What is a man?

[Edward]

All I can say is, yeah, OK. You can stick with him. I'll stick with Scripture.

I'm not sticking with "him" I'm sticking with truth. It would seem that this thread has run it's course, so...I'll prolly wind down in my responses.

 

[Butch5]

Huh? Which video are you talking about?

No, I'm not believing that man is a spirit because I'm comfortable with it or have always believed it. I have changed my views before by learning. I used to a be a hardcore Pre-trib believer in the rapture.

But I learned to be able to set aside my preconceptions and look very closely at others views...and somewhere on down the line, I now understand that the rapture can not be Pre-trib!

I watched it until his conversation with Elijah.

If you set aside your preconceptions, then you should be able to see what it is that I'm saying and see that it fits with the Scripture.

 

[Butch5]

Uh-oh, now you're assuming things into the text like you said we shouldn't. ;)

I'm not assuming anything. I said, it could be. that's listing possibilities. However, I posted the first verse which explains what Paul meant. He said visions and revelations.

 

[Butch5]

No problems. Just scripture.

If you want to believe the heresy of soul sleep, against what Jesus and Paul and John taught, that’s on you.




Who are these?


After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying:
“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
Revelation 7:9-17


So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8

• We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Where is the Lord we are present with when we are absent from our body when we die?




JLB

I already addressed that. I guess you have no reply and so you'll just post it again.

 

[Butch5]

I'm not sticking with "him" I'm sticking with truth. It would seem that this thread has run it's course, so...I'll prolly wind down in my responses.

Why did you post the video? I doesn't prove anything you said. It's just what someone claims. He claims to have spoken to Elijah and his friend spoke to Moses and Abraham.
First he says that God speaks to him in a conversation. Then he says that Elijah was sent to tell him something. If God speaks to him in a conversation why send Elijah. I'm sorry, I'm not buying it.

 

[Edward]

I watched it until his conversation with Elijah.

If you set aside your preconceptions, then you should be able to see what it is that I'm saying and see that it fits with the Scripture.

Setting aside ones preconceptions doesn't mean to believe everything you hear. You have a lot of holes in your belief system. You are too engaged with the flesh and the world and scripture tells us to be led by the spirit and not the flesh.

Do you believe in anything that you have never seen before?? I wonder how you would describe faith and how it works.

 

[Butch5]

Setting aside ones preconceptions doesn't mean to believe everything you hear. You have a lot of holes in your belief system. You are too engaged with the flesh and the world and scripture tells us to be led by the spirit and not the flesh.

Do you believe in anything that you have never seen before?? I wonder how you would describe faith and how it works.

That's nonsense. Show me a hole in what I believe.

 

[Edward]

That's nonsense. Show me a hole in what I believe.

I can not because you continue to demonstrate how narrow minded you are.

I posted the video to show that I am not alone in my beliefs. Many members of this board are also in agreement with me. So it's not like we're just making this stuff up. Man is a spiritual being and not a human.

Can countless of us here, on youtube and around the world all be wrong and Butch is the only person who has the truth? I think not.

 

[Butch5]

I can not because you continue to demonstrate how narrow minded you are.

I posted the video to show that I am not alone in my beliefs. Many members of this board are also in agreement with me. So it's not like we're just making this stuff up. Man is a spiritual being and not a human.

Can countless of us here, on youtube and around the world all be wrong and Butch is the only person who has the truth? I think not.

You can't because there are no holes. Just because people agree with you doesn't make you right. That's a logical fallacy know as the Bandwagon Fallacy. It's an appeal to popularity.

"Definition: This fallacy occurs when someone attempts to prove a claim on the grounds that it is popular."

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fallacyinlogic.com

Can countless evolutionists be wrong and one creationist be right? It doesn't matter how many people believe something, that doesn't make it right or true. At one time much of the world believed that the world was flat, that didn't make it flat.

You say there are holes in my beliefs, but you can't show any. You reject what I say based on a logical fallacy

 

[Edward]

Scripture say

You can't because there are no holes. Just because people agree with you doesn't make you right. That's a logical fallacy know as the Bandwagon Fallacy. It's an appeal to popularity.

"Definition: This fallacy occurs when someone attempts to prove a claim on the grounds that it is popular."

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Master your finances and reach your goals. We offer expert-driven advice and resources to help you earn, save and grow your money.

fallacyinlogic.com

Can countless evolutionists be wrong and one creationist be right? It doesn't matter how many people believe something, that doesn't make it right or true. At one time much of the world believed that the world was flat, that didn't make it flat.

You say there are holes in my beliefs, but you can't show any. You reject what I say based on a logical fallacy

Christianity is popular? Did you ask the rest of the world that? China? Russia? Oh.
Boy I didn't see that coming, lol! While there is a shred of truth in that, the fact that usually the majority is wrong it would still not bring untruth to...in the mouth of two or three witnesses the truth is established. For one thing, saying that since most (Christians) on a christian board believe in their spirit, or many christians and Pastors worldwide & on youtube believe we have a spirit, would constitute a bandwagon/implied majority so are therefore wrong...is ludicrous! Christians are not the majority on earth. So there's no bandwagon there.

