What do you say to an atheist?

[DarcyLu]

Hi Bob

One of the faults that many Christians have, is what is called a false hope. Instead of dealing with the pain of death, which includes crying and comfort from others. They deal with it another way. This is where the problem comes in. When a baby or grown up dies, they do not go to heaven. Its a lie. But they have become so religeous in their veiw of christianity. And they look for an out from their pain, they will believe just about anything false to cover up or convert their pain, by saying and believing something that is not true.

As it is true, one day we will have eternal life with God. God tells us to be patient . But some people lack patience and then accept false doctorines to mask the pain of the reality of death.

They can have the same hope, the proper hope that the Word of God gives us, without living in this false hope, that when you die, you don't really die, you just go to heaven. It is one of the tricks of the adversary in believing this false doctorine.

The true hope is future.

Many in christianity believe many false doctorines. This is just one of them. And I am sure you as well as others see the many beliefs by many Christians. And the many differing beliefs. This confusion makes it more difficult to help others to see the truth.

IN Christ - MM

wow MM, i can tell you as a Christian, death is devastating and extremely painful, i don't know anyone who has been affected by someone dying in their lives, that we do not go through pain and suffering. i personally miss the people whom i have lost every single day of my life, and i in no way trivialize it. what Christians do have is hope, the pain and suffering is real and so is the hope. the Word doesn't really say where dead people go - not sure why you are saying, when we die, we go straight to heaven???

 

[LaCrum]

OK, if one can be a slave to the flesh and still be generous and care deeply about others then I don't mind so much being a slave to the flesh. It's a very negative way of putting things though. I think it would be a tragedy to waste your life without paying attention to it. The belief that this is it, not just a trailer for the feature pesentation, is actually very life affirming. It makes it clear just how precious life is.

Years ago I knew this very devout Christian girl, and we both knew a baby who died in really grim circumstances. I was devastated but I honestly think it made little impact on her. She just said that it was part of God's plan and that the baby was in heaven and then carried on as before. Since then I've found Christian detachment from the world rather disconcerting

The Bible regards being a "slave to the flesh" as a "slave to sin", meaning, you didn't have a choice whether to sin or not, you will naturally always choose the more sinful path. That's why the NT talks so often of being "free" from sin, we now have a choice to be good or bad, where as before we didn't.

It's still possible for a non-Christian to possess some of the fruits of the spirit, but they will never come to full fruitation without God tending them.

I, and all the other Christians I am friends with, don't disregard the worries and sadness of this world. Jesus himself didn't come to ignore those in need, he came to heal them and reach out to them. And, he commands Christians do the same. To make a general assumptions that Christians don't value this life is very disingenious to all of us who do. My heart would break the same for a family who lost a child regardless of the fact of that child being in Heaven now.

The Christian view does not teach us to ignore pain, because the NT states clearly we will suffer, but instead not to lose hope through it.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi Bob

One of the faults that many Christians have, is what is called a false hope. Instead of dealing with the pain of death, which includes crying and comfort from others. They deal with it another way. This is where the problem comes in. When a baby or grown up dies, they do not go to heaven. Its a lie. But they have become so religeous in their veiw of christianity. And they look for an out from their pain, they will believe just about anything false to cover up or convert their pain, by saying and believing something that is not true.

As it is true, one day we will have eternal life with God. God tells us to be patient . But some people lack patience and then accept false doctorines to mask the pain of the reality of death.

They can have the same hope, the proper hope that the Word of God gives us, without living in this false hope, that when you die, you don't really die, you just go to heaven. It is one of the tricks of the adversary in believing this false doctorine.

The true hope is future.

Many in christianity believe many false doctorines. This is just one of them. And I am sure you as well as others see the many beliefs by many Christians. And the many differing beliefs. This confusion makes it more difficult to help others to see the truth.

IN Christ - MM

wow MM, i can tell you as a Christian, death is devastating and extremely painful, i don't know anyone who has been affected by someone dying in their lives, that we do not go through pain and suffering. i personally miss the people whom i have lost every single day of my life, and i in no way trivialize it. what Christians do have is hope, the pain and suffering is real and so is the hope. the Word doesn't really say where dead people go - not sure why you are saying, when we die, we go straight to heaven???

Amazing , just amazing !

