Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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I see in Genesis that the Lord said that He finished His work that He began and He rested from His work of creating the heavens and the earth and He sanctified it. No mention of this day being a sabbath for man.Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which YHWH hath said, Tomorrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto YHWH: ...How could the next day be the holy Sabbath if it was not yet commanded from Mt. Sinai? Because it already existed from day 7 of the creation week. You don't need to see the Sabbath being observed before Ex 16 to know it was. Yeshua's words are all we need;
"The Sabbath was made for man, ..." It was made for all men, not just men that lived after Ex 16 and not just for Jews, but all mankind. It was Yahweh's blessing to all of His new creatures.
In Deu 5:15, an additional purpose was stated for giving the Sabbath to Israel. The primary reason was so they could be blessed with a physical rest from their labors.
Don't mean to butt in Deborah, Jocor write well and so do you...it's an interesting read...
Ge 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested "SHABBATH" on the seventh day
The Hebrew word "rest" exists in Genesis....
Its in the verb sense because the noun sense is not yet complete...the Sabbath (rest as a noun) would not be completed until the sun sets, and Genesis account does not do this because Creation is 7 days, not 8 days.
A Word spelt the same is the same regardless of verb or noun form, however slight their meanings....
For example
He went to love her with more of his love.
Is love here written twice the same word, same meaning? or different words ?
Shalom
I would say that the Law of YHVH is all the eternal moral commandments that are given throughout beginning to end and span all covenants.The Law of YHVH and the Law of Moses are not the same things.
The Law of YHVH and the Law of Moses are not the same things.
I see in Genesis that the Lord said that He finished His work that He began and He rested from His work of creating the heavens and the earth and He sanctified it. No mention of this day being a sabbath for man.
Ex. 16 is a first mention of a set ritual sabbath day of any kind.
Jews say this is two interrelated commands. 'To remember' zachor and 'to observe' shamor.
To Christians I only know of one 'remember and observe' ritual command given to us.
Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
I don't believe the 7th day sabbath was 'changed' to another day or another day given. The sabbath day is not mentioned past Acts 18, except Col. 2:16 sayings sabbaths, and each mention is about the 7th day sabbath.
Col 2:16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body is of the Christ;
However, Paul does address this issue I think of sacred days...
Rom 14:4 Thou--who art thou that art judging another's domestic? to his own master he doth stand or fall; and he shall be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One doth judge one day above another, and another doth judge every day alike ; let each in his own mind be fully assured.
It appears to me that Paul had no problem with Jews and proselytes to Judaism who had become believers in the Messiah continuing in participating in the holy days. What he did have a problem with, were people, who told the new converts to Christianity that they MUST follow the Law of Moses, per Colossians and Romans for just two.The Jewish converts would have probably continued esteeming these days whereas the Gentile converts would probably not, especially since they were not commanded by Yahweh to be kept.
What you are saying, is that the 7th day sabbath is commanded, so let's keep it straight about what sabbath day we are talking about seeing we have Christians who believe a different sabbath day, they believe it is the 1st day.However, all men knew the Sabbath was commanded and so there was no question about its observance as seen in such verses as Acts 18:4 and Acts 13:42-44; 14:1.
It appears to me that Paul had no problem with Jews and proselytes to Judaism who had become believers in the Messiah continuing in participating in the holy days. What he did have a problem with, were people, who told the new converts to Christianity that they MUST follow the Law of Moses, per Colossians and Romans for just two.
Not just in feasts and sabbaths but in what they could eat, touch, etc.
What you are saying, is that the 7th day sabbath is commanded, so let's keep it straight about what sabbath day we are talking about seeing we have Christians who believe a different sabbath day, they believe it is the 1st day.
Neither of us believe that it was changed to the 1st day but most Christians will tell you it was.
Act 18:4 and he was reasoning in the synagogue every sabbath, persuading both Jews and Greeks.
Act 18:5 And when both Silas and Timotheus came down from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the Spirit, testifying fully to the Jews Jesus the Christ;
Act 18:6 and on their resisting and speaking evil, having shaken his garments, he said unto them, `Your blood is upon your head--I am clean; henceforth to the nations I will go on.'
Was Paul in the synagogue to worship and teach the Law of Moses? No, he was there to persuade the Jews and Greek proselytes, testifying about the Messiah. They rejected the gospel and him and so he left and said he would go to the unbelieving gentile nations.
