I posted this on another forum a few years ago but I didn't get much feedback except some pats on the back and a few insults. I am posting it in this location because I feel it is the ultimate goal of all prophecy. The fulfillment of god's eternal purpose. This may be viewed as an insult to some because of our programming by the American commercial gospel enterprise. Give it a chance and it might enlighten you as to what the church(called out ones) really is. It's in two parts. I did a rough draft of the article and a writer friend fine tuned it with some editing. I believe it's a revelation from the Lord
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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What is God's eternal purpose?
- Thread starter Larry
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #2
The Eternal Purpose of God
Whenever are lead and guided by principles and goals we feel are important, whether they be right or wrong, our whole life and the lives of others is affected. Our lives can be like the runner that sets out to run a race with the wrong finish line in view; he finds himself running and wondering aimlessly in wrong directions. How many times have we set an agenda for our lives and found that they were wrong? How many years have we lost in false start? How many dead end streets have we traveled in our search for what we perceived was real, only to realize that something was missing? The problem is that once we start on a course and commit our lives to it, it is hard to change. It often requires tearing down many of the things we have spent years in building.
We are told in Hebrews 11:10 that Abraham looked for a city “whose builder and maker is God.†Yet no where in the genesis account of his life do we find him making that confession. Abraham’s desire was a hidden mystery until it was revealed by Paul. The fullness and the reality of this mystery has been clouded and distorted by the work of the enemy in these last days through misguided and ambitious leaders who have divided the church round a foundation that has nothing to do with God’s eternal purpose. Are we building for the sake of building? Are we building without and contrary to the blue print? Are we following the path of the majority without fully questioning if what we are building is really from God?
Paul stated God’s eternal purpose this way in his letter to the Ephesians: “To me, who am less than the least of all the saints [this was given to a man who had a humble view of himself], this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles [one] the unsearchable riches of Christ, and [two] to make all see [turn the lights on] what is the fellowship* of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by [through] the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,†Eph 3:8-12, NKJV
When we compare Hebrews 11 to Ephesians 3, and then when we go back to Abraham, we find that in his faith he was being guided to something at the time that he could not see…a heavenly city of which he was a part. This revelation was made clear through the apostles and prophets with Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone. God’s purpose from creation on was to build a temple of His presence out of living stones. The focus was not on forms, agendas, rituals, Sunday services, programs, but a living body jointed connected together without any type of divisions.
This point is made clear by Paul in Ephesians 2:19–22, “Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in [and through] whom the whole [not just some little part] building, being fitted together [all of his house], grows into a holy temple [made without hands] in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.†NKJV
Can you see what we have done with His purposes? The agendas, the false revelations, the many divisions, the names we have established in which we have drawn many around, it has not had at its source the builder and maker that has had only one purpose. We have strayed off course because we have lost our focus. If every man had been building on that foundation, there would have been a continual joining of His members into one house… His temple. We have miserably lost the vision because we have built around men. We are all now in the same position of Israel when Jesus first came… our traditions, no matter how noble and sincere, have had many noble plans under unbroken men.
God’s only purpose was to create a living temple of living stones and from that temple to reveal his wisdom and majesty, glory and power, to the ruling angelic powers. These angels are watching God as He continually unfolds his glory and majesty in an ever exponential and increasing way. The revelation of His purpose is so vast and powerful that these wise creatures are literally BLOWN AWAY! All they can say as they stand around His throne is HOLY,HOLY,HOLY! God’s eternal purpose is to unfold this revelation of His glory and power in His earthly temple. You and I and all the saints are to be bound together by bands of love. In fact, He desires to reveal His love in all it’s totality through His extended body on this earth as it now is in heaven. This extreme measure of revelation is too profound and intense for any one man to comprehend alone. We must comprehend it together, corporately.
“That Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you [all], being rooted and grounded in love [all of us together…no divisions], may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height — to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge [knowledge will not work here]; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.†Woooow!!!!Eph 3:17-19, NKJV
Here we see the cornerstone Jesus and the great high priest, giving God the Father a PLACE TO DWELL forever. My whole being drools, longs for and thirst to see this. We have been too rooted in men and their many revelations. Our deceived and divided egos have provided us with nothing of His finale and eternal purpose. This has caused me to question and consider that maybe we have no revelation at all. Can we honestly say that as we all stand before Jesus at judgment day we will hear these words, “well done my good and faithful servant.†On what basis have we been good and faithful to His eternal purpose compared to the efforts of building our own kingdoms? I fear and tremble the coming of the day of judgment, it will come just as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. Whoever destroys that temple; he will be destroyed and banished from His presence forever. The cause is great and so is the consequence.
