What happens during the rapture, that is, when "caught up to

[shad]

What happens during the rapture, that is, when "caught up together"?

The Book of Revelation speaks of a special time when "henceforth" (Revelation 14:13) those who die in Christ do not need to "sleep" as the saints throughout the Age did (I Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:51, 52). During the secret, invisible presence of Christ--when faithful Christians die--they are immediately resurrected to be with Christ to continue their "works."

"Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth; Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors and their works do follow them."

"Caught up Together"

What was the Apostle Paul, by inspiration, really telling us?

He was teaching us that those who have fallen asleep through the Christian Age would be raised first when Christ would return from heaven. Those living at the time would not precede those who slept, but afterward would join them to the same place.

"We who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. . .Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to met the Lord in the air. . . " 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 NAS).

"Together" here means the same place in a time periodâ€â€not necessarily the same moment.

"Together" means place or location just as it does a few verses later when Paul says, "we may live together with him" (1 Thessalonians 5:10).

The place is the "air." Satan, the "god of this world," has been invisibly ruling as the "prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2). Jesus returns as a King invading Satan's domain setting up his own Kingdom.

The "dead in Christ" rise first. Afterward those saints who are "alive and remain till the coming ["presence," Gk.] of the Lord" join them. They do not need to sleep to wait for Christ to return!

Paul elsewhere explains,

"We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump..."
(1 Corinthians 15:51,52).

Thus those who were asleep are raised instantaneously upon Christ's return from heaven. But those who die in the Lord from "henceforth" â€â€when he has returnedâ€â€"rest from their labors and their works do follow" (Revelation 14:13).

One by oneâ€â€as they prove "faithful unto death" (Revelation 2:10)â€â€"in a twinkling of an eye" each will join Jesus and the brethren who preceded. They join in one place, not at one time.

"One taken. . . "

But didn't Jesus say, "one taken, and the other left" (Luke 17:36)?

If a driver of a car is a Christian, wouldn't he just be "taken"? If an airline pilot is a Christian, won't he just be "taken"?

On the contrary, a careful look at the texts reveals that the ones on the "housetop" are warned not to go inside to take their things. There is time for choices! The one in the "field" should not decide to "return back" to his house before leaving.

Furthermore, they are not being snatched away to heaven. But then, where are they going? The apostles, in fact, asked this logical question, "Where, Lord?" (Luke 17:37)

Jesus answeredâ€â€as he usually did in symbolic languageâ€â€"Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

Faithful Christians are being gathered to a spiritual feast when he returns! Some respond to the opportunity. Some do not. Jesus, who had been saying to his church through the age, "Behold, I come quickly," finally says, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him and will sup with him and he with me" (Revelation 3:11, 20).

In keeping with one of the signs of his return, Jesus said he would provide "meat in due season" (Matthew 24:45). Spiritual food.

Therefore, the "carcass" to which we as eagles are gathered could not be the Lord's fleshly body in heaven. He is spirit now (1 Corinthians 15:45). (We would not be eating his flesh in heaven anyway!)

Some would be teachers "grinding at the mill" when the Lord would return.

Some would be in the "field"â€â€in the worldâ€â€not connected with any church ("house").

Some would be uncomfortably lying in their creedbeds (Isaiah 28:20) when Jesus would return.

The test would be, Would Christians be spiritually sleeping or spiritually awake to understand that Jesus had returned as a "thief"?

Would they be investigating God's "times and seasons" in the Scriptures?

Would they understand the "signs" Jesus had given his disciples to confirm that he had returned invisibly?

If Jesus' disciples would be ready, they would feast on the truths the returned Lord would provide. They would understand he had returned!

 

[RND]

What rapture? A secret rapture?

 

[shad]

What rapture? A secret rapture?

Did you even read this post?

 

[RND]

What rapture? A secret rapture?

Did you even read this post?

Yeah, that's why I asked. The "resurrection" is different than the "rapture" or "secret rapture." Are you suggesting that life goes on another "7 years" after this "rapture?"

"Left behind?"

 

[shad]

RND,

please read agin, it is not saying anything about left behind. I don't believe in left behind.

I just posted "left behind" thread. I hope your read it.