Act 13:5 and having come unto Salamis, they declared the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews, and they had also John as a ministrant;
......
What word of God were they declaring in the synagogue to the Jews? Were they there to worship and study the Law of Moses? I don't believe so seeing in the next verses we hear them say "word of God" being declared to another Jew who would have already known the Law of Moses and to a gentile that was with him who would not have known the Law of Moses but could have asked a any Jew.
Act 13:6 and having gone through the island unto Paphos, they found a certain magian, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name is Bar-Jesus;
Act 13:7 who was with the proconsul Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man; this one having called for Barnabas and Saul, did desire to hear the word of God,
Now we again see Paul in the synagogue on the 7th day sabbath. After readings from the law and the prophets, Paul speaks. It is quite along so I won't give the history lesson that he uses to make his points.
Act 13:14 and they having gone through from Perga, came to Antioch of Pisidia, and having gone into the synagogue on the sabbath-day, they sat down,
Act 13:15 and after the reading of the law and of the prophets, the chief men of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, `Men, brethren, if there be a word in you of exhortation unto the people--say on.'
Act 13:16 And Paul having risen, and having beckoned with the hand, said, `Men, Israelites, and those fearing God, hearken:..........
Those that were there in the synagogue were Jews and proselytes to Judaism. He tells them that the one they had judged, the Messiah, had fulfilled the prophets that they were reading every 7th day sabbath. He was proclaiming the gospel to them.
Act 13:26 `Men, brethren, sons of the race of Abraham, and those among you fearing God, to you was the word of this salvation sent,
Act 13:27 for those dwelling in Jerusalem, and their chiefs, this one not having known, also the voices of the prophets, which every sabbath are being read--having judged him --did fulfil, ......
Act 13:32 `And we to you do proclaim good news--that the promise made unto the fathers,........
The synagogue gathering is dismissed, Paul leaves and Jews and proselytes follow him and the gentile nations ask to hear ''the word of God" the "good news". The following 7th day sabbath the people of the city gather, not in the synagogue, to hear the "good news". The Jews aren't happy and contradict him and he said that he had to first bring "the word of God", "the good news", to them before going to the gentile nations, which he had done the previous sabbath.
Act 13:42 And having gone forth out of the synagogue of the Jews, the nations were calling upon them that on the next sabbath these sayings may be spoken to them,
Act 13:43 and the synagogue having been dismissed, many of the Jews and of the devout proselytes did follow Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were persuading them to remain in the grace of God.
Act 13:44 And on the coming sabbath, almost all the city was gathered together to hear the word of God,
Act 13:45 and the Jews having seen the multitudes, were filled with zeal, and did contradict the things spoken by Paul--contradicting and speaking evil.
Act 13:46 And speaking boldly, Paul and Barnabas said, `To you it was necessary that first the word of God be spoken, and seeing ye do thrust it away, and do not judge yourselves worthy of the life age-during, lo, we do turn to the nations;....
So my question to you is this... Was Paul in sin during the 14 yrs. that he never went to Jerusalem for the 3 festivals each year, as commanded in the Law of Moses? Do you think he repented for not attending the Passover, Feast of Weeks, and Tabernacles feasts?
I can't address this first portion of your post in this response or it will be way...to long. But I well in second post.
I really enjoy studying with you, you are gracious. :nod
I agree He would have said "adam" seeing that is the word that means 'mankind' He wouldn't have had a choice in using a different word.You do not have to see "man" there anymore than you have to see "Yeshua" in Ex 12:6. Yeshua himself said that the Sabbath was "made" for man. "Made" is from the Greek "ginomai" meaning "cause to be" or "come into being". When did the Sabbath come into being? On the 7th day of the creation week (Ex 20:11). Therefore, Yeshua is saying, "The Sabbath came into being for man". If Yeshua said that to the Pharisees, he most likely said it in Hebrew or Aramaic in which case he would have said, "The Sabbath came into being for adam."
Yes, and without the OT we would not understand many of the things said in the NT. The OT gives us a physical picture of the spiritual things in the NT. We won't understand why Paul brought up things like foods and drink, etc.Yahweh gave us a Bible that contains the OT as well. The NT does not contain the majority of what Yeshua did and taught. Just because the NT uses "remember" and "do" for the bread and cup does not negate all the rest of the remember and observes found throughout Scripture.
