What did God say?

[JudaicChristian]

God allows all men to turn from him, but like Pharoah that Moses dealt with men can harden their hearts

so hard, that Lord will send a strong delusion, see Romans 1.

• Romans 1:32. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

• Genesis 2:17
  but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
  
  
  Genesis 3:3
  but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "
  
  
  Genesis 3:4
  "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.
  
  
  Now who is telling the truth, God or the Serpent? According to scripture the Serpent is telling the truth. And that is why you see the word "Hell" in scripture. It's a place for God to torture LIVING BEINGS for all eternity. That is why are bibles also say God does "EVIL." Did you know that King James was the Grand Master of the Masons, and that the King James Bible is also known as the Masonic Bible? And that is the tip of the iceberg.
  
  
  The Hebrew word Sheol literally means grave, not Hell. Is there LIFE in Hell? God says that man will surely die, and the Serpent says that man will not surely die. The Pagans teach that there is life in Hell. God says there is death. And Yahshua also said that God can destroy both body and spirit. Is the word "HELL" biblical, or not?
  If the word Hell is biblical, then the Serpent told the truth.

 

[Benoni]

Yes he does but is not drawing all people no or they would have no choice but to come.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Greek drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

NO MAN….

Draw… Drag same thing it means force. Does anyone have a freewill when he is being dragged? I do not care what religious logic you believe in. Here is a chance for you to look at God’s Word with no preconceived idealism (the narrow way).

Carnal man is a slave to sin; and not only does he not have a freewill or choice to receive the things of God it is his nature to totally reject all things of God and that is the way God created him. The carnal man is dead; when Adam died we all died; but Adam did not die physically the moment of the curse; he live physically until Genesis 5:5 and was 930 years old.
But spiritual death happened to him and Eve; they lost that communion with the Father in heaven. I believe God’s glory slowly departed early men in Genesis that is why they live for so long.


Can a dead man see, hear, smell, taste; etc. No this is double true to a spiritual dead man who cannot see, hear the things of God. A lot of our religious brothers are pretty dead too. Just because you are a believer does not stop you from being carnal.

If God does not quicken you; you are spiritually dead and are totally incapable of receiving anything from God.


Jesus draws all men unto himself....that's the power of the cross.

 

[Benoni]

God had a purpose for Pharoah and that purpose was not not acknowphish by harding Pharoah's heart six times, so God hardened it a seventh time. It was God's purpose that the world turn from Him. Without a turning all you would have is robots or a puppet on a string doing God' s will. God wants sons not servants. He wants overcomers not excapist.

(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have

Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. You (God) turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.

God allows all men to turn from him, but like Pharoah that Moses dealt with men can harden their hearts

so hard, that Lord will send a strong delusion, see Romans 1.

• Romans 1:32. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

• Genesis 2:17
  but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
  
  
  Genesis 3:3
  but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "
  
  
  Genesis 3:4
  "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.
  
  
  Now who is telling the truth, God or the Serpent? According to scripture the Serpent is telling the truth. And that is why you see the word "Hell" in scripture. It's a place for God to torture LIVING BEINGS for all eternity. That is why are bibles also say God does "EVIL." Did you know that King James was the Grand Master of the Masons, and that the King James Bible is also known as the Masonic Bible? And that is the tip of the iceberg.
  
  
  The Hebrew word Sheol literally means grave, not Hell. Is there LIFE in Hell? God says that man will surely die, and the Serpent says that man will not surely die. The Pagans teach that there is life in Hell. God says there is death. And Yahshua also said that God can destroy both body and spirit. Is the word "HELL" biblical, or not?
  If the word Hell is biblical, then the Serpent told the truth.

 

[JudaicChristian]

I do not think we are on the same page. This thread is about the word "Hell" being in scripture. If it is true that there will be people ALIVE in Hell, Then God lied, and the Serpent told the truth. Was the word "Hell" added to scripture replacing the words grave, pit, and Gehenna?

 

[Benoni]

God never lies but religious bias men lie. First of all I do not believe in hell, just another Teutonic pagan word. I do believe in the three Greek words Hades, Gehenna and Tartatus, and the Hebrew Sheol; but they simple mean the place of the dead.


New Testament reference by Ballantine (1934) which contain footnotes, marginal readings and appendages which point out that several key Greek and Hebrew words regarding Hell have been MIStranslated by such Bible versions as the King James Bible.