How can we ignore the very heart of Jesus in his prayer in John 17?
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Can we not see that the accomplishment of God’s eternal purpose depends on an absolute unity between the people who are called by HIS name? I am not saying we should be in unity with those who meet in their own name which is the name they give to their church or ministry but those who gather in HIS name. The corporate indwelling that will allow God to pour himself in all FULLNESS can only be accomplished through a body that is in PERFECT unity. Does it sound impossible? It is with men who do not understand the cross. These men seek their own glory and significance and see Jesus as a vehicle to accomplish that end.
We need to go to the cross and let it destroy all of our selfish ambition. We need to take the promises that God had given us and apply them for the purpose for which they were given…so that we can be partakers of the divine nature:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Why do we defile our faith by applying the promises of God to things that feed our carnal nature?
1)money( he became poor that you may become rich)
2)significance( I will make you the “head†and not the “tailâ€)
Applying the promises to such ungodly desires do not produce the divine nature and therefore it cannot produce the inner life that God needs as building material for his temple of living stones. When you build a house will you use Styrofoam blocks that are painted to look like bricks? NO! You will reject such false material and purchase real stones. So it is with God, He will reject the blocks that only have a superficial veneer to make them appear as stones. He will quarry real stones to build his temple
Whenever are lead and guided by principles and goals we feel are important, whether they be right or wrong, our whole life and the lives of others is affected. Our lives can be like the runner that sets out to run a race with the wrong finish line in view; he finds himself running and wondering aimlessly in wrong directions. How many times have we set an agenda for our lives and found that they were wrong? How many years have we lost in false start? How many dead end streets have we traveled in our search for what we perceived was real, only to realize that something was missing? The problem is that once we start on a course and commit our lives to it, it is hard to change. It often requires tearing down many of the things we have spent years in building.
We are told in Hebrews 11:10 that Abraham looked for a city “whose builder and maker is God.†Yet no where in the genesis account of his life do we find him making that confession. Abraham’s desire was a hidden mystery until it was revealed by Paul. The fullness and the reality of this mystery has been clouded and distorted by the work of the enemy in these last days through misguided and ambitious leaders who have divided the church round a foundation that has nothing to do with God’s eternal purpose. Are we building for the sake of building? Are we building without and contrary to the blue print? Are we following the path of the majority without fully questioning if what we are building is really from God?
Paul stated God’s eternal purpose this way in his letter to the Ephesians: “To me, who am less than the least of all the saints [this was given to a man who had a humble view of himself], this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles [one] the unsearchable riches of Christ, and [two] to make all see [turn the lights on] what is the fellowship* of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by [through] the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,†Eph 3:8-12, NKJV
When we compare Hebrews 11 to Ephesians 3, and then when we go back to Abraham, we find that in his faith he was being guided to something at the time that he could not see…a heavenly city of which he was a part. This revelation was made clear through the apostles and prophets with Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone. God’s purpose from creation on was to build a temple of His presence out of living stones. The focus was not on forms, agendas, rituals, Sunday services, programs, but a living body jointed connected together without any type of divisions.
This point is made clear by Paul in Ephesians 2:19–22, “Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in [and through] whom the whole [not just some little part] building, being fitted together [all of his house], grows into a holy temple [made without hands] in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.†NKJV
Can you see what we have done with His purposes? The agendas, the false revelations, the many divisions, the names we have established in which we have drawn many around, it has not had at its source the builder and maker that has had only one purpose. We have strayed off course because we have lost our focus. If every man had been building on that foundation, there would have been a continual joining of His members into one house… His temple. We have miserably lost the vision because we have built around men. We are all now in the same position of Israel when Jesus first came… our traditions, no matter how noble and sincere, have had many noble plans under unbroken men.
