What do you say to an atheist?

[anasazi avatar]

Yes, I suppose we should be more politically correct...wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

On the other hand, a good dose of hellfire and damnation is better than a stroke and a pat allowing people to go on their merry way as if their eternal soul was not in jeopardy. I agree, our witness is very important, but when someone asks, perhaps the Lord is calling them to repentance. Repentance was a message that worked very well for John the Baptist. He didn't molly-coddle the sinners. I think the church has lost it's fire, and the days are drawing short.

Thank you for your input. Yes I agree. The fire does seem to be lost these days. But my last post was really aimed at the infighting and bickering that Christians seem to indulge in more and more. If we let the Holy Spirit hold sway in our lives I am sure that the best way of reaching out to others, and the timing of that reaching out, would be perfectly done to maximum effect. As the Bible says..."My Word shall not return to Me void".
I do not whole heartedly agree with this 'political correctness' of today. Love and kindness is the way of Christ. If anyone desires to not believe and choose the ways of the world, then forcing the Bible on them will not achieve very much at all, I am thinking.

Maranatha

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, I suppose we should be more politically correct...wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

On the other hand, a good dose of hellfire and damnation is better than a stroke and a pat allowing people to go on their merry way as if their eternal soul was not in jeopardy. I agree, our witness is very important, but when someone asks, perhaps the Lord is calling them to repentance. Repentance was a message that worked very well for John the Baptist. He didn't molly-coddle the sinners. I think the church has lost it's fire, and the days are drawing short.

Thank you for your input. Yes I agree. The fire does seem to be lost these days. But my last post was really aimed at the infighting and bickering that Christians seem to indulge in more and more. If we let the Holy Spirit hold sway in our lives I am sure that the best way of reaching out to others, and the timing of that reaching out, would be perfectly done to maximum effect. As the Bible says..."My Word shall not return to Me void".
I do not whole heartedly agree with this 'political correctness' of today. Love and kindness is the way of Christ. If anyone desires to not believe and choose the ways of the world, then forcing the Bible on them will not achieve very much at all, I am thinking.

Maranatha

Very true. Sometimes our flesh gets ahead of our message.
We should always speak the truth with love. :nod

 

[Nick]

After reading all these posts, I have no doubt about why people choose to be atheists. A simple question at the start has descended into semantics and opinions ect. Where is the love for each other? Most people who believe themselves to be Christians, religious people, people in denominations, and most other believers seem to fall into this debating and arguing. Yes, this is a forum and discussing and debating and just chatting and fellowshipping together is all a part of forums. But in a lot of cases and on a lot of forums I see the same thing. I very rarely see tolerance and acceptance of another person's viewpoint and ideals. Yes, I do know that I will probably get 'jumped' on for these comments. That is the way of things.

As for the original poster of this thread and his question/post...
If someone says to me in general conversation that they are an atheist, I usually say that I am a Christian and leave things there, unless the conversation from the other person leads to the subject being further discussed. But at all times I make sure they know that I do not condemn them nor seek to change them, (I leave that to the Holy Spirit), I believe that we teach others by the example of our own lives, as Christ has taught us to do. Be ever ready to help them in all things that they ask of you if you are able. Be tolerant of them and their views and way of life. Unless of course when what they are doing is detrimental to others, in which case I strive to explain to them that what they are doing is harming others. There is much more that I could say, but will leave it there for now.

Maranatha

Yes, I suppose we should be more politically correct...wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

On the other hand, a good dose of hellfire and damnation is better than a stroke and a pat allowing people to go on their merry way as if their eternal soul was not in jeopardy. I agree, our witness is very important, but when someone asks, perhaps the Lord is calling them to repentance. Repentance was a message that worked very well for John the Baptist. He didn't molly-coddle the sinners. I think the church has lost it's fire, and the days are drawing short.

I agree - let's call a spade a spade.

However, some tact is needed here. We needt trusts God that the Holy Spirit be working in us, so that we may take hold of every opportunity, but that doesn't mean bible-bashing. Actions do often speak louder than words. But all done in Love.

 

[Physicist]

my concerns

After reading all these posts, I have no doubt about why people choose to be atheists. A simple question at the start has descended into semantics and opinions ect. Where is the love for each other? Most people who believe themselves to be Christians, religious people, people in denominations, and most other believers seem to fall into this debating and arguing. Yes, this is a forum and discussing and debating and just chatting and fellowshipping together is all a part of forums. But in a lot of cases and on a lot of forums I see the same thing. I very rarely see tolerance and acceptance of another person's viewpoint and ideals. Yes, I do know that I will probably get 'jumped' on for these comments. That is the way of things.