I have a list of Bibles which show the translations that contain the word Hell as well as the ones that don’t in the text is NOT exhaustive--we are discovering more translations all the time in which the translators did not feel justified in using the Teutonic pagan word Hell to translate the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek words Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus.

You are right the word hell is not in Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic the language the Bible was written in; but it comes from an Angle Saxon word “hel†meaning to bury. It is more then a mis-translation it a premeditated deliberate assault on scripture to in introduce the Teutonic pagan word

So why do you believe God would do such a evil thing to billions of his creation?

Tar-ta-rus (tart rs) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1 an infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils not people. (mentioned only once in the Bible)

Ha-des (hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a) the home of the dead, beneath the earth b) the god of the underworld 2 Bible the state or resting place of the dead: name used in some modern translations of the New Testament

She-ol (eol) [[Heb shaal , to dig]] a place in the depths of the earth conceived of as the dwelling of the dead Note: translated in KJV about haft of scriptures as hell, the other haft as grave
Gehenna: Mentioned twelve or thirteen times in the gospel. This is the word the fundamental preachers love to use to burn up the sinner. They are the first to yell foul if something does not fit in context; BUT: Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; a place of constant burning of refuge. Those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified bf God’s holy judgment. This word is used not for sinner, murders or liars; it is used with the word “BROTHERâ€.

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire.


Gehenna is not physical flames, even though Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem. Gehenna Judgment is actually spiritual in nature, it is the reaping of what Isreal had sown by killing the prophets and their children in the fire to Molech and Baal at Topheth and in the Valley of Ben Hiddom (later called Gehenna). God warned that He is the only God, there is no other like Him.

 

[ProphetMark]

Just to confuse things even more, yes I think Satan did tell the truth. What God meant was that they would die spiritually. What Satan meant was that they wouldn't die physically.

 

[JudaicChristian]

God never lies but religious bias men lie.

So why do you believe God would do such a evil thing to billions of his creation?

I do not think that it is evil for God to take away the lives of the condemned. As a matter of fact I think that it is responsible and merciful. Everyone should remember that the Serpent, Satan, and Devil is a liar. The Serpent says you will not surely die, after God said you will surely die. Yahshua reaffirms this by saying God can destroy both body and spirit. Personally I do not believe in universal salvation, because I see no scriptural support for it.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Just to confuse things even more, yes I think Satan did tell the truth. What God meant was that they would die spiritually. What Satan meant was that they wouldn't die physically.

There are variations to the meaning spirit and spiritual. A living soul consist of both body and spirit. Death of the spirit is the second death. God does not lie, there is no reason for Him to do so. Immortality is an act of God, and nothing we can do ourselves.

 

[Benoni]

The spirit and the soul are not the same. The spirit of man is that part of each one of us that is made in the image of God. The soul is the mind and the intellect, the soul must be changed for it is carnal. The spirit returns to God.

The book of Revelation is a book of symbols. In the introduction to this marvelous book the beloved John explains, "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to show unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John" (Rev. 1:1). The word "signified" is from the Greek SEMAINO meaning to indicate or communicate by means of signs and symbols. The meanings of all the symbols of the Revelation are given, either in the book itself, or elsewhere in the Scriptures.

Children in school learn what we call definitions. A definition is an explanatory statement which tells us exactly what a certain thing is, as "an island is a tract of land completely surrounded by water." God also gives us definitions in His Word.

He tells us exactly what certain things are. In Rev. 20:14 God tells us exactly what the SECOND DEATH is. "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH." Now let me make this a little plainer. Definitions of men can be given backward. For instance, the definition, "An island is a tract of land completely surrounded by water," can be given thus: "A tract of land completely surrounded by water is an island." This is but another way of stating the same fact. It does not, in any way, change the meaning. Now let us try this on the definition of the second death.

The Bible states it thus: "Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS the second death." Now let us turn this around for clarity. "The second death IS death and hell cast into the lake of fire." Therefore we have exactly the same meaning either way it is stated. What is the second death? It is the first death and hell cast into the lake of fire! This fact is very IMPORTANT. The second death is not merely the lake of fire. The second death is not men being tortured for ever in the lake of fire. The Holy Spirit has made it very simple and plain. The second death is the first death and hell CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. That is the Holy Spirit's definition, not mine.