I never said that ! I said we don't go straight to heaven ! Who's post were you reading ? Please read what is written ! Its difficult enough trying to exlain certain things to people. Then one comes along who does not read "what" the poster actually said !

And !!! I never said people don't suffer from a death . I said the opposite ! People need to cry and be comforted !

Just Amazing !

Just Amazing !

 

[logical bob]

To make a general assumptions that Christians don't value this life is very disingenious to all of us who do.

I'm not making any general assumptions, just telling one story. From what I've read of your posts your humanity is clearly evident.

 

[DarcyLu]

The Bible regards being a "slave to the flesh" as a "slave to sin", meaning, you didn't have a choice whether to sin or not, you will naturally always choose the more sinful path. That's why the NT talks so often of being "free" from sin, we now have a choice to be good or bad, where as before we didn't.

It's still possible for a non-Christian to possess some of the fruits of the spirit, but they will never come to full fruitation without God tending them.

I, and all the other Christians I am friends with, don't disregard the worries and sadness of this world. Jesus himself didn't come to ignore those in need, he came to heal them and reach out to them. And, he commands Christians do the same. To make a general assumptions that Christians don't value this life is very disingenious to all of us who do. My heart would break the same for a family who lost a child regardless of the fact of that child being in Heaven now.

The Christian view does not teach us to ignore pain, because the NT states clearly we will suffer, but instead not to lose hope through it.

i agree with most of this LaCrum, the fruit the world bears, however is not the same as The Fruit of the Spirit as they do not have the Holy Spirit to guide, grow and teach, my 2 cents.
our sufferings do not go to waste, God uses our suffering to manifest Christ - which is what this life is all about and i would say most true Christians, value this life in that we are manifesting Him and all we go through is a lesson and a teaching, if we are careful to adhere to His teachings. God never misses an opportunity to teach us and sometimes the lessons are extremely difficult and painful.

 

[DarcyLu]

Hi Bob

One of the faults that many Christians have, is what is called a false hope. Instead of dealing with the pain of death, which includes crying and comfort from others. They deal with it another way. This is where the problem comes in. When a baby or grown up dies, they do not go to heaven. Its a lie. But they have become so religeous in their veiw of christianity. And they look for an out from their pain, they will believe just about anything false to cover up or convert their pain, by saying and believing something that is not true.

As it is true, one day we will have eternal life with God. God tells us to be patient . But some people lack patience and then accept false doctorines to mask the pain of the reality of death.

They can have the same hope, the proper hope that the Word of God gives us, without living in this false hope, that when you die, you don't really die, you just go to heaven. It is one of the tricks of the adversary in believing this false doctorine.

The true hope is future.

Many in christianity believe many false doctorines. This is just one of them. And I am sure you as well as others see the many beliefs by many Christians. And the many differing beliefs. This confusion makes it more difficult to help others to see the truth.

IN Christ - MM

wow MM, i can tell you as a Christian, death is devastating and extremely painful, i don't know anyone who has been affected by someone dying in their lives, that we do not go through pain and suffering. i personally miss the people whom i have lost every single day of my life, and i in no way trivialize it. what Christians do have is hope, the pain and suffering is real and so is the hope. the Word doesn't really say where dead people go - not sure why you are saying, when we die, we go straight to heaven???

Amazing , just amazing !

I never said that ! I said we don't go straight to heaven ! Who's post were you reading ? Please read what is written ! Its difficult enough trying to exlain certain things to people. Then one comes along who does not read "what" the poster actually said !

And !!! I never said people don't suffer from a death . I said the opposite ! People need to cry and be comforted !

Just Amazing !

Just Amazing !

calm down mm, you did say it - reread your post. lol

 

[Mysteryman]

I give up trying to reason with you.

There are always going to be people who are so unreasonable, that no matter what you say, they will read something totally different.

 

[Physicist]

Facts versus opinions.

Self-preservation and fulfilling the lusts of the flesh are of paramount importance to those who do not know God.

Wow. :o

Christianity is very much concerned with salvation and living forever, so it's strange to say that it's non-Christians who find self preservation important. Atheists accept that self preservation is impossible. Whatever we do, in the long run we're dead.

You know one fact about me - that I'm an atheist. From that you presume to know that fulfilling the lusts of the flesh is of paramount importance to me. Doesn't that strike you as rude to say the least?

Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself.

Bob, everyone is self-preserving at some point, but non-Christians generallly more so. The Christian faith is not necessarily about us having eternal life with God, it's about having a relationship with Him who called us before the ages.