God’s only purpose was to create a living temple of living stones and from that temple to reveal his wisdom and majesty, glory and power, to the ruling angelic powers. These angels are watching God as He continually unfolds his glory and majesty in an ever exponential and increasing way. The revelation of His purpose is so vast and powerful that these wise creatures are literally BLOWN AWAY! All they can say as they stand around His throne is HOLY,HOLY,HOLY! God’s eternal purpose is to unfold this revelation of His glory and power in His earthly temple. You and I and all the saints are to be bound together by bands of love. In fact, He desires to reveal His love in all it’s totality through His extended body on this earth as it now is in heaven. This extreme measure of revelation is too profound and intense for any one man to comprehend alone. We must comprehend it together, corporately.
“That Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you [all], being rooted and grounded in love [all of us together…no divisions], may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height — to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge [knowledge will not work here]; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.†Woooow!!!!Eph 3:17-19, NKJV
Here we see the cornerstone Jesus and the great high priest, giving God the Father a PLACE TO DWELL forever. My whole being drools, longs for and thirst to see this. We have been too rooted in men and their many revelations. Our deceived and divided egos have provided us with nothing of His finale and eternal purpose. This has caused me to question and consider that maybe we have no revelation at all. Can we honestly say that as we all stand before Jesus at judgment day we will hear these words, “well done my good and faithful servant.†On what basis have we been good and faithful to His eternal purpose compared to the efforts of building our own kingdoms? I fear and tremble the coming of the day of judgment, it will come just as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. Whoever destroys that temple; he will be destroyed and banished from His presence forever. The cause is great and so is the consequence.
How can we ignore the very heart of Jesus in his prayer in John 17?
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Can we not see that the accomplishment of God’s eternal purpose depends on an absolute unity between the people who are called by HIS name? I am not saying we should be in unity with those who meet in their own name which is the name they give to their church or ministry but those who gather in HIS name. The corporate indwelling that will allow God to pour himself in all FULLNESS can only be accomplished through a body that is in PERFECT unity. Does it sound impossible? It is with men who do not understand the cross. These men seek their own glory and significance and see Jesus as a vehicle to accomplish that end.
We need to go to the cross and let it destroy all of our selfish ambition. We need to take the promises that God had given us and apply them for the purpose for which they were given…so that we can be partakers of the divine nature:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Why do we defile our faith by applying the promises of God to things that feed our carnal nature?
1)money( he became poor that you may become rich)
2)significance( I will make you the “head†and not the “tailâ€)
Applying the promises to such ungodly desires do not produce the divine nature and therefore it cannot produce the inner life that God needs as building material for his temple of living stones. When you build a house will you use Styrofoam blocks that are painted to look like bricks? NO! You will reject such false material and purchase real stones. So it is with God, He will reject the blocks that only have a superficial veneer to make them appear as stones. He will quarry real stones to build his temple
- Thread starter
- #3
The Eternal Purpose(part two)
This revelation stands to this very day and age as a challenge to this generation. Its implantation has been neglected because we have primarily fallen into a clergy/laity and a man centered gospel. Our near-sighted focus has caused us to blindly follow our agendas that have successful covered this mystery. Though many may speak of His eternal purpose, what they are building has no power or glory to support its fruits.
What Peter taught was a simple foundational revelation to baby Christians:
“Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby, if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious. Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ [not men].†1 Peter 2:1-5
When David wanted to build God a house, this is what he was told: “Go and tell My servant David, ‘Thus says the Lord: ‘Would you build a house for Me to dwell in? For I have not dwelt in a house since the time that I brought the children of Israel up from Egypt, even to this day, but have moved about in a tent and in a tabernacle. Wherever I have moved about with all the children of Israel, have I ever spoken a word to anyone from the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people Israel, saying, 'Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?'"'2 Sam 7:5-7, NKJV
This is because God doesn’t dwell in a house made with man’s hands:
"However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says: 'Heaven is My throne, And earth is My footstool. What house will you build for Me? says the Lord, Or what is the place of My rest?†Acts 7:48-49, NKJV
We are to be his dwelling place and in us he will pour out his total fullness before an unregenerate world.
However, due to the hardness of Israel’s heart and the necessity to hide this revelation until Jesus died, He allowed Solomon to build Him a temple.