And these are the last days, so at the time most of the world is going insane and most people have no clue. And even if deception is rampant does in no way mean oh then this is a lie, man doesn't have a spirit. Scripture says that knowledge will be increased in the last days so, so more people are catching on to the truth.

So I'm not on any "bandwagon". In fact, I've known we have spirits since I was about 10 years old or so. When you draw close to a girl (opposite sex) you can pick up on it. Actually it's more like a punch in the face but a nice one. I paid attention to girls. When I was married, in the early years, me & my wife could talk without speaking words. I wasn't walking with the Lord then. But I sure perceived that this was real. So I started testing it. She was upstairs out of sight. I thought about her, focused on her and sent her my thoughts. She came quick stepping down the steps, Ed what's going on? Later on I got with the Lord and began learning.
Most of the time I pray while I read God's word. It says His Holy Spirit will lead me into all truth. Is that a lie? Do you pray while you read? to you strive to be aware of God's presence with you? Or do you just read with your carnal mind trying on your own to understand it?

 

[Edward]

Can countless evolutionists be wrong and one creationist be right? It doesn't matter how many people believe something, that doesn't make it right or true. At one time much of the world believed that the world was flat, that didn't make it flat.

Are you on that we need air to breath and gravity to keep us firmly on earth bandwagon? Following your logic, I'm guessing not?

Ok so almost everyone believes we have a spirit, but one man thinks no, so...you must be right! Uhh...

 

[Edward]

Let's approach this from a different direction, shall we?

Tell me...what is worship?

 

[JohnDB]

Guys,
This thread is unbecoming of the faith you hold.
Let's show some grace here...especially in your speech.

 

[Butch5]

So, we've established that a man is a physical living soul and not a spirit. We've established that other than the Holy Spirit, the only spirit in man is the breath of life and that is a part of God. Thus man is not a spirit. We've also seen from Jesus that man is not a spirit as He said, a spirit does not have flesh and bone. Man has flesh and bone, thus he is not a spirit. We've established that the soul ceases to exist when the breath of life returns to God since the man returns to dust, thus there is nothing left to live on. Having established this it becomes evident that any mention of a dead person being alive must be figurative or a vision or something along those lines, and not saying one is literally alive. We've seen that Paul didn't believe that the dead were alive. Speaking of Christians who had died he said, if there is no resurrection they had perished. It's quite obvious from that statement that he didn't believe they were alive somewhere. The Old Testament confirms this with statements about the dead know nothing, their thoughts perish, they cannot praise God, etc. The Bible is pretty clear on this subject.

So why then do people think they are a spirit or soul living in a flesh body? This idea came into Christianity from the Greeks. Plato's philosophies were popular during New Testament times. The Greeks considered the flesh to be evil and the goal was for their spirit to escape the body and ascend into the heavens to the ultimate god. As more and more Gentiles became Christians the Jewish influences faded and Gentile thought began to shape Christianity. The rest they say is history.

 

[LovethroughDove]

There is one tiny problem with your theory. Jesus says something totally different than what you have said.

Matthew 25:41

Matthew 25:34

 

[Butch5]

There is one tiny problem with your theory. Jesus says something totally different than what you have said.

Matthew 25:41

Matthew 25:34

Those passages don't conflict with what I said.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Those passages don't conflict with what I said.

I could've sworn you were saying our soul ceases to exist. Am I misunderstanding?

 

[Butch5]

I could've sworn you were saying our soul ceases to exist. Am I misunderstanding?

That's what I said.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Okay, thank you for letting me know I wasn't misunderstanding. I'm gonna post one more scripture and tell you what I know to be true. Jude 1:23 snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear - hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

Later on in scripture we have the revelation of a second death. The second death is where you are missing the eternal stuff happening. The literal hell going on. The first death is the death of our physical bodies and them returning to the ground. For a millisecond they "sleep" and then the eternal journey happens.

We are saving people from the second death. Also, when you are Christian, you are not afraid of the first death........so you can be like Christ and not react in a fleshly way when confronted with death. I have lots more I could say, but this is all I'm gonna say.

 

[Butch5]

Okay, thank you for letting me know I wasn't misunderstanding. I'm gonna post one more scripture and tell you what I know to be true. Jude 1:23 snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear - hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

Later on in scripture we have the revelation of a second death. The second death is where you are missing the eternal stuff happening. The literal hell going on. The first death is the death of our physical bodies and them returning to the ground. For a millisecond they "sleep" and then the eternal journey happens.

We are saving people from the second death. Also, when you are Christian, you are not afraid of the first death........so you can be like Christ and not react in a fleshly way when confronted with death. I have lots more I could say, but this is all I'm gonna say.

I don't see how this addresses what I said.