What God Has Not Given Us

[lesjude]

God allows the medical system for the hardness of Christians' hearts.


Matthew 19:4-8

New King James Version (NKJV)

4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made[a] them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’[b] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?[c] 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.â€
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?â€
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
The Bible says this about believers:


Ephesians 5:30

New King James Version (NKJV)

30 For we are members of His body,[a] of His flesh and of His bones.

Jesus is our betrothed and we His. In Jewish custom this was as a marriage without consummation. Would Jesus want His one flesh bride to go to an unregenerate system be stripped naked, cut up and given drugs that all harm the human body, when He died a horrible death to provide all the healing she would ever need by trusting her husband alone?
Jesus allows it for the hardness of Christians' hearts just as divorce was allowed in the OT for any reason.
Does anyone believe the bride will have a hard heart?



Statistics prove prescription drugs are 16,400% more deadly than ... <img style="padding:0px;border:medium none;text-decoration:none;cursor:pointer;width:15px;height:15px;" id="yiv2125228645sbresult_9" class="yiv2125228645l yiv2125228645sb-l">


www.naturalnews.com/009278
Statistics prove prescription drugs are 16,400% more deadly than terrorists ... According to the groundbreaking 2003 medical report Death by Medicine, by Drs. Gary Null ..




In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA <img style="padding:0px;border:medium none;text-decoration:none;cursor:pointer;width:15px;height:15px;" id="yiv2125228645sbresult_2" class="yiv2125228645l yiv2125228645sb-l">


www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/11856
'In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA' Please note that we publish your name, but we do not publish your email address.

 

[Hitch]

Anyone in your group wear glasses Les?

 

[lesjude]

Anyone in your group wear glasses Les?

Yes, one. There are no rules. The person is believing for healing. Only The Holy Spirit can show a believer how to act their faith.

 

[Hitch]

Its a safe bet that some are taking meds too.

 

[lesjude]

Its a safe bet that some are taking meds too.

No one is.

 

[Hitch]

No one is.

Yeah right. And you know this because there are no rules and therefore no reason to check on anyone...

 

[lesjude]

Yeah right. And you know this because there are no rules and therefore no reason to check on anyone...

No one has to be told to stop taking poison when they realize healing is in the atonement.

 

[westtexas]

Ephesians 5:30

New King James Version (NKJV)

30 For we are members of His body,[a] of His flesh and of His bones.

Jesus is our betrothed and we His. In Jewish custom this was as a marriage without consummation. Would Jesus want His one flesh bride to go to an unregenerate system be stripped naked, cut up and given drugs that all harm the human body, when He died a horrible death to provide all the healing she would ever need by trusting her husband alone?
Jesus allows it for the hardness of Christians' hearts just as divorce was allowed in the OT for any reason.
Does anyone believe the bride will have a hard heart?

Except for your own private interpretation you haven't shown anything yet. You, personally, don't feel Jesus would have taken drugs for medical reasons and that's fair enough. But have you got anything scriptural to support your conclusions?
Westtexas

 

[lesjude]

Except for your own private interpretation you haven't shown anything yet. You, personally, don't feel Jesus would have taken drugs for medical reasons and that's fair enough. But have you got anything scriptural to support your conclusions?
Westtexas

Please see my thread on "The Christian and the Legal Drug Cult(ure)". Jesus already knew the nature of drugs which is what any knowledgeable medical professional will tell you if they are honest. Drugs have not changed, just more of them and more dangerous.
Jesus never used drugs to heal, nor did anyone else in scripture. Jesus did not leave unsaved people without His healing power either. Please see my thread on "So You Want To Love People Like Jesus Did" based on Mark 16:17-18, Matthew 10:7-8, and John 14:12.
Why would any believer take poison when Jesus provided healing in the atonement? I am not sure why this is an issue. When I got born again and saw these things in scripture I wanted them for myself, family and others, not argue and fight about it. If you have read my "Testimony/Normal Christianity" you will see Jesus has always been faithful.

 

[westtexas]

Please see my thread on "The Christian and the Legal Drug Cult(ure)". Jesus already knew the nature of drugs which is what any knowledgeable medical professional will tell you if they are honest. Drugs have not changed, just more of them and more dangerous.
Jesus never used drugs to heal, nor did anyone else in scripture. Jesus did not leave unsaved people without His healing power either. Please see my thread on "So You Want To Love People Like Jesus Did" based on Mark 16:17-18, Matthew 10:7-8, and John 14:12.
Why would any believer take poison when Jesus provided healing in the atonement? I am not sure why this is an issue. When I got born again and saw these things in scripture I wanted them for myself, family and others, not argue and fight about it. If you have read my "Testimony/Normal Christianity" you will see Jesus has always been faithful.

I've read your threads and you still haven't addressed the question as to why your denomination (not sure which you claim but the list is small) believes that physicians and drugs for medical reasons are unscriptural. I'd like to see your scriptures that support this point of view and then we can discuss them. I'll disagree with you but I promise to disagree respectfully.:nod

Or point me to a thread and post # if you feel it's already been answered and I'll bring the quote to this thread.

Westtexas

 

[reba]

Les what do you do if your kid breaks his arm? Do you allow bandaids?

1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

I have yet to find the scriptures telling Luke to stop practicing his profession.

God is thee Creator. He created the tree the chemo drug was made from that helped save my life...I thank God for His creation.

Any hospitals in your area?

 

[lesjude]

I've read your threads and you still haven't addressed the question as to why your denomination (not sure which you claim but the list is small) believes that physicians and drugs for medical reasons are unscriptural. I'd like to see your scriptures that support this point of view and then we can discuss them. I'll disagree with you but I promise to disagree respectfully.:nod

Or point me to a thread and post # if you feel it's already been answered and I'll bring the quote to this thread.