Everyone is a slave of the lusts of the flesh, but in general, non-Christians much more so. Athiests see this life on earth as their only life, right? So they are a slave to it. We see this all the time. The Bible tells us not to be slaves to this world, as we are a part of something much bigger, so we (as Christians) can set our eyes, hopes and treasures fully on the life which is yet to come.

But I believe we're going off-topic here.

A wise man observed that everyone is entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts.

You make the claim that atheist are slaves to this world and self-serving. Do the actual facts support this? The answer is a resounding no. Scandinavia and Japan, which have the proportionately largest non-believer component in their population, give a larger portion of their national income to aid to the poor nations than does the US. Even within this country, atheists have lower divorce rates, lower rates of alchohol and drug abuse rates, and lower crime rates than do fundamentalist Christians.

It is my personal belief that better opinions are fact-based rather than faith-based.

 

[DarcyLu]

Re: Facts versus opinions.

A wise man observed that everyone is entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts.

You make the claim that atheist are slaves to this world and self-serving. Do the actual facts support this? The answer is a resounding no. Scandinavia and Japan, which have the proportionately largest non-believer component in their population, give a larger portion of their national income to aid to the poor nations than does the US. Even within this country, atheists have lower divorce rates, lower rates of alchohol and drug abuse rates, and lower crime rates than do fundamentalist Christians.

It is my personal belief that better opinions are fact-based rather than faith-based.

hi Physicist,
where did you get your statistics?
another point i would like to make is, just because Christians are Christians does not mean we do not have our share of suffering and trouble. in fact, Satan does a good job at attacking those who are against him, he likes to divide us and division is one of his chief ways of trying to destroy Christians. on the other hand, he will leave a non-Christian alone because they are of no concern to him, they don't threaten him in the least.
i'm not sure if you can use which nation spends more money on other nations as a factor in this as our US gov't is actually non-Christian and aids Satan in every way.

 

[DarcyLu]

I give up trying to reason with you.

There are always going to be people who are so unreasonable, that no matter what you say, they will read something totally different.

Previous post mysteryman wrote:

They can have the same hope, the proper hope that the Word of God gives us, without living in this false hope, that when you die, you don't really die, you just go to heaven. It is one of the tricks of the adversary in believing this false doctorine.

hi mysterman,
i did not mean to be difficult but the above quote of yours is not true, Christians really do die, we die, BUT we will be resurrected at the 2nd coming. that was the point i was trying to make.

 

[Physicist]

Re: Facts versus opinions.

A wise man observed that everyone is entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts.

You make the claim that atheist are slaves to this world and self-serving. Do the actual facts support this? The answer is a resounding no. Scandinavia and Japan, which have the proportionately largest non-believer component in their population, give a larger portion of their national income to aid to the poor nations than does the US. Even within this country, atheists have lower divorce rates, lower rates of alchohol and drug abuse rates, and lower crime rates than do fundamentalist Christians.

It is my personal belief that better opinions are fact-based rather than faith-based.

hi Physicist,
where did you get your statistics?
another point i would like to make is, just because Christians are Christians does not mean we do not have our share of suffering and trouble. in fact, Satan does a good job at attacking those who are against him, he likes to divide us and division is one of his chief ways of trying to destroy Christians. on the other hand, he will leave a non-Christian alone because they are of no concern to him, they don't threaten him in the least.
i'm not sure if you can use which nation spends more money on other nations as a factor in this as our US gov't is actually non-Christian and aids Satan in every way.

The statistics are from varying sources. Here, for example, is the divorce statistics:

The Associated Press 12/30/99 1:31 AM Eastern

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) -- Baptists have the highest divorce rate of any Christian denomination, and are more likely to get a divorce than atheists and agnostics, according to a national survey.

The survey conducted by Barna Research Group in Ventura, Calif., found that 29 percent of all adult Baptists have been through a divorce. Among Christian groups, only those who attend non-denominational Protestant churches were more likely to be divorced, with a 34 percent divorce rate.

Alabama, with a population of 4.3 million, has more than one million Southern Baptists and a majority of evangelical Protestants. The state ranks fourth nationally in divorce rates, behind Nevada, Tennessee and Arkansas, according to U.S. government statistics.