Lets look at the shadow and type :
“And it came to pass, when the priests came out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord, so that the priests could not continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord. Then Solomon spoke: ‘The Lord said He would dwell in the dark cloud. I have surely built You an exalted house, And a place for You to dwell in forever.’" 1 Kings 8:10-13, NKJV
We see that when the glory of the Lord filled the temple the priests could not stand to minister. When the Glory fills the REAL temple of living stones, the pastors who love the pre-eminence will not be able to stand there either. They will no longer be able to stand before the whole congregation exalting their portion over all others and thereby holding the entire body in bondage. Notice how God’s eternal purpose will be shown by the CHURCH and not the five fold ministry as we have come to call it? I remember the day when the five fold ministry was the buzz word for anyone on the cutting edge. We ran to ordain and set up the five fold ministries in our little groups, never realizing the reality of God’s eternal purpose that begins with Him and not us… no matter how we feel about our sincere efforts to be relevant.
The five fold ministry, according to Ephesians 4, is just a temporary scaffolding “till†the temple of living stones begins to function as one new man. Sadly, all we seem to see is a higher and higher erection of the scaffolding. With the scaffolding being so high today, one wonders how anyone could reach down to build anything at all on the foundation. It seems today we have built churches around the scaffolding and we have focused more on the scaffolding than the building. Even though most cannot see this. The so-called five fold ministry has laterally dominated the building and we have lost its biblical purpose and calling. If fact, the five fold ministry has been the primary cause for all the division and separations we see today. “Till we all come to the unity of faith†has been lost in the exaltation of men and we have lost the simple gathering around Jesus the only head of His body. Somehow one can hear the echo coming. “Wow to the shepherds…!!
The temple of living stones has been removed from the foundation of Jesus and has been stolen, one by one, by men to erect their own kingdoms in Jesus’ name. All this seems right to those caught in a man-centered movement, yet the clear evidence of what the eternal purpose embodies is ignored. Why has God let this happen? I am convinced in God’s divine patience that He permits the natural man to precede Him with his best efforts followed by His divine intervention. The nature of men’s egos and interworking of his flesh tends to subconsciously cause him to scramble to reach the top of the hill first. “When the enemy comes in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord will raise us a standard against him.†Today the Lord is calling many outside the camp, He is allowing the stones to be formed and perfected outside the camp and out of the control of men and their movements.
“And the temple, when it was being built, was built with stone finished at the quarry, so that no hammer or chisel or any iron tool was heard in the temple while it was being built.†1 Kings 6:7, NKJV
Today many of these saints have come out of the Babylonian system [institutional church] and have been led into the wilderness to be purged and perfected. They will come out of the wilderness in a harmony and unity where God will dwell in all His fullness. There will be no arguments or debates, no more splitting of hairs, no more gathering around one man’s leadership and no more names…only one name will prevail and exalted and that is the name of Jesus.
Much of what man accomplishes necessitates public exposure, conventions and commercialism to be successful, but what God is doing is quietly transforming the hearts of men and women in the furnace of affliction. For God’s glory to work in the hearts men and women self must be abandoned totally. I don’t think many have seriously considered the path one must take to fully know God. Business makes poor soil for preparing for the harvest.
There are far too many leaders raised up by the instructions of men and far too few raised up through the life of Jesus. We need to minister out of life not information. I think we talk a lot about these things, but for us to have a true corporate reality of the depth of His love it is going to take a deep reality of the cross working in our daily lives… few have this revelation because we are too busy doing without it. God is looking for those who live in the reality of heavenly places. Those who are not caught up in the arena of this world’s problems and solution see His eternal purpose beyond this life. We are here but for a very short time, nothing supersedes the kingdom of God. The sounds of God’s dealings with those who are going through this process of purification will not be heard with fan fare. They will walk by an inner revelation of the cross and an obedience and love to the Lord Jesus Himself. They will move through the full power of the Holy Spirit as living stones, hearts knitted together, being the temple without hands. God has often, at times, sent us into Babylon for a painful lesson in the works of men followed by a deliverance from the systems and traditions of men:
“Be in pain, and labor to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in birth pangs. For now you shall go forth from the city, you shall dwell in the field, and to Babylon you shall go. There you shall be delivered; There the Lord will redeem you From the hand of your enemies.†Mic 4:10, NKJV
In the finale end, this living temple will rise and become the Holy City, the new Jerusalem.
“Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, ‘Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.’ Then He who sat on the throne sid, ‘Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me, Write, for these words are true and faithful.’†Rev 21:1-5, NKJV
This revelation stands to this very day and age as a challenge to this generation. Its implantation has been neglected because we have primarily fallen into a clergy/laity and a man centered gospel. Our near-sighted focus has caused us to blindly follow our agendas that have successful covered this mystery. Though many may speak of His eternal purpose, what they are building has no power or glory to support its fruits.
What Peter taught was a simple foundational revelation to baby Christians:
“Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby, if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious. Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ [not men].†1 Peter 2:1-5
When David wanted to build God a house, this is what he was told: “Go and tell My servant David, ‘Thus says the Lord: ‘Would you build a house for Me to dwell in? For I have not dwelt in a house since the time that I brought the children of Israel up from Egypt, even to this day, but have moved about in a tent and in a tabernacle. Wherever I have moved about with all the children of Israel, have I ever spoken a word to anyone from the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people Israel, saying, 'Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?'"'2 Sam 7:5-7, NKJV
This is because God doesn’t dwell in a house made with man’s hands:
"However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says: 'Heaven is My throne, And earth is My footstool. What house will you build for Me? says the Lord, Or what is the place of My rest?†Acts 7:48-49, NKJV
We are to be his dwelling place and in us he will pour out his total fullness before an unregenerate world.
However, due to the hardness of Israel’s heart and the necessity to hide this revelation until Jesus died, He allowed Solomon to build Him a temple.
Lets look at the shadow and type :
“And it came to pass, when the priests came out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord, so that the priests could not continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord. Then Solomon spoke: ‘The Lord said He would dwell in the dark cloud. I have surely built You an exalted house, And a place for You to dwell in forever.’" 1 Kings 8:10-13, NKJV
We see that when the glory of the Lord filled the temple the priests could not stand to minister. When the Glory fills the REAL temple of living stones, the pastors who love the pre-eminence will not be able to stand there either. They will no longer be able to stand before the whole congregation exalting their portion over all others and thereby holding the entire body in bondage. Notice how God’s eternal purpose will be shown by the CHURCH and not the five fold ministry as we have come to call it? I remember the day when the five fold ministry was the buzz word for anyone on the cutting edge. We ran to ordain and set up the five fold ministries in our little groups, never realizing the reality of God’s eternal purpose that begins with Him and not us… no matter how we feel about our sincere efforts to be relevant.
The five fold ministry, according to Ephesians 4, is just a temporary scaffolding “till†the temple of living stones begins to function as one new man. Sadly, all we seem to see is a higher and higher erection of the scaffolding. With the scaffolding being so high today, one wonders how anyone could reach down to build anything at all on the foundation. It seems today we have built churches around the scaffolding and we have focused more on the scaffolding than the building. Even though most cannot see this. The so-called five fold ministry has laterally dominated the building and we have lost its biblical purpose and calling. If fact, the five fold ministry has been the primary cause for all the division and separations we see today. “Till we all come to the unity of faith†has been lost in the exaltation of men and we have lost the simple gathering around Jesus the only head of His body. Somehow one can hear the echo coming. “Wow to the shepherds…!!
The temple of living stones has been removed from the foundation of Jesus and has been stolen, one by one, by men to erect their own kingdoms in Jesus’ name. All this seems right to those caught in a man-centered movement, yet the clear evidence of what the eternal purpose embodies is ignored. Why has God let this happen? I am convinced in God’s divine patience that He permits the natural man to precede Him with his best efforts followed by His divine intervention. The nature of men’s egos and interworking of his flesh tends to subconsciously cause him to scramble to reach the top of the hill first. “When the enemy comes in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord will raise us a standard against him.†Today the Lord is calling many outside the camp, He is allowing the stones to be formed and perfected outside the camp and out of the control of men and their movements.