 

[aisling-m]

I believe you have your resurrections and raptures skewed.

Rapture is believed that using Luke 34:36, Christians will be whisked away to save us from the Tribulation era (Revelations) leaving all the non-Christians behind to suffer their due punishment for straying from the truth.
However Rapture does not have enough backing, so it's only a theory.

Then after the Seven Year Tribulation (which starts with the covenant between Israel and the Anti-Christ) Jesus' Glorious Appearance occurs, with his heavenly host and those that died after Christ's death and before the end of the tribulation (so those still alive at the end of the seven years will see him ride in on clouds.) Then God eliminates those with the Mark of the Beast, and afterward brings all those left on earth, those that died through Christ, and the Old Testament saints together and judges them according to their works, throws those that still don't pass into Hell (o the lake can't remember) and then finally judges Satan the False Prophet and the Anti-Christ and tosses them into Hell. Then his thousand year reign is held until Satan is released for a time, then the White Throne judgment occurs.

When Christians die we are whisked to Heaven until said judgments occur when we get to be behind Jesus during the Glorious Appearance!

[Revelations 14:13 just says that those that die in Christ's name after the anti-christ is resurrected (The anti-christ commands all to worship his image/him ect...)

Rev 2:10 tells the church that they need not be afraid of the trials that await them in the last days, (Christians will be persecuted and killed for our faith) for Christ will reward them in Heaven.

Luke 17:34-36 - who knows? Some claim that this is Rapture. that Christians will be whisked to Heaven to spare them the tribulation which is intended for the unfaithful. The one left behind is the non-Christian while the one taken is. I am neutral on the subject, there is not enough evidence about what this is talking about no matter who you talk to pastor theologian or otherwise. It's too ambiguous.

I would like to know what verse you are quoting when you mention those on the housetop and such. I know what you speak of, but I do not know if it's in context or out.

Also in my text it Luke 17:37 reads:
"Where, Lord?" they asked Him.
He said to them, "Where the corpse is, there also the vultures will be gathered."

Rev 3:11
"I am coming quickly. Hold on to what you have so no one takes your crown."
Which pretty much states, hold onto your faith, and don't let yourself be led astray, for God's time of return is near. Basically.
Rev 3:20 pretty much restates that whoever opens the door to Christ will be saved. The dinner is really just to paint a picture, I do not think it is literal.
Matt 24:45 is also an analogy. The meat is not literal it is to paint a picture of what he meant, like the parables he used. It is not manna from God. That's sweet and tastes like milk and honey not beef.

Spiritual food is Christ's word through reading the Bible and praying regularly.

1 Cor 15:45 "So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.
I think you have your verses mixed up?

Isaiah also has a different translation then yours, so I do not find 'creedbeds' anywhere. Could you explain?]

:heart

Is there anything I've misunderstood?

 

[RND]

I believe you have your resurrections and raptures skewed.

I guess I'm not the only one that was confused by the OP.

 

[shad]

I believe that the most of prophesy is symbolism, if we don't agree on this, we will not come to the same conclusions.

 

[Paidion]

What happens during the rapture, that is, when "caught up together"?

When most people use the phrase "The Rapture", they are discussing the coming of the Lord
("presence" of the Lord, if you insist) as described in I Thessalonians 4:13-17. I would be cautious about your belief that "the most of prophesy is symbolism." As a wise older man once said, "If the literal sense makes sense, it doesn't make any sense to use any other sense."

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. I Thessalonians 4:13-15

Paul refers here to the resurrection of the saints at the time of Christ's coming. "Those who are asleep", as elsewhere in the New Testament, refers, of course, to those who are dead. God or Jesus will raise to life and immortality, first those who have died. Then He will give immortality those who are still living at Christ's coming. What follows is a further description of the same event.

Look! I tell you a secret. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality. (1 Corinthians 15:51-53)


The dead will be raised immortal, and we (who are alive when Christ returns) will be changed so that we are immortal. There will be immortality for all disciples of Christ when He returns, whether they have died, or whether they are still alive at the time.

The Book of Revelation speaks of a special time when "henceforth" (Revelation 14:13) those who die in Christ do not need to "sleep" as the saints throughout the Age did (I Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:51, 52).