Barna Research Group interviewed 3,854 adults from the 48 continental states, with a margin of error of plus or minus 2 percent. The survey found that while just 11 percent of the adult population is currently divorced, 25 percent of all adults have experienced at least one divorce, the survey showed.

If the earlier poster's hypothesis were correct, the statistics should be reversed. Note that I am not claiming that atheism actually is the cause of the lower divorce rate. I think it is much more likely that both the increased atheism and lower divorce rate are correlated through higher income and education levels.

 

[DarcyLu]

Re: Facts versus opinions.

The statistics are from varying sources. Here, for example, is the divorce statistics:

The Associated Press 12/30/99 1:31 AM Eastern

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) -- Baptists have the highest divorce rate of any Christian denomination, and are more likely to get a divorce than atheists and agnostics, according to a national survey.

The survey conducted by Barna Research Group in Ventura, Calif., found that 29 percent of all adult Baptists have been through a divorce. Among Christian groups, only those who attend non-denominational Protestant churches were more likely to be divorced, with a 34 percent divorce rate.

Alabama, with a population of 4.3 million, has more than one million Southern Baptists and a majority of evangelical Protestants. The state ranks fourth nationally in divorce rates, behind Nevada, Tennessee and Arkansas, according to U.S. government statistics.

Barna Research Group interviewed 3,854 adults from the 48 continental states, with a margin of error of plus or minus 2 percent. The survey found that while just 11 percent of the adult population is currently divorced, 25 percent of all adults have experienced at least one divorce, the survey showed.

If the earlier poster's hypothesis were correct, the statistics should be reversed. Note that I am not claiming that atheism actually is the cause of the lower divorce rate. I think it is much more likely that both the increased atheism and lower divorce rate are correlated through higher income and education levels.

thanks Physicist for the statistics. i disagree with the correlation of higher income and education levels with lower divorce rates, but of course i could be wrong. i have always lived in high income level and high educational level areas (not because i am either lol, i just work for one) and i would say there is alot of divorce among the highly educated, there are alot of kids from broken homes.
i won't go into great detail about Baptists as i don't want this to go off on another tangent, but it's mainstream religion and i'll just leave it there. isn't the divorce rate in the US over 50% now? interesting none the less.

 

[Nick]

OK, if one can be a slave to the flesh and still be generous and care deeply about others then I don't mind so much being a slave to the flesh. It's a very negative way of putting things though. I think it would be a tragedy to waste your life without paying attention to it. The belief that this is it, not just a trailer for the feature pesentation, is actually very life affirming. It makes it clear just how precious life is.

Years ago I knew this very devout Christian girl, and we both knew a baby who died in really grim circumstances. I was devastated but I honestly think it made little impact on her. She just said that it was part of God's plan and that the baby was in heaven and then carried on as before. Since then I've found Christian detachment from the world rather disconcerting

The Bible regards being a "slave to the flesh" as a "slave to sin", meaning, you didn't have a choice whether to sin or not, you will naturally always choose the more sinful path. That's why the NT talks so often of being "free" from sin, we now have a choice to be good or bad, where as before we didn't.

It's still possible for a non-Christian to possess some of the fruits of the spirit, but they will never come to full fruitation without God tending them.

I, and all the other Christians I am friends with, don't disregard the worries and sadness of this world. Jesus himself didn't come to ignore those in need, he came to heal them and reach out to them. And, he commands Christians do the same. To make a general assumptions that Christians don't value this life is very disingenious to all of us who do. My heart would break the same for a family who lost a child regardless of the fact of that child being in Heaven now.

The Christian view does not teach us to ignore pain, because the NT states clearly we will suffer, but instead not to lose hope through it.

Very well said, thanks LaCrum, although I would also agree with DarcyLu that the fruits that unbelievers possess are different from the Fruits of the Spirit that Chrisitans possess as the motives for them and who gets glorifyed are different.

 

[Nick]

Re: Facts versus opinions.

A wise man observed that everyone is entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts.

You make the claim that atheist are slaves to this world and self-serving. Do the actual facts support this? The answer is a resounding no. Scandinavia and Japan, which have the proportionately largest non-believer component in their population, give a larger portion of their national income to aid to the poor nations than does the US. Even within this country, atheists have lower divorce rates, lower rates of alchohol and drug abuse rates, and lower crime rates than do fundamentalist Christians.

