist, and you.

Can you provide scripture that says all men are born sinless?

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:23

So do the faithful in Christ Jesus...after rebirth from God's seed.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

Your error is you believe your physical body was born again, when you were water baptized.

You have the same physical body your mother gave birth to.

Your spirit was born again, not your physical body.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6


Your spirit was reborn of the Spirit, not your physical body.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Can you provide scripture that says all men are born sinless?

Why would I need to, as a baby can't commit sin.

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:23

That is true, in one narrow parameter.
That parameter must except at minimum, the newly born-to age of reason, Enoch, Elijah, John the Baptist, Samuel, and Jesus.
But even without sinning, we still come short of God's glory.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

The folks that confess their sins, (1 John 1:9), and get washed of them by the blood of Christ, (1 John 1:7, Acts 2:38, 22:16), can all say they have no sin.

Your error is you believe your physical body was born again, when you were water baptized.

Your error is thinking the skin and bones of anyone has sin in it.
I will stand on 2 Cor 5:17 for my perspective on the human body's regeneration at immersion into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.
2 Cor 5:17..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
What part of that leaves any portion of the old vessel in existence ?

You have the same physical body your mother gave birth to.

That body was excised by the circumcision done without hands.
"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" (Col 2:11)

Your spirit was born again, not your physical body.

Which 'runs the show' ?
Your mind, or your body ?
As your vessel never could commit a sin of itself to begin with, blaming it for sin now, is ludicrous.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

I would think, that being reborn of God's seed, would count as a Spiritual rebirth.

Your spirit was reborn of the Spirit, not your physical body.

It is written..."So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." (Rom 8:8-10)
Are you admitting to not having the Spirit of God dwell in you ?

 

[JLB]

But even without sinning, we still come short of God's glory.

Sinning is how we come short of the glory of God.

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:23

 

[Hopeful 2]

Sinning is how we come short of the glory of God.

So is not being able to create life, or tell the seas where to stop.
Or make birds fly, or move the continents.

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:23

I wonder what Enoch and Elias thinks of that scripture.
Any ways, we can all be free from sin since Jesus' interdiction on our behalf.

 

[JLB]

I wonder what Enoch and Elias thinks of that scripture.

They completely agree. It’s God’s word.

 

[Hopeful 2]

They completely agree. It’s God’s word.

I have a brother and a sister that never committed a sin either.

 

[JLB]

I have a brother and a sister that never committed a sin either.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

 

[Hopeful 2]

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

Some of 1 John 1 addresses those that have confessed and been washed.
They can honestly say they have no sin.
They now walk in the light...which is God, in whom is no sin.

Some of 1 John 1 addresses those that have not confessed and been washed.
They cannot honestly say they have no sin.
They walk in darkness...which Pro 4:19 says is..."the way of the wicked".

Besides not being able to say they have no sin, those walking in sin-darkness cannot say they have fellowship with God, (1 John 1:6), or that they know Him. (1 John 2:3)

Walking in the light, (God), where there is no sin, is a far better place to be.

 

[JLB]

Some of 1 John 1 addresses those that have confessed and been washed.
They can honestly say they have no sin.
They now walk in the light...which is God, in whom is no sin.

Some of 1 John 1 addresses those that have not confessed and been washed.
They cannot honestly say they have no sin.
They walk in darkness...which Pro 4:19 says is..."the way of the wicked".

Besides not being able to say they have no sin, those walking in sin-darkness cannot say they have fellowship with God, (1 John 1:6), or that they know Him. (1 John 2:3)

Walking in the light, (God), where there is no sin, is a far better place to be.

Walking in the light is the place to be.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Walking in the light is the place to be.

Sinners walk in darkness.
They are not "in God", nor do they know Him.
If only they would repent of sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their past sins, so they too could walk in God.
Then they would be able to say they had no sins !

 

[mailmandan]

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

*Walking in darkness is 'descriptive' of children of the devil. Walking in the light is 'descriptive' of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

1 Thessalonians 5:4 - But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother.

*Notice that walks in darkness, hates his brother is 'descriptive' of children of the devil.

 

[live2blieve]

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

*Walking in darkness is 'descriptive' of children of the devil. Walking in the light is 'descriptive' of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

1 Thessalonians 5:4 - But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother.

*Notice that walks in darkness, hates his brother is 'descriptive' of children of the devil.

Yes, and "For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God" (1 John 3:8,9). This is the Gospel, good news.