The actual words are:

And I heard a voice from heaven saying, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord henceforth." "Blessed indeed," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!" (Revelation 14:13)

I am wondering where you got your idea that the passage "speaks of a special time when 'henceforth' those who die in Christ do not need to 'sleep' as the saints throughout the Age did."

"Sleep" is used frequently in the New Testament for "die". The words, "We shall not all sleep" in I Corinthians 15 are tantamount to "We shall not all die." For those who are alive at Christ's coming shall not die, but receive instantaneous immortality.

During the secret, invisible presence of Christ--

Invisible presence??? The Adventists had their "secret coming" in 1844. Jehovah's Witnesses had their "invisible presence" occurring in 1914.

This is exactly that against which Christ warns us:

Then if any one says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. Look, I have told you beforehand! So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the desert,’ do not go out; if they say, ‘Look, he is in the secret rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lighting (not "lightning) comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man. (Matthew 24:23-27)

When the lighting (of the Sun) shines from the east when it rises, to the west when it sets, everyone is fully aware of it. So shall it be when Jesus returns. Everyone will know. "Every eye shall see Him. (Revelation 1:7)

when faithful Christians die--they are immediately resurrected to be with Christ to continue their "works."

So the resurrection has already happened. That was the error of Hymenaeus and Philetus who were among the those participating in "irreverent babble". Paul warned Timothy:

But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some. (2 Timothy 2:16-18)

The resurrection of faithful saints will not happen when they die. They will be raised at the resurrection of the righteous which takes place when Christ returns. Until then, they will remain dead (or figuratively "asleep")

 

[Vic C.]

Yeah, that's why I asked. The "resurrection" is different than the "rapture" or "secret rapture." Are you suggesting that life goes on another "7 years" after this "rapture?"

"Left behind?"

Just to play Devil's advocate (maybe) what if what many call the "rapture" IS the resurrection/transformation of believers?

 

[RND]

Yeah, that's why I asked. The "resurrection" is different than the "rapture" or "secret rapture." Are you suggesting that life goes on another "7 years" after this "rapture?"

"Left behind?"

Just to play Devil's advocate (maybe) what if what many call the "rapture" IS the resurrection/transformation of believers?

Just lookin' for clarification Vic. The OP is confusing. Sorry.

 

[Cornelius]

Yeah, that's why I asked. The "resurrection" is different than the "rapture" or "secret rapture." Are you suggesting that life goes on another "7 years" after this "rapture?"

"Left behind?"

Just to play Devil's advocate (maybe) what if what many call the "rapture" IS the resurrection/transformation of believers?

LOL, that is what Scripture teaches !

Find the resurrection/transformation and you have found the "rapture" (no such word in the Bible)

 

[Cornelius]

Its actually very simple:
During the past 6000 years, God went through a few stages with humanity in the planned: Manifesting the sons of God "project" (If you would allow me the liberty of calling it that )

Now the "project" almost done, and prophesied to happen during the morning (first part) of the start of the 7th millennium or 7th day.

Next: The "At-the-moment-very-lukewarm-church" must next be cleansed. Not by a rapture, but through a tribulation. This tribulation will result in a great falling away. Why? Because those who are warming pews and are not really true followers are going to "up and run" soon. When the New Word Order starts turning up the heat on Christianity (ex: illegal to preach against homosexuality, (hate crime) punishable by imprisonment (who will still preach it ?? ) ) then those lukewarm chaff will lift up and run out. (Great falling away)

Result achieved? ::: a clean church ! (God is more than clever ! )

Now the tribulation gets on the way and we see people dying.
WHO stays alive?
Christians who have learned the rules of faith and are now using the promises of God to place food and water on their tables. (Christians without faith dies )

Result: Group gets smaller.

Tribulations gets worse : Bombs, sickness and pests. Famine, earthquakes and war.

Christians who knows how, stays alive by living in Christ , who is also the protection of Psalm 91.

More worldly Christians and unrepentant people die.