As for the original poster of this thread and his question/post...
If someone says to me in general conversation that they are an atheist, I usually say that I am a Christian and leave things there, unless the conversation from the other person leads to the subject being further discussed. But at all times I make sure they know that I do not condemn them nor seek to change them, (I leave that to the Holy Spirit), I believe that we teach others by the example of our own lives, as Christ has taught us to do. Be ever ready to help them in all things that they ask of you if you are able. Be tolerant of them and their views and way of life. Unless of course when what they are doing is detrimental to others, in which case I strive to explain to them that what they are doing is harming others. There is much more that I could say, but will leave it there for now.

Maranatha

Marantha,

Thank you for your comments. My concern with some of the early posts is that some of the posters were equating non-believers as sinful(i.e. bad) people with no or low morals. First, such conclusions cannot be supported by the evidence. Second, I think it is highly dangerous to consider outsiders as somehow less than insiders. Such intolerance has been exploited in the past by rulers who were indeed evil. I believe that it matters little whether a person is Christian, atheist, pantheist(where I would put myself), Muslim or Wikkan. What matters is their actual behavior.

Best Regards,

Physicist

 

[Drew]

Re: Facts versus opinions.

Atheists believe that virtue is its own reward, Statistics show that, at least in America, they exhibit ethical behavior equivalent or better than believers.

Your argument rests on a vital assumption - that those who profess to be believers are, in actual fact, believers. This is a very shaky assumption indeed.

You may well question how I would draw the "true believer" vs "professed believer but not true believer" distinction. I am prepared to deal with this, if you like. I politely suggest that you think carefully before suggesting that I am guilty of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy (if you were thinking along that line).

 

[DarcyLu]

After reading all these posts, I have no doubt about why people choose to be atheists. A simple question at the start has descended into semantics and opinions ect. Where is the love for each other? Most people who believe themselves to be Christians, religious people, people in denominations, and most other believers seem to fall into this debating and arguing. Yes, this is a forum and discussing and debating and just chatting and fellowshipping together is all a part of forums. But in a lot of cases and on a lot of forums I see the same thing. I very rarely see tolerance and acceptance of another person's viewpoint and ideals. Yes, I do know that I will probably get 'jumped' on for these comments. That is the way of things.

Maranatha

hi Maranatha,
i agree we should speak the truth in love and i am guilty of not doing this sometimes, however i am not sure how calm Jesus would be if someone went up to Him and said - Hey, your Father's Word is fallacy and myth.
using the example of the money changers in His Father's House, Jesus became extremely angry and upturned tables, so how much more angrier would He be speaking of His Word as myth?
i think we are too tolerant of people speaking against the Word of God, we are too patient, Jesus rebuked people and perhaps instead of protraying the "feel good religion" our society has become to treasure, we should be angry and intolerant of people speaking so disrpectful of His Word. this is not just a belief we share, it is our life! it is who we are and Who we will manifest.

 

[Physicist]

Re: Facts versus opinions.

Atheists believe that virtue is its own reward, Statistics show that, at least in America, they exhibit ethical behavior equivalent or better than believers.

Your argument rests on a vital assumption - that those who profess to be believers are, in actual fact, believers. This is a very shaky assumption indeed.

You may well question how I would draw the "true believer" vs "professed believer but not true believer" distinction. I am prepared to deal with this, if you like. I politely suggest that you think carefully before suggesting that I am guilty of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy (if you were thinking along that line).

It certainly sounds like the 'no true Scotsman' argument.

 

[logical bob]

It sounds like a prime example of the "no true Scotsman" and you should definitely explain why it isn't.

Physicist has made some specific claims in this thread. He said that rates of divorce and alcohol abuse are higher amongst those who profess Christianity than amongst atheists. He also said that people with a higher income and level of education have lower rates of divorce and alcohol abuse and are more likely to be atheists.

The thing about these claims is that it's clear what counts as evidence for and against them and anyone can asses that evidence. What evidence can be produced for or against your claim that a true believer is more ethical than an atheist? If it's not susceptible to evidence then it's a very different kind of claim to the ones Physicist made. We need to distinguish between faith and fact.

 

[JudyB]

I hope you find this article helpful in witnessing to atheists.

http://www.creationism.org/articles/AtheistFriends.htm

 

[Physicist]

I hope you find this article helpful in witnessing to atheists.

http://www.creationism.org/articles/AtheistFriends.htm

Judy,

Since we are doing recommendations, I would recommend the new book, 50 reasons why people believe in God(s). In it the author shows the fallacy inherent in the argument in the link you cite. The intelligent people that Mr Abrahamson refers to don't reject YHWH because of some misguided arrogance or a failure to appreciate the scope of the Universe. They do so because their assessment of the evidence argues against his existence. Why do you think the Bible has any more claim to be God's word than the Quran or Book of Mormon? This is where the discussion should be, with facts, not subjective faith-based feelings. Faith-based feelings led to the Inquisition and 9/11.

Nor are people who are literate in science going to be swayed by the nonsense of Hovind. Young earth Creationism essentially denies all of 20th and 21st century science. The fact that this computer works is strong evidence for science and against YEC.

Best Regards,

Physicist

 

[AAA]

Physicist:

I suspect that you are a Naturalistic Pantheist (aka Monist Physicalist).