Westtexas

You have read the threads and still do not understand then I cannot give you any more information.
We belong to no denomination and never have been in any assembly but a house church.
Unless you have the experiences in Acts 19:1-6 and are born again nothing I can say will convince you of anything, let alone to trust Jesus alone for health and healing. Here are some scriptures if you wish: Isaiah 53:4-5 with Matthew 8:15-16, Psalm 103:1-5, James 5:14-15, Exodus 15:26, James 1:17-18. As I have said if one sees the truth of these no one will have to tell you to stop doing drugs.
We have the testimony of 34 years of our lives and the scripture. Others we know personally have a similar testimony. If that does not persuade you to at least seek out what I am saying nothing more I can say ever will.

 

[Milk-Drops]

I guess the invention/innovation of both vaccines and penicillin / antibiotics are just lies as well. Someone should tell all those that died of the Black Plague that its not that there wasn't any medicine or vaccinations, it was because they didn't seek God's healing then.

 

[Free]

God allows the medical system for the hardness of Christians' hearts.


Matthew 19:4-8

New King James Version (NKJV)

4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made[a] them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’[b] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?[c] 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.â€
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?â€
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
The Bible says this about believers:


Ephesians 5:30

New King James Version (NKJV)

30 For we are members of His body,[a] of His flesh and of His bones.

Jesus is our betrothed and we His. In Jewish custom this was as a marriage without consummation. Would Jesus want His one flesh bride to go to an unregenerate system be stripped naked, cut up and given drugs that all harm the human body, when He died a horrible death to provide all the healing she would ever need by trusting her husband alone?
Jesus allows it for the hardness of Christians' hearts just as divorce was allowed in the OT for any reason.
Does anyone believe the bride will have a hard heart?



Statistics prove prescription drugs are 16,400% more deadly than ... <img style="padding:0px;border:medium none;text-decoration:none;cursor:pointer;width:15px;height:15px;" id="yiv2125228645sbresult_9" class="yiv2125228645l yiv2125228645sb-l">


www.naturalnews.com/009278
Statistics prove prescription drugs are 16,400% more deadly than terrorists ... According to the groundbreaking 2003 medical report Death by Medicine, by Drs. Gary Null ..




In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA <img style="padding:0px;border:medium none;text-decoration:none;cursor:pointer;width:15px;height:15px;" id="yiv2125228645sbresult_2" class="yiv2125228645l yiv2125228645sb-l">


www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/11856
'In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA' Please note that we publish your name, but we do not publish your email address.

Not only is there no biblical basis for your assertions, God created everything good and that includes the multitude of plants that have medicinal qualities. Unless you want to argue that the fall resulted in medicinal plants or that Satan created them, without any biblical basis whatsoever, you have no case here.

God gave us medicine and the medical system for our benefit. We should never say God is only for miraculous healing and against medicine. It is not only unbiblical, it is dangerous.

 

[Free]

You have read the threads and still do not understand then I cannot give you any more information.
We belong to no denomination and never have been in any assembly but a house church.

And herein lies the problem. This is actually a perfect example that supports previous arguments I have made against the "house church only" and "non-denominational" positions.

 

[Drew]

God allows the medical system for the hardness of Christians' hearts.


Matthew 19:4-8

New King James Version (NKJV)

4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made[a] them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’[b] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?[c] 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.â€
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?â€
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

The text you cite here in no way supports your assertion that "God allows the medical system for the hardness of Christians' hearts".

This text is about divorce, not medical therapy. And, in any event, it is part of the Law of Moses, which is no longer in force.

Medical technology constitutes a major component of God's intended set of modes of healing disease.

 

[Drew]

Jesus never used drugs to heal, nor did anyone else in scripture.

Hardly a valid argument against the use of drugs for therapeutic reasons.

Jesus almost certainly never engaged in a lot of activities that are nevertheless activities of which He would approve.

Jesus never pursued an agenda to care for the environment (I believe). But this certainly does not mean that Jesus is against the environmental movement.

 

[Drew]

I guess the invention/innovation of both vaccines and penicillin / antibiotics are just lies as well. Someone should tell all those that died of the Black Plague that its not that there wasn't any medicine or vaccinations, it was because they didn't seek God's healing then.

I see you identify yourself as a "non-Christian". In case you don't know this, but I suspect that you do, those Christians who reject mainstream medical technology are a tiny minority.

As a Christian, I believe that medical technology is an important dimension of God's kingdom which is slowly (perhaps) yet inexorably advancing to reach one of its ultimate goals: the defeat of death.

 

[Drew]

This idea that "medical technology" is not part of God's set of intended modes for healing the world is symptomatic of a fundamental theological error - the belief that God is not at work in the "real world" to advance His purposes. Many who develop medical technology may have no idea that they are serving that noble, divine goal.

Of course, Pharoah had no idea that he was being "used" by God for a greater divine purpose. And there are many more Biblical examples of God "using" secular / non-believing agents to implement His will.

 

[westtexas]

nothing I can say will convince you of anything, let alone to trust Jesus alone for health and healing. Here are some scriptures if you wish: Isaiah 53:4-5 with Matthew 8:15-16, Psalm 103:1-5, James 5:14-15, Exodus 15:26, James 1:17-18. As I have said if one sees the truth of these no one will have to tell you to stop doing drugs.

It shouldn't be necessary for you to convince me of anything. Let scripture do it. Thus far all you have done is show some scripture in which it is necessary to try to force this scripture to fit your theology and and have shown nothing that proves that your theology agrees with scripture. Pick any of the above scriptures you have quoted and show where they say physicians and medicinal drugs are unscriptural. It's necessary for you to squeeze a square peg into a round hole.
Westtexas