Result: Desperation sets in. Christians with little faith are looking and asking: WHY are they doing well and we are not? What have they got that we have not? (They see miracles happen through some Christians, food is multiplied, water from a rock, protection through fire and sickness ..the dead are raised by them )
(Christians with faith starts teaching faith to brothers and sisters. More survive........but still some die.)
The church are now getting VERY holy and faith is tested and proven and working. The Bride is getting to be without spot or blemish.
Then those who have not been able to overcome the flesh , gets to loose the flesh anyway, (beheaded) because no flesh can enter the Kingdom.


BUT

Those who have overcome the flesh, and learned how to have faith in the promises of God, are walking in holiness and divine protection. They are ..............1Th 4:15.......... we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.

By now its a remnant.................


But its done, God has manifested His sons. They walk in the image of their Lord and Brother.The sky opens up and Jesus comes for those who remain alive (rapture) . The graves open too and the church leaves this planet.(resurrection )

But first God has to do one final thing. Clean up. His wrath has to come and destroy those who have refused to repent. Fire, most probably nuclear, comes and wipes this planed clean.

God starts to recreate ............(but that is another section by itself )

 

[Vic C.]

Yeah, that's why I asked. The "resurrection" is different than the "rapture" or "secret rapture." Are you suggesting that life goes on another "7 years" after this "rapture?"

"Left behind?"

Just to play Devil's advocate (maybe) what if what many call the "rapture" IS the resurrection/transformation of believers?

Just lookin' for clarification Vic. The OP is confusing. Sorry.

No need to be sorry, though Cornelius gave the answer I thought I would get from you. :biglaugh

 

[RND]

No need to be sorry, though Cornelius gave the answer I thought I would get from you. :biglaugh

Yeah, but I don't believe what he believes. "Christians who have learned the rules of faith and are now using the promises of God to place food and water on their tables. (Christians without faith dies )"

Sounds like a boogeyman God to me. Bread and water = Word and Spirit.

 

[shad]

"Christians who have learned the rules of faith and are now using the promises of God to place food and water on their tables.

What do you mean by this RND? thank you

 

[RND]

"Christians who have learned the rules of faith and are now using the promises of God to place food and water on their tables.

What do you mean by this RND? thank you

That was a quote by Cornelius in another post.

viewtopic.php?p=421250#p421250

 

[Cornelius]

No need to be sorry, though Cornelius gave the answer I thought I would get from you. :biglaugh

Yeah, but I don't believe what he believes. "Christians who have learned the rules of faith and are now using the promises of God to place food and water on their tables. (Christians without faith dies )"

Sounds like a boogeyman God to me. Bread and water = Word and Spirit.

So, you are saying that we will be able to live without faith during the tribulation?

 

[Cornelius]

"Christians who have learned the rules of faith and are now using the promises of God to place food and water on their tables.

What do you mean by this RND? thank you

I just mean that exactly.

At this moment , the economic meltdown has started (as prophesied) and at this moment, Christians and non-Christians alike are in the same "boat" .With one difference: Some Christians are not in a panic, because they have been practicing HOW to trust God when He says: God shall supply all your needs......... They have been doing it for years and now they are confidant that He does indeed honor His promises.

Some however have not been interested in learning this, and are now facing a problem. How, do we trust God to place food on a table, when we have no money to buy it ?

 

[Cornelius]

Just imagine this :

Tribulation is in full swing. You do not have any money to buy anything. Your appendix is about to burst and all the doctors have closed down , because of the war. There is absolute chaos.Nobody can help you. Now it just happens to be, that you run into another Christian with the same thing happening to him.

Here is how it goes:

One Christians have never stood on "Through His stripes ye were healed" (This Christian have never really questioned why it says "were" in this promise and have mainly lived without ever really standing the test of faith of this promise) He has no clue how to trust God really, because he is trying to do it the way that the church has taught him all these years (although he has seen the church-method never brought results, he has never bothered to as WHY)

His appendix burst and he dies

No 2 Christian has been through this many times before. He has learned not to trust the arm of the flesh and have made a decision many years ago to learn HOW to trust the promises. He speaks the promise in the face of the situation and stands on the Word with no fear. The pain gets worse and he still does not become double minded, because he has practiced this many times before.He still only believe God and His Word. The pain gets less and less. There is a miracle .

He lives because he had faith .

C