At the time Paul was preaching the old covenant was still fading away. Once the temple and Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD, the old covenant became fully obsolete. The Jewish people were dispersed. The Jewish and Gentile Christian fled Jerusalem. The reality came, that the Mosaic economy, the shadow of things to come, was over, the substance is the risen Messiah.The Colossians were keeping the Sabbath and Feasts. Paul was warning them to not allow people outside the Body of Messiah to tell them how to keep their holy days. As of Paul's writing, the reality of those shadows was yet in his future. A shadow cannot be fulfilled until the reality comes.
The word alike isn't needed to understand the verse but it does make the translation grammatically correct in English.First, the word "alike" is in italics because it is not in the Greek. There is nothing wrong with esteeming every day, after all, Yahweh made them all. If we choose to worship Him seven days a week, so be it and halleluyah!
However, that does not change the fact that as we worship Him every day we must also rest from labor on one day, the Sabbath. It is a mistake to read the Sabbath into this verse. Nowhere is the Sabbath mentioned. Nor can we read any of Yahweh's annual sabbaths or feast days into this verse. There were many other "days" that the Jews highly esteemed besides the Sabbath and feasts. For example, most Jews at that time fasted twice a week (Luke 18:12 and Talmudic writings). The Jews also kept fast days throughout the year as mentioned in Zech 8:19. Then there was the Feast of Purim (Esther 9:28), and the Feast of Dedication or Hanukkah (John 10:22).
The reality came, that the Mosaic economy, the shadow of things to come, was over, the substance is the risen Messiah.
The word alike isn't needed to understand the verse but it does make the translation grammatically correct in English.
We agree with Paul, it's acceptable to esteem every day and no day above another.
However, he also said to come together in fellowship and I believe that is very important for the Body and for the body.
I'm confused jacor, if you are saying the correct day to worship is on the seventh day, then why did the disciples and Paul teach it was on the 8th, or first day of the week?
Jn 20:19, 25, Acts 20:7, Rev 1:10
And why do the historical accounts of Justin Martyr (2nd century) and Tertullian (2nd-3rd century) record the church met on the first day of the week at that time?
If I'm not mistaken the Bible says both. It refers to 'things to come' in Colossians, and to the 'things already here' in Hebrews.We are not told the “Mosaic economy” was a shadow. We are told it contained some shadows like sacrifices, feasts, etc. Paul made it perfectly clear that the realities of the shadows of the Sabbaths and feast had not yet come because he they “are a shadow of thing to come.” He does not say they “were shadows of things that have come.” He wrote those words long after Yeshua had come and gone.
Psa 19:7-8 The law of YHWH is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony (Ten Commandments) of YHWH is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of YHWH are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of YHWH is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 78:5-7 For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children: That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children: That they might set their hope in Elohim, and not forget the works of El, but keep his commandments:
Psa 119:72 The law of thy mouth is better unto me than thousands of gold and silver.
Psa 119:97 O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
Psa 119:98-99 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me. I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.
Psa 119:151 Thou art near, O YHWH; and all thy commandments are truth.
Psa 119:152 Concerning thy testimonies (Ten Commandments), I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.
Psa_119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O YHWH; and thy law is my delight.
Isa_5:24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of YHWH of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
Ezekiel 36:26,27 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith YHWH; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Mat 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Psalm 119:126 It is time for thee, Yahweh, to work: for they have made void thy law.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom_7:25 I thank God through Yeshua Messiah our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Is this how you view the Law of YHWH/God? Do you serve it with your mind or does your flesh refuse to be subject to it? Have you made the Law void through your faith or is it firmly established in your life? Do you love the Law of YHWH? Is it your delight or have you cast it away from you? Do you break the Law of YHWH and teach others to do the same or do you keep it? If you believe the Law is abolished, I hope you will reconsider your understanding of the Law of YHWH and begin to show your love for YHWH in the way He desires by keeping His laws.
If I'm not mistaken the Bible says both. It refers to 'things to come' in Colossians, and to the 'things already here' in Hebrews.
After his conversion, he continued to worship Yahweh every Sabbath,
What did the Children of Israel "transgress" before the law of Moses was added?
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19