It is my personal belief that better opinions are fact-based rather than faith-based.

Well what better fact do we have than God's Word?

Athiests don't believe in a 'higher being' or whatever you want to call it. They cannot serve something they don't believe in. Perhaps it was an over-generalisation for me to say that athiests are always self-serving, as we have many athiests and unbelievers that do great charity work etc, but the point is that they (like Christians) are slaves of the flesh - slaves of this world. This is naturally so for all of us. The difference with unbelievers and Christians here is that Christians are saved from our sin by God's Grace, and are forgiven. We live with the Fruits of the Spirit and the Holy Spirit dwells in us, so our motivations in life are different as we have a Hope that is fixed upon the assurance of Heaven.

There is not auhtority higher than the Word of God.

 

[Physicist]

Re: Facts versus opinions.

A wise man observed that everyone is entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts.

You make the claim that atheist are slaves to this world and self-serving. Do the actual facts support this? The answer is a resounding no. Scandinavia and Japan, which have the proportionately largest non-believer component in their population, give a larger portion of their national income to aid to the poor nations than does the US. Even within this country, atheists have lower divorce rates, lower rates of alchohol and drug abuse rates, and lower crime rates than do fundamentalist Christians.

It is my personal belief that better opinions are fact-based rather than faith-based.

Well what better fact do we have than God's Word?

Athiests don't believe in a 'higher being' or whatever you want to call it. They cannot serve something they don't believe in. Perhaps it was an over-generalisation for me to say that athiests are always self-serving, as we have many athiests and unbelievers that do great charity work etc, but the point is that they (like Christians) are slaves of the flesh - slaves of this world. This is naturally so for all of us. The difference with unbelievers and Christians here is that Christians are saved from our sin by God's Grace, and are forgiven. We live with the Fruits of the Spirit and the Holy Spirit dwells in us, so our motivations in life are different as we have a Hope that is fixed upon the assurance of Heaven.

There is not auhtority higher than the Word of God.

The words of Mark Twain are appropriate here

"Man is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion -- several of them."

How do you know that your translated version of the Bible IS the Word of God? As far as I know God is not signing autographed copies. Ehrman, in his book, 'Misquoting Jesus', points out the large variations in Biblical texts and the arbitrary nature made in text selection. And, as Twain points out, there are lots of competing religions.

Atheists believe that virtue is its own reward, Statistics show that, at least in America, they exhibit ethical behavior equivalent or better than believers. Belief that you need to use an ancient text for moral guidance is based upon faith, not facts. And to quote Twain once more

´Faith is believing what you know ain´t so´.

 

[DarcyLu]

Re: Facts versus opinions.

The words of Mark Twain are appropriate here

"Man is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion -- several of them."

How do you know that your translated version of the Bible IS the Word of God? As far as I know God is not signing autographed copies. Ehrman, in his book, 'Misquoting Jesus', points out the large variations in Biblical texts and the arbitrary nature made in text selection. And, as Twain points out, there are lots of competing religions.

Atheists believe that virtue is its own reward, Statistics show that, at least in America, they exhibit ethical behavior equivalent or better than believers. Belief that you need to use an ancient text for moral guidance is based upon faith, not facts. And to quote Twain once more

´Faith is believing what you know ain´t so´.

that is not what faith means.
Statistics are only as reliable as the source in which they were taken, they can be taken and skewed to mean anything you want. the libs poll liberals, the conservatives poll conservatives, Christians poll Christians and atheists poll atheists. i never get to take the lib polls, i always have to take the conservative ones.

 

[Nick]

Re: Facts versus opinions.

The words of Mark Twain are appropriate here

"Man is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion -- several of them."

How do you know that your translated version of the Bible IS the Word of God? As far as I know God is not signing autographed copies. Ehrman, in his book, 'Misquoting Jesus', points out the large variations in Biblical texts and the arbitrary nature made in text selection. And, as Twain points out, there are lots of competing religions.

Atheists believe that virtue is its own reward, Statistics show that, at least in America, they exhibit ethical behavior equivalent or better than believers. Belief that you need to use an ancient text for moral guidance is based upon faith, not facts. And to quote Twain once more

´Faith is believing what you know ain´t so´.

that is not what faith means.
Statistics are only as reliable as the source in which they were taken, they can be taken and skewed to mean anything you want. the libs poll liberals, the conservatives poll conservatives, Christians poll Christians and atheists poll atheists. i never get to take the lib polls, i always have to take the conservative ones.

