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[_ Old Earth _] What did predators eat before the fall?
- Thread starter jwu
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jasoncran
Member
you are wanting us to define this.
let me ask you this.
since we cant really answer this as all animals were CHANGED by the lord.
what will the earth be like in the new age, satan destroyed, and sin done away with.?
if the bible says that the believers recieves everlasting life? where will he or she be.
matthew 5:5 "blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth
john 3:16"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotton Son, that whoesever beliveth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life"
revalation 21:10" and he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God"
revalation 21:4 "and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes, and there shall be no more DEATH, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be more PAIN:for the FORMER things are passed away"
if the lord is able to to create the earth and used evolution ,then what of this?hmm what causes pain?
sickness? that causes pain and sorrow and death, take note that is in the same verse that describes the descent of the city of jersusalem.
let me ask you this.
since we cant really answer this as all animals were CHANGED by the lord.
what will the earth be like in the new age, satan destroyed, and sin done away with.?
if the bible says that the believers recieves everlasting life? where will he or she be.
matthew 5:5 "blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth
john 3:16"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotton Son, that whoesever beliveth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life"
revalation 21:10" and he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God"
revalation 21:4 "and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes, and there shall be no more DEATH, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be more PAIN:for the FORMER things are passed away"
if the lord is able to to create the earth and used evolution ,then what of this?hmm what causes pain?
sickness? that causes pain and sorrow and death, take note that is in the same verse that describes the descent of the city of jersusalem.
Yes. I really do.jasoncran said:
So a miraculous change is it, ok, we're taking steps forward. What kind of change though? Did they have pointy teeth already before the fall? What about venom glands, or spiders' digestive fluid injecting fangs?
What scriptural evidence is there for such changes?
[/quote:3qydjc8w]No more pain - that's pretty good evidence for a non-physical state of existence.
Or will no-one on the new earth ever take a careless step and twist his ankle again? I'm serious about this question!
jasoncran
Member
if you look at the bible it states where we will be . when you fit the toe in their and try to understand with the natrual mind its impossible to grasp that.
no sun, and no death and no pain,no sorrow. but its there in the word. and if you really take note that tree of life is back agiain.
it's hard for me to grasp the world being this different from now to the beggining and in the new age. but i must accept that, to me its as easy to accept the cross and the death and miracles, same power and same miracle.all by faith.
i dont have to know how God will do it and how he did it just that he did. that aint good for a scienctist but on a theological level that is what needs to be done.
no sun, and no death and no pain,no sorrow. but its there in the word. and if you really take note that tree of life is back agiain.
it's hard for me to grasp the world being this different from now to the beggining and in the new age. but i must accept that, to me its as easy to accept the cross and the death and miracles, same power and same miracle.all by faith.
i dont have to know how God will do it and how he did it just that he did. that aint good for a scienctist but on a theological level that is what needs to be done.
jasoncran
Member
if you look at the bible it states where we will be . when you fit the toe in their and try to understand with the natrual mind its impossible to grasp that.
no sun, and no death and no pain,no sorrow. but its there in the word. and if you really take note that tree of life is back agiain.
it's hard for me to grasp the world being this different from now to the beggining and in the new age. but i must accept that, to me its as easy to accept the cross and the death and miracles, same power and same miracle.all by faith.
i dont have to know how God will do it and how he did it just that he did. that aint good for a scienctist but on a theological level that is what needs to be done.
no sun, and no death and no pain,no sorrow. but its there in the word. and if you really take note that tree of life is back agiain.
it's hard for me to grasp the world being this different from now to the beggining and in the new age. but i must accept that, to me its as easy to accept the cross and the death and miracles, same power and same miracle.all by faith.
i dont have to know how God will do it and how he did it just that he did. that aint good for a scienctist but on a theological level that is what needs to be done.
jasoncran
Member
[/quote:14tzxgr8]No more pain - that's pretty good evidence for a non-physical state of existence.jwu said:
how does inherit the earth and not be able to live on it? if men were meant to be a "spirit" alone then why put him on the earth?
Or will no-one on the new earth ever take a careless step and twist his ankle again? I'm serious about this question![/quote:14tzxgr8]
please.
And as a scientifically minded person that is not something i can find satisfying. I have no problems with certain miracles. But i cannot accept an interpretation that seems to violate basic logic to me. In such a situation i see no other option than to consider alternative interpretations.jasoncran said:
No sun, no death, no pain, no sorrow - a physical world cannot work that way based on what we know. Won't there problems with overpopulation? What about the physical bodies of the resurrected dead, what if they shared physical matter with other persons, who is going to get it in case of a conflict? At the appearance of what physical age will they be resurrected? A physical world opens up so many questions that need to be addressed....
i'm really serious, even though it may sound ridiculous. No accidents anymore, at all? No lovesickness?
