[_ Old Earth _] What did predators eat before the fall?

[Bronzesnake]

Bronzesnake wrote; We are also depicted coming back to earth with Jesus riding on a white horse.
Also, the Holy city comes down from heaven and lands on earth where it remains.
Jesus also tells us that He went home to prepare a mansion for each of us. Why would we need homes if we didn't have a body?
The scriptures also tell us that we will dwell on this earth forever.

Ah, and heaven is supposed to be a physical place too?

Yes. Here are just a very few verses which describe physical elements in Heaven.
John 14:2 in my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings , and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

At the end of Revealation, we see the Holy City coming down from Heaven and settling on earth where it will remain for eternity.
There is an excellent detailed description including accurate measurements of this very physical place.

Rev 21 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.†10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. 16The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadiaa in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17He measured its wall and it was 144 cubitsb thick,c by man’s measurement, which the angel was using. 18The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.d 21The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass.
22I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Isaiah 11:6 The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain," says the LORD.

And exactly that has "allegory" written all over it.
Anyway, so you say that carnivores are going to eat straw. How are they going to digest it, how are they going to chew it with carnivore teeth?

How do you know these verses are allegory? I’ve seen many literal scriptures disregarded and put down as allegory simply because people don’t believe them.
Any time either figurative language, or parable, or allegory is used in the scriptures a literal meaning is given. There is no such alternative meaning for these scriptures because they are literal.

About the animals eating straw. You'll have to ask Jesus about that when you see Him.
All I know is if Jesus says it will be so, then I believe it.

Take care.

John

 

[jwu]

yes, but you seem to believe science that changes all the time(its nature) over what an omipotent God tell his persons to write.

I find it better to adjust one's position in the light of new evidence to get a more and more accurate understanding than to stick to a position that is proven false by hard evidence just for the sake of not changing one's position.

did the prophet isiah understand the verses on the coming of the messiah like we do, problably not but he just wrote them and believed that the lord would do what we do.

Can you read his mind?

tell me what do you believe? do you even pray, for you see by your thinking we should just beleive that the god only uses natural processes to heal(he can and does) but what are you gonna do when you are told by the docs that you are dying? pray and not believe the god will heal you.

No, i'm not saying that God uses natural processes exclusively, and i think i have been perfectly clear about that in my past posts.

the lord tells noah that he put the rainbow in the sky as a reminder not to flood the earth and destroy all flesh by the flood. if the rainbow was around before the flood, you might think that noah would know what the rainbow was as that wouldnt be a novel idea to him.

Well, a global deluge is falsified by evidence...or can you identify the strata that it laid down all around the globe?

Yes. Here are just a very few verses which describe physical elements in Heaven.

You're aware that people use terms of physical objects to describe what any place would be like, as there is no vocabulary to describe metaphysical places? And what about "the lamb"? Is that supposed to be literal too? What about the "little child"?

Frankly, i find it rather odd to believe that God cares much about bling-bling. Note that the measurements have symbolic values all over them - multiples of twelve, etc.

"Nations walk" is an anthropomorphism, and those kings would actually rather be presidents, chairmen and chancellors, given how politics has changed. So a literal interpretation is out for that one as well. I could go on.

How do you know these verses are allegory? I’ve seen many literal scriptures disregarded and put down as allegory simply because people don’t believe them.
Any time either figurative language, or parable, or allegory is used in the scriptures a literal meaning is given. There is no such alternative meaning for these scriptures because they are literal.

What makes you so certain that there is no alternative meaning in first instance though? I see plenty of that, particularly in Genesis.

 

[jasoncran]

jwu, is the lord that you serve a liar?

if God wrote it, if he knew that i would be a regional flood then why state that all flesh was destroyed.

since when do we try to "proove" the bible statements?

yrs ago these men were thought to be mythical:
king david
king solomon
and beltashazaar

turns out despite all the "archologists proofs that denied those persons" were wrong. they did exist.

i trust my God makes the bible simple and easy to be understood, and not twist and say like the devil did to eve, did the Lord really say.

i hope one day that the lord will reveal himself to you, he has to me.

i see that we are at empasse

 

[jwu]

jwu, is the lord that you serve a liar?