Definately.
The Christian 'religion' is unique when compared to other religions as it is faith based, not proof based (although there is proof) and it is not works based.

 

[Nick]

Re: Facts versus opinions.

How do you know that your translated version of the Bible IS the Word of God? As far as I know God is not signing autographed copies. Ehrman, in his book, 'Misquoting Jesus', points out the large variations in Biblical texts and the arbitrary nature made in text selection. And, as Twain points out, there are lots of competing religions.

Yes, there are large variations in Bible translations. I use the NIV, which has been translated directly from the original Hebrew and Ancient Greek texts.
I really encourage you to read the book or watch the DVD of "The Christfiles". It will show you the historical authenticity, reliability and accuracy of our modern Bibles, and will explore the idea that what is mentioned in the Bible did actually historically happen. Even lots of athiest scholars agree that the Bible is historically correct.

Atheists believe that virtue is its own reward, Statistics show that, at least in America, they exhibit ethical behavior equivalent or better than believers. Belief that you need to use an ancient text for moral guidance is based upon faith, not facts.

As mentioned in the post above, statistics can be skewed. Also, please show me these statistics.
Anyway, I'd prefer what the God of the universe says than some numbers, thanks.

´Faith is believing what you know ain´t so´.

Actually, faith is believing and trusting in what you cannot see. If you're going to disregard the entire of God's Word, then at least do us the honor of defining words right.

 

[anasazi avatar]

After reading all these posts, I have no doubt about why people choose to be atheists. A simple question at the start has descended into semantics and opinions ect. Where is the love for each other? Most people who believe themselves to be Christians, religious people, people in denominations, and most other believers seem to fall into this debating and arguing. Yes, this is a forum and discussing and debating and just chatting and fellowshipping together is all a part of forums. But in a lot of cases and on a lot of forums I see the same thing. I very rarely see tolerance and acceptance of another person's viewpoint and ideals. Yes, I do know that I will probably get 'jumped' on for these comments. That is the way of things.

As for the original poster of this thread and his question/post...
If someone says to me in general conversation that they are an atheist, I usually say that I am a Christian and leave things there, unless the conversation from the other person leads to the subject being further discussed. But at all times I make sure they know that I do not condemn them nor seek to change them, (I leave that to the Holy Spirit), I believe that we teach others by the example of our own lives, as Christ has taught us to do. Be ever ready to help them in all things that they ask of you if you are able. Be tolerant of them and their views and way of life. Unless of course when what they are doing is detrimental to others, in which case I strive to explain to them that what they are doing is harming others. There is much more that I could say, but will leave it there for now.

Maranatha

 

[glorydaz]

After reading all these posts, I have no doubt about why people choose to be atheists. A simple question at the start has descended into semantics and opinions ect. Where is the love for each other? Most people who believe themselves to be Christians, religious people, people in denominations, and most other believers seem to fall into this debating and arguing. Yes, this is a forum and discussing and debating and just chatting and fellowshipping together is all a part of forums. But in a lot of cases and on a lot of forums I see the same thing. I very rarely see tolerance and acceptance of another person's viewpoint and ideals. Yes, I do know that I will probably get 'jumped' on for these comments. That is the way of things.

As for the original poster of this thread and his question/post...
If someone says to me in general conversation that they are an atheist, I usually say that I am a Christian and leave things there, unless the conversation from the other person leads to the subject being further discussed. But at all times I make sure they know that I do not condemn them nor seek to change them, (I leave that to the Holy Spirit), I believe that we teach others by the example of our own lives, as Christ has taught us to do. Be ever ready to help them in all things that they ask of you if you are able. Be tolerant of them and their views and way of life. Unless of course when what they are doing is detrimental to others, in which case I strive to explain to them that what they are doing is harming others. There is much more that I could say, but will leave it there for now.

Maranatha

Yes, I suppose we should be more politically correct...wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

On the other hand, a good dose of hellfire and damnation is better than a stroke and a pat allowing people to go on their merry way as if their eternal soul was not in jeopardy. I agree, our witness is very important, but when someone asks, perhaps the Lord is calling them to repentance. Repentance was a message that worked very well for John the Baptist. He didn't molly-coddle the sinners. I think the church has lost it's fire, and the days are drawing short.