Umm...
"And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things."
How does this say anything about snakes growing poison glands? And in a literal interpretation this even comes about 2000 years too late.
jasoncran
Member
i'm really serious, even though it may sound ridiculous. No accidents anymore, at all? No lovesickness?The new bodies we will have wont see death and are raised no to die. the word for body in the book of corinthians is soma that is in the new ressurection of the immortal body.jwu said:
Umm...
"And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things."
How does this say anything about snakes growing poison glands? And in a literal interpretation this even comes about 2000 years too late.[/quote:10irsynj]
your problem is simple, YOU LACK FAITH.
Crying Rock
Member
jwu said:Assuming that there was no physical death before it.
I don't know, maybe the same things as these:
http://pioneermindset.files.wordpress.c ... ittens.jpg
http://takingcareofkittens.com/images/t ... ttens1.jpg
http://temunot.files.wordpress.com/2008 ... 40x480.jpg
http://www.vegancats.com/
jasoncran
Member
jwu dont take this wrong.
if the lord were to call you into a ministry i think that you wouldnt answer the call, as you want to know all the little tiny tiny details
its called trust, let go and trust the lord to do this. and let him deal with those impossibilites
btw when you are converted , welcome to the basics of the faith, you havent scratched the surface of the bible.
i have looked and learned about the end times and saw things that i didnt see before.
if the lord were to call you into a ministry i think that you wouldnt answer the call, as you want to know all the little tiny tiny details
its called trust, let go and trust the lord to do this. and let him deal with those impossibilites
btw when you are converted , welcome to the basics of the faith, you havent scratched the surface of the bible.
i have looked and learned about the end times and saw things that i didnt see before.
jasoncran
Member
this is the verses on the physical ressurection of an immortal body and site explaining this well
http://www.christianorigins.com/resbody.html
i was mainly using the revelations verses and matthew confirms this. as it aslo in 1 corinthians
read and comment.
this is where the bible authors when are inspired by the lord will be backed up by other books. the lord is a genius.
my carnal mind cant fathom what the new heaven and earth will be, but i can trust the lord it will be awesome.
http://www.christianorigins.com/resbody.html
i was mainly using the revelations verses and matthew confirms this. as it aslo in 1 corinthians
read and comment.
this is where the bible authors when are inspired by the lord will be backed up by other books. the lord is a genius.
my carnal mind cant fathom what the new heaven and earth will be, but i can trust the lord it will be awesome.
Cats and dogs are one thing - they are borderline omnivores. E.g. spiders are not, with the exception of one out of 40.000 species. They are physically incapable of ingesting plant matter.Crying Rock said:
Many other insects depend on laying their eggs in living host animals, killing these in the process. They couldn't procreate without this mechanism.
Either God created these vile methods of procreation, or they evolved.
jasoncran
Member
oh i think he created them after the flood or made them before and modified them. this is something we wont know for sure.
i haven heard the creationist argument. just pointing out something from the theological point
i dont fully understand how he did it just that he did and it cant violate his word.
a physicall ressurection on a new earth is biblical. how it will be done i dont know
i didnt ask him how he delivered me from bisexuality,porn and so on.
i haven heard the creationist argument. just pointing out something from the theological point
i dont fully understand how he did it just that he did and it cant violate his word.
a physicall ressurection on a new earth is biblical. how it will be done i dont know
i didnt ask him how he delivered me from bisexuality,porn and so on.
The authors of that site tries so desperately to prove a physical resurrection that it doesn't even seem to consider anything else. This is taken straight from that site.jasoncran said:
Can it get any more clear than that, than "it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body"?
This too.
That's the easiest part. What about the others? What age? With or without reproductive organs then?jasoncran said:
And these won't be susceptible to accidents nor lovesickness?
your problem is simple, YOU LACK FAITH.[/quote:33ukxvl0]Yes, there obviously are things that i cannot take by faith no matter what.