If I am correct about that, why do you bother? Isn't equating "god" with "nature" just confusing what is meant by "nature"?

Best,
AAA

PS. I don't think my question is off topic, since this is what I would say to a pantheist, and the type of pantheism described above would, in my opinion, qualify as atheism to most Christians.

 

[Physicist]

Physicist:

I suspect that you are a Naturalistic Pantheist (aka Monist Physicalist).

If I am correct about that, why do you bother? Isn't equating "god" with "nature" just confusing what is meant by "nature"?

Best,
AAA

PS. I don't think my question is off topic, since this is what I would say to a pantheist, and the type of pantheism described above would, in my opinion, qualify as atheism to most Christians.

Perhaps for some Young earth creationists, anybody who doesn't think that every word in the Bible (KJV) is literally true is an atheist. I am not particularly concerned if someone classifies their beliefs as Christian, Buddhist, Naturalist, atheist, or Deist. In general, I find a lot of common ground between thoughtful people from all backgrounds. What worries me is people who claim to have some special communication with a Deity. My observation is that such people are wrong and sometimes dangerous.

 

[freeway]

What do I say to an atheist? usually HI! :D

 

[elijah23]

I don't say anything, instead I treat them with the same love and respect I treat everyone with. Many times actions speak louder than words.

Sometimes, though, they announce they are atheists, as if expecting a reaction from us. How should we react?

 

[AAA]

Physicist:

I suspect that you are a Naturalistic Pantheist (aka Monist Physicalist).

If I am correct about that, why do you bother? Isn't equating "god" with "nature" just confusing what is meant by those words?

Best,
AAA

PS. I don't think my question is off topic, since this is what I would say to a pantheist, and the type of pantheism described above would, in my opinion, qualify as atheism to most Christians.

Perhaps for some Young earth creationists, anybody who doesn't think that every word in the Bible (KJV) is literally true is an atheist. I am not particularly concerned if someone classifies their beliefs as Christian, Buddhist, Naturalist, atheist, or Deist. In general, I find a lot of common ground between thoughtful people from all backgrounds. What worries me is people who claim to have some special communication with a Deity. My observation is that such people are wrong and sometimes dangerous.

I'm afraid that doesn't answer my question: Isn't equating "god" with "nature" just confusing what is meant by those 2 words?

Why not call a spade a spade? I mean, when it comes to just about everybody's definition of god that means anything that the word god might mean, you're an atheist.

I'm an atheist. I could call myself a peanut butter theist, and say that god is peanut butter. Isn't that somewhat analogous to what you're doing by calling yourself a pantheist? And isn't that just ridiculous?

 

[Physicist]

Physicist:

I suspect that you are a Naturalistic Pantheist (aka Monist Physicalist).

If I am correct about that, why do you bother? Isn't equating "god" with "nature" just confusing what is meant by those words?

Best,
AAA

PS. I don't think my question is off topic, since this is what I would say to a pantheist, and the type of pantheism described above would, in my opinion, qualify as atheism to most Christians.

Perhaps for some Young earth creationists, anybody who doesn't think that every word in the Bible (KJV) is literally true is an atheist. I am not particularly concerned if someone classifies their beliefs as Christian, Buddhist, Naturalist, atheist, or Deist. In general, I find a lot of common ground between thoughtful people from all backgrounds. What worries me is people who claim to have some special communication with a Deity. My observation is that such people are wrong and sometimes dangerous.

I'm afraid that doesn't answer my question: Isn't equating "god" with "nature" just confusing what is meant by those 2 words?

Why not call a spade a spade? I mean, when it comes to just about everybody's definition of god that means anything that the word god might mean, you're an atheist.

I'm an atheist. I could call myself a peanut butter theist, and say that god is peanut butter. Isn't that somewhat analogous to what you're doing by calling yourself a pantheist? And isn't that just ridiculous?

I didn't realize that you were such a fan of peanut butter.

Many posters, including apparently you, in this forum, would classify me as an atheist. I would put my beliefs closer to Einstein's

 

[Hoppynz]

"Have you read much of the Bible, Bob? "


If someone is a rationalist, nothing will make them more of an athiest than reading the entire bible.

 

[elijah23]

"Have you read much of the Bible, Bob? "


If someone is a rationalist, nothing will make them more of an athiest than reading the entire bible.

Why?

 

[Nick]

"Have you read much of the Bible, Bob? "


If someone is a rationalist, nothing will make them more of an athiest than reading the entire bible.

Except God, who opens people's hearts. There have been some athiests who have read the entire Bible in order to compose a book disproving God and Christianity. Some of them are now devout Christians.

 

[Tatty]

Honestly I feel pity for anyone who genuinely is an atheist! -it's like they are "dead" already and I would not wish anyone to live in a world how they envision it! That is my honest opinion. Do I say that to an atheist? -if he'd asked for my honest opinion yes.
Regards.
Anna