“And the temple, when it was being built, was built with stone finished at the quarry, so that no hammer or chisel or any iron tool was heard in the temple while it was being built.†1 Kings 6:7, NKJV
Today many of these saints have come out of the Babylonian system [institutional church] and have been led into the wilderness to be purged and perfected. They will come out of the wilderness in a harmony and unity where God will dwell in all His fullness. There will be no arguments or debates, no more splitting of hairs, no more gathering around one man’s leadership and no more names…only one name will prevail and exalted and that is the name of Jesus.
Much of what man accomplishes necessitates public exposure, conventions and commercialism to be successful, but what God is doing is quietly transforming the hearts of men and women in the furnace of affliction. For God’s glory to work in the hearts men and women self must be abandoned totally. I don’t think many have seriously considered the path one must take to fully know God. Business makes poor soil for preparing for the harvest.
There are far too many leaders raised up by the instructions of men and far too few raised up through the life of Jesus. We need to minister out of life not information. I think we talk a lot about these things, but for us to have a true corporate reality of the depth of His love it is going to take a deep reality of the cross working in our daily lives… few have this revelation because we are too busy doing without it. God is looking for those who live in the reality of heavenly places. Those who are not caught up in the arena of this world’s problems and solution see His eternal purpose beyond this life. We are here but for a very short time, nothing supersedes the kingdom of God. The sounds of God’s dealings with those who are going through this process of purification will not be heard with fan fare. They will walk by an inner revelation of the cross and an obedience and love to the Lord Jesus Himself. They will move through the full power of the Holy Spirit as living stones, hearts knitted together, being the temple without hands. God has often, at times, sent us into Babylon for a painful lesson in the works of men followed by a deliverance from the systems and traditions of men:
“Be in pain, and labor to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in birth pangs. For now you shall go forth from the city, you shall dwell in the field, and to Babylon you shall go. There you shall be delivered; There the Lord will redeem you From the hand of your enemies.†Mic 4:10, NKJV
In the finale end, this living temple will rise and become the Holy City, the new Jerusalem.
“Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, ‘Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.’ Then He who sat on the throne sid, ‘Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me, Write, for these words are true and faithful.’†Rev 21:1-5, NKJV
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Hitch
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Free advise is always worth what you pay for it so take it or leave it.
I think you'll get a lot more readers if you break this down to one or two paragraphs at a time.
Anyways welcome in
jasoncran
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- May 17, 2009
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hes talking about the idea that theres no churches nor set doctrines by men just a unity of faith.
i disagree strongly on that all churchs are babylonian in nature.
larry, comes across as home church type. uh that reverse to the new earth and new heavens wont come by church unity. as im sure the early church was way more unified then todays church.
i disagree strongly on that all churchs are babylonian in nature.
larry, comes across as home church type. uh that reverse to the new earth and new heavens wont come by church unity. as im sure the early church was way more unified then todays church.
- Thread starter
- #6
Free advise is always worth what you pay for it so take it or leave it.
I think you'll get a lot more readers if you break this down to one or two paragraphs at a time.
Anyways welcome in
I'll do that next time I post it,thanks.
Adullam
Member
- Mar 28, 2009
- 2,175
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Very good treatise! I especially like your scafolding picture. That is a unique example!
There are many who believe as you do. I, of course, am among them. But sometimes the lessons need to be taught and learned a little at a time. It's like erosion through truth!
Those who agree with you will say Aye! and those who don't won't even make it through the text!
Take the gifts/scafolding idea for example. That is a thread in itself.
It comes down to this. There is a wide view that sees the whole picture. Only a few will agree with the view as presented. But there are the details and the closer view. As people learn to see the details better, they will come to understand the wider view.
So it is better to present the truth in details! A little at a time...while keeping the larger view firmly in sight!;)
Just a thought!
Blessings to you brother!
John
- Thread starter
- #8
When I read psalm 133 I see the anointing flowing from the head to hem of the garment through unity.It's interesting about the"hem of the garment" I notice that perhaps you are a Messianic believer? Maybe you already know this but I will repeat it in case anyone wanders by this way.
The hem refers to the "tzitziyot" It was the tassel that has a blue thread wovwn into it. It was there to remind the Jew to always remember the commandments of God. It was this same tassel that the women with the issue of blood touched on Jesus' garment.The healing that came to her was perhaps prophesied of in Malachi 4 :2 "the son of righteousness will arise with healing in his wings" The wing is "kanaf" in hebrew and means the fringe of the wing. maybe that inspired her. the Jewish brother who gave this insight seemed to think so.