No, he isn't.

if God wrote it, if he knew that i would be a regional flood then why state that all flesh was destroyed.

I don't think God wrote the story about Noah's flood in first instance though.

yrs ago these men were thought to be mythical:
king david
king solomon
and beltashazaar

turns out despite all the "archologists proofs that denied those persons" were wrong. they did exist.

What "archologists proofs" are you talking about? Besides, this is an entirely different question than that of a global cataclysm. You do believe that that global deluge really happened and that it must have left hard physical evidence in form of sediments, right? So, which particular strata are it? If you were a sceptic, what would you think if such a simple yet crucial question were consistently ignored?

 

[Barbarian]

if God wrote it, if he knew that i would be a regional flood then why state that all flesh was destroyed.

He says all flesh on the land. But "land" doesn't have to mean the whole world. Further, he says:
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Obviously a perfect and omniscient God would not repent anything. This is an allegorical statement, unless God is imperfect.

 

[jasoncran]

if God wrote it, if he knew that i would be a regional flood then why state that all flesh was destroyed.

He says all flesh on the land. But "land" doesn't have to mean the whole world. Further, he says:
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Obviously a perfect and omniscient God would not repent anything. This is an allegorical statement, unless God is imperfect.

that still doenst add up, for this part denies what you claim barb. "i will destroy man whom i have created from the face of the earth, and then the last part for it repententh me that i have made them.

that doenst add up , barb. for only those in that area were evil? why then build the ark to save those animals when he could have told them go warn and on this day leave this land and i will flood it.

surely men were way outside the the area of turkey before the flood. and God can repent,as he did that with the judgment of the city of niveneh, same word is probalby used. it means regret not repent in this context,but it can mean repent as well.

 

[Crying Rock]

if God wrote it, if he knew that i would be a regional flood then why state that all flesh was destroyed.

He says all flesh on the land. But "land" doesn't have to mean the whole world. Further, he says:
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Obviously a perfect and omniscient God would not repent anything. This is an allegorical statement, unless God is imperfect.

that still doenst add up, for this part denies what you claim barb. "i will destroy man whom i have created from the face of the earth, and then the last part for it repententh me that i have made them.

that doenst add up , barb. for only those in that area were evil? why then build the ark to save those animals when he could have told them go warn and on this day leave this land and i will flood it.

surely men were way outside the the area of turkey before the flood. and God can repent,as he did that with the judgment of the city of niveneh, same word is probalby used. it means regret not repent in this context,but it can mean repent as well.

So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth--men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air--for I am grieved that I have made them."

Genesis 6:7

New International Version

 

[Barbarian]

that still doenst add up, for this part denies what you claim barb. "i will destroy man whom i have created from the face of the earth, and then the last part for it repententh me that i have made them.

The word eretz does not mean "the entire earth." It just means "land."

that doenst add up , barb.

It is what it is. This is why most Christians see it as allegory. It is impossible for an omniscient God to repent anything.

for only those in that area were evil? why then build the ark to save those animals when he could have told them go warn and on this day leave this land and i will flood it.

The flood we actually know about would have advanced a mile or two a day, for hundreds of miles.

surely men were way outside the the area of turkey before the flood. and God can repent,as he did that with the judgment of the city of niveneh, same word is probalby used. it means regret not repent in this context,but it can mean repent as well.

An omnisicent being can't regret, either. He knows the outcome of whatever He does.

 

[Barbarian]

Genesis 6:7

New International Version

Yes, if you change "land" to "the face of the earth", then it works for YE. But changing His word to fit our desires is not a good thing.

 

[Crying Rock]

Genesis 6:7

New International Version

Yes, if you change "land" to "the face of the earth", then it works for YE. But changing His word to fit our desires is not a good thing.

So the authors of the NIV got it wrong?

So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth--men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air--for I am grieved that I have made them."

Genesis 6:7

New International Version

My point wasn't an issue about YE/OE.

You know I'm an OE proponent.

 

[jasoncran]

but the word used is the same. for its the actions of men to repent or not to repent causes god to act.
in that case i wonder what your thinking is when peter talked about the whole earth being melted with a fervent heat.which a few verses down from the reference to the flood.

and what was the point for such a large vessel and saving of the animals if it was only a 'regional" event.