Can we now open the eyes of our understanding to see that everything cast into the lake of fire pertains to DEATH? Death itself is cast into the lake of fire. Hell, the realm of the dead, is cast into the lake of fire. And those whose names are not written in the Book of Life, those who are dead, in trespasses and in sins, who inhabit hell, are cast into the lake of fire.

That is the end of death and hell and sin, for God shall destroy death in the lake of fire, He shall burn up hell in the lake of fire, and He shall consume sin and rebellion in the lake of fire. How I long to see the end of sin and death and hell!

The time is coming, praise His name! when God's Kingdom shall be All in All, and there shall be neither sin, nor sinners, nor death, nor hell. It is clear that God does not destroy men in the lake of fire, nowhere does it say that, for that would be a contradiction of terms. How can you destroy death by creating death?

How can you abolish death by bringing men under the power of eternal death from which there is no escape? Oh, no, it is not men who are destroyed in the lake of fire - it is SIN and DEATH and HELL that are destroyed. "And the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (I Cor. 15:26). Thus, the lake of fire is nothing more nor less than THE DEATH OF DEATH!

Just to confuse things even more, yes I think Satan did tell the truth. What God meant was that they would die spiritually. What Satan meant was that they wouldn't die physically.

There are variations to the meaning spirit and spiritual. A living soul consist of both body and spirit. Death of the spirit is the second death. God does not lie, there is no reason for Him to do so. Immortality is an act of God, and nothing we can do ourselves.

 

[JudaicChristian]

The spirit and the soul are not the same. The spirit of man is that part of each one of us that is made in the image of God. The soul is the mind and the intellect, the soul must be changed for it is carnal. The spirit returns to God.

The book of Revelation is a book of symbols. In the introduction to this marvelous book the beloved John explains, "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to show unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John" (Rev. 1:1). The word "signified" is from the Greek SEMAINO meaning to indicate or communicate by means of signs and symbols. The meanings of all the symbols of the Revelation are given, either in the book itself, or elsewhere in the Scriptures.

Children in school learn what we call definitions. A definition is an explanatory statement which tells us exactly what a certain thing is, as "an island is a tract of land completely surrounded by water." God also gives us definitions in His Word.

He tells us exactly what certain things are. In Rev. 20:14 God tells us exactly what the SECOND DEATH is. "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH." Now let me make this a little plainer. Definitions of men can be given backward. For instance, the definition, "An island is a tract of land completely surrounded by water," can be given thus: "A tract of land completely surrounded by water is an island." This is but another way of stating the same fact. It does not, in any way, change the meaning. Now let us try this on the definition of the second death.

The Bible states it thus: "Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS the second death." Now let us turn this around for clarity. "The second death IS death and hell cast into the lake of fire." Therefore we have exactly the same meaning either way it is stated. What is the second death? It is the first death and hell cast into the lake of fire! This fact is very IMPORTANT. The second death is not merely the lake of fire. The second death is not men being tortured for ever in the lake of fire. The Holy Spirit has made it very simple and plain. The second death is the first death and hell CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. That is the Holy Spirit's definition, not mine.

Can we now open the eyes of our understanding to see that everything cast into the lake of fire pertains to DEATH? Death itself is cast into the lake of fire. Hell, the realm of the dead, is cast into the lake of fire. And those whose names are not written in the Book of Life, those who are dead, in trespasses and in sins, who inhabit hell, are cast into the lake of fire.

That is the end of death and hell and sin, for God shall destroy death in the lake of fire, He shall burn up hell in the lake of fire, and He shall consume sin and rebellion in the lake of fire. How I long to see the end of sin and death and hell!

The time is coming, praise His name! when God's Kingdom shall be All in All, and there shall be neither sin, nor sinners, nor death, nor hell. It is clear that God does not destroy men in the lake of fire, nowhere does it say that, for that would be a contradiction of terms. How can you destroy death by creating death?

How can you abolish death by bringing men under the power of eternal death from which there is no escape? Oh, no, it is not men who are destroyed in the lake of fire - it is SIN and DEATH and HELL that are destroyed. "And the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (I Cor. 15:26). Thus, the lake of fire is nothing more nor less than THE DEATH OF DEATH!

Just to confuse things even more, yes I think Satan did tell the truth. What God meant was that they would die spiritually. What Satan meant was that they wouldn't die physically.

There are variations to the meaning spirit and spiritual. A living soul consist of both body and spirit. Death of the spirit is the second death. God does not lie, there is no reason for Him to do so. Immortality is an act of God, and nothing we can do ourselves.