In my opinion faith and reason must not be mutually exclusive.
jasoncran
Member
read the whole thing and you will see how they reconcile that uh, they go the greek in that. soma
if were are meant to be in heaven and are spirits only why then are we on the earth and matthew says that we inherit the earth.
is that verse a parable then. we die and what happens to us upon ressurection we inherit the earth.
how can we ressurect something if we dont die first then arent able to recieve it.
is this new earth, heaven according to you
if so then mathew should say that they meek shall inherit the earth.
reason only goes so far. one cant use reason to prove God, thus the limits of apologetics, how you get to see and please God by faith alone.
if were are meant to be in heaven and are spirits only why then are we on the earth and matthew says that we inherit the earth.
is that verse a parable then. we die and what happens to us upon ressurection we inherit the earth.
how can we ressurect something if we dont die first then arent able to recieve it.
is this new earth, heaven according to you
if so then mathew should say that they meek shall inherit the earth.
reason only goes so far. one cant use reason to prove God, thus the limits of apologetics, how you get to see and please God by faith alone.
jasoncran
Member
1Co 15:35-38 But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?" You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own.
Paul again and again uses the term "soma" to describe what is resurrected. The use of this term, meant to imply the physical, establishes Paul's belief in the physical resurrection of Jesus and of Christians.
Additionally, that Greek skepticism of physical resurrection was at the heart of the problem becomes clear as Paul moves on to address another question raised by those who reject his doctrine of the resurrection--what kind of body would a "resurrected body" be? The question is not about life after death (easily accepted by Greeks as a "spiritual resurrection"), but the idea of a physical resurrection itself was absurd to the questioner. Again, the fact that Paul is having to argue what kind of "soma" was raised strongly suggests that he has previously taught, and currently defending, the doctrine of a physical resurrection.
1Co 15:39-49 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So also it is written, "The first man Adam, became a living soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.
First, Paul uses "soma" to throughout to describe the resurrected body.
Second, Paul uses the analogy of a seed, noting that it is "sown" a natural body but raised a spiritual body. This strongly suggests continuity between the first body and the new body, just as a seed becomes a plan, the old body becomes the new body. The obvious differences between the seed and the plan are irrelevant, as it is the continuity that we are concerned with.
It is significant that Talmudic literature uses the same analogy of a seed to explain the connection between the old body and the new one following the resurrection. According to the Talmud, Rabbi Meier used the metaphor of a grain of wheat sown into the ground but raised a blossoming flower: "If a kernel fo wheat is buried naked and will sprout forth in many robes, how much more so the righteous." (b. Sanh. 90b). Not only does this highlight Paul's Jewishness, it further suggests that Paul was discussing--as was Rabbi Meier--a physical resurrection.
please you should have looked at the greek word soma, that is the original nt translation where body is used. please try not to cherry pick this stuff as mattherew 5:5 needs to be addressed. is the earth an type of heavean to you.
Paul again and again uses the term "soma" to describe what is resurrected. The use of this term, meant to imply the physical, establishes Paul's belief in the physical resurrection of Jesus and of Christians.
Additionally, that Greek skepticism of physical resurrection was at the heart of the problem becomes clear as Paul moves on to address another question raised by those who reject his doctrine of the resurrection--what kind of body would a "resurrected body" be? The question is not about life after death (easily accepted by Greeks as a "spiritual resurrection"), but the idea of a physical resurrection itself was absurd to the questioner. Again, the fact that Paul is having to argue what kind of "soma" was raised strongly suggests that he has previously taught, and currently defending, the doctrine of a physical resurrection.
1Co 15:39-49 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So also it is written, "The first man Adam, became a living soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.
First, Paul uses "soma" to throughout to describe the resurrected body.
Second, Paul uses the analogy of a seed, noting that it is "sown" a natural body but raised a spiritual body. This strongly suggests continuity between the first body and the new body, just as a seed becomes a plan, the old body becomes the new body. The obvious differences between the seed and the plan are irrelevant, as it is the continuity that we are concerned with.
It is significant that Talmudic literature uses the same analogy of a seed to explain the connection between the old body and the new one following the resurrection. According to the Talmud, Rabbi Meier used the metaphor of a grain of wheat sown into the ground but raised a blossoming flower: "If a kernel fo wheat is buried naked and will sprout forth in many robes, how much more so the righteous." (b. Sanh. 90b). Not only does this highlight Paul's Jewishness, it further suggests that Paul was discussing--as was Rabbi Meier--a physical resurrection.
please you should have looked at the greek word soma, that is the original nt translation where body is used. please try not to cherry pick this stuff as mattherew 5:5 needs to be addressed. is the earth an type of heavean to you.
Crying Rock
Member
I squeeze insect larvae out of livestock all the time. However, I would like to know the "many" insects that depend on hosts for reproduction and necessarily kill them.
I'll catch with you bros on Tuesday. Time to start the BBQ.