Yes, the lake of fire is a parabolic phrase. Lake being the body of the condemned, and fire being the judgement. [And after that] death and the grave are done away with. But only after the judement.

 

[Benoni]

Of course after judgement. Is not God a just God.

Matthew: 12: 18 “Look at my Servant, whom I have chosen.
He is my Beloved, who pleases me.
I will put my Spirit upon him,
and he will proclaim justice to the nations.
19 He will not fight or shout
or raise his voice in public.
20 He will not crush the weakest reed
or put out a flickering candle.
Finally he will cause justice to be victorious.
21 And his name will be the hope
of all the world.â€[a]

 

[prough91]

People not getting punished for their sins is not justice.

 

[Benoni]

God caused the fall of all men, God will fix the fall for all humanity.


1 Corinthians 15:22-24

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming

People not getting punished for their sins is not justice.

 

[jasoncran]

there has to a permamanent punishment otherwise why the cross as it was neccessary to redeem men from the sins and death spirtually, natural death wasnt done away with, but rathers is used a means to mortify the flesh, so that the new body and incorruptable can be raised.

 

[glorydaz]

God caused the fall of all men, God will fix the fall for all humanity.


1 Corinthians 15:22-24

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming

People not getting punished for their sins is not justice.

God did not cause the fall of all men.

 

[JudaicChristian]

there has to a permamanent punishment otherwise why the cross as it was neccessary to redeem men from the sins and death spirtually, natural death wasnt done away with, but rathers is used a means to mortify the flesh, so that the new body and incorruptable can be raised.

There is a permanent punishment for the condemned, it's called death. If peoples sins cost them their life, then why think they have escaped judgements justice. We worship a God who is merciful.

 

[jasoncran]

there has to a permamanent punishment otherwise why the cross as it was neccessary to redeem men from the sins and death spirtually, natural death wasnt done away with, but rathers is used a means to mortify the flesh, so that the new body and incorruptable can be raised.

There is a permanent punishment for the condemned, it's called death. If peoples sins cost them their life, then why think they have escaped judgements justice. We worship a God who is merciful.

I know that mdo57, death is judgment for the sinner, but is the means for the saved for being raised in the new body.

 

[Geo]

Some believe they cannot loose their salvation, so sin cannot destroy any assumed family relationship. While others conclude this to be a false doctrine, but just in case there would be any major sin left that would be a deciding judgement factor after death, at least THEN would this not have the consequences that are usually associated with hell. Ahh, almost like a shift of "osas-timing". Except this one is about "damage control". The seeker friendly death. That is what most are looking for.

"it's only about that you will loose the crown of benefits that life would have had to offer, but otherwise you are off the hook." Sounds good, but is it true? It's like "easy death", no pain, no remorse. And the best of all: no knowledge of anything. Just what most atheists also always expected, it simply ends. No accountability. But also no real loss, and for all unbelievers that not really believe that there is any reward for the righteous the question pops up: So why bother?

Sounds like a definition of "death" and "life" according to Biblical terms is in order. This has to be consistent with all of Scripture, not just quick shots like "if there would be any awareness on side of the dead that would mean they are "alive", and the dead have no life" - that's just a conclusion based on personal understanding of what the terms could mean, nothing of that is actually written.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Some believe they cannot loose their salvation, so sin cannot destroy any assumed family relationship. While others conclude this to be a false doctrine, but just in case there would be any major sin left that would be a deciding judgement factor after death, at least THEN would this not have the consequences that are usually associated with hell. Ahh, almost like a shift of "osas-timing". Except this one is about "damage control". The seeker friendly death. That is what most are looking for.

"it's only about that you will loose the crown of benefits that life would have had to offer, but otherwise you are off the hook." Sounds good, but is it true? It's like "easy death", no pain, no remorse. And the best of all: no knowledge of anything. Just what most atheists also always expected, it simply ends. No accountability. But also no real loss, and for all unbelievers that not really believe that there is any reward for the righteous the question pops up: So why bother?

Sounds like a definition of "death" and "life" according to Biblical terms is in order. This has to be consistent with all of Scripture, not just quick shots like "if there would be any awareness on side of the dead that would mean they are "alive", and the dead have no life" - that's just a conclusion based on personal understanding of what the terms could mean, nothing of that is actually written.

It is my understanding that the condemned are also raised back up to life. The condemned are made aware of their judgement before their lives are taken from them. Imagine how terrible that will be.