In any case it truly applies to unity. If we want to see true healing on a grand scale and the fulfillment of God's commands(to love) then the anointing of Jesus must flow from him(the head)to the lowest place(the hem) This will only come through unity. If we want to see a full manifestation of the glory that he swore to fill the earth with then the living stones must come together.That will be like the completion of Solomon's temple. The priests could not stand to minister in that shadow and type. imagine the glory when the real temple is completed. That will only come through unity. Our sect,denominations,streams and movements are an abomination to him.They have divided the body of Christ.
We have leaders that go forth in Jesus' name only to build a little petty kingdom of their own. A place where they can be significant and stand out as important.And all the while the sheep wander in the wilderness looking for a true shepherd.
They touch one of the things that God swore he would never share with another..his glory. Jesus' heart prayer in John 17 was 'Father,I pray they may be one EVEN as we are one" This prayer rolls off like water off a ducks back to those petty leaders. After all,the sheep are theirs,why should they risk losing their little fief for some naive idea about unity. For this they will be judged.
Whoever destroys the temple of God,him will God destroy.
Very good treatise! I especially like your scafolding picture. That is a unique example!
There are many who believe as you do. I, of course, am among them. But sometimes the lessons need to be taught and learned a little at a time. It's like erosion through truth!
Those who agree with you will say Aye! and those who don't won't even make it through the text!
Take the gifts/scafolding idea for example. That is a thread in itself.
It comes down to this. There is a wide view that sees the whole picture. Only a few will agree with the view as presented. But there are the details and the closer view. As people learn to see the details better, they will come to understand the wider view.
So it is better to present the truth in details! A little at a time...while keeping the larger view firmly in sight!;)
Just a thought!
Blessings to you brother!
John
Thanks John. Maybe I will break some of this down and leave it open for discussion. You're the second person to suggest this.
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jasoncran
Member
- May 17, 2009
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psalms 133 begins with this hine ma tov.
behold how good it to dwell in unity.
however that doesnt mean we are to be robots. in fact on eschatology i am not the same as my pastor.
he is a pre -tribber/pre wrath and millienialist. i am not in any shape a pre-tribber or other that espouse the seven yr trib. i am pre wrath and millenialist in nature. however i love my pastor. that my friend is unity. agreeing to disagree.
behold how good it to dwell in unity.
however that doesnt mean we are to be robots. in fact on eschatology i am not the same as my pastor.
he is a pre -tribber/pre wrath and millienialist. i am not in any shape a pre-tribber or other that espouse the seven yr trib. i am pre wrath and millenialist in nature. however i love my pastor. that my friend is unity. agreeing to disagree.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Salvation or Redemption thriough Christ. Eph 3:9-11
9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Its a redemptive purpose. See thread :
http://www.christianforums.net/f17/eternal-purpose-creation-26518/
Prentis
Member
- May 25, 2011
- 59
- 0
Thanks for sharing, Larry! I was really hit by the part below:
And it made me think of something I think you would appreciate (if you haven't read it before)
http://www.lit4ever.org/tommyhicks.html (Just so you know, I don't know this site... Just found the vision through google ;) )
And it made me think of something I think you would appreciate (if you haven't read it before)
http://www.lit4ever.org/tommyhicks.html (Just so you know, I don't know this site... Just found the vision through google ;) )
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TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
- Dec 10, 2010
- 1,369
- 19
Were I forced to answer this question with a single word and the choices given me were 'unity', love, and life, I would chose the later.
I believe that God's purpose and reason for His creation embodied itself in the person of Jesus and as the prologue at the beginning of John tells us, "in him was LIFE." Jesus called himself the way, the truth, and the life. He went on to even say that he came that man might have life, and have that life in abundance.
Life is the hope lated out throughout scripture and we are even told that life, age lasting is the gift of God through Jesus.
I believe that God's purpose and reason for His creation embodied itself in the person of Jesus and as the prologue at the beginning of John tells us, "in him was LIFE." Jesus called himself the way, the truth, and the life. He went on to even say that he came that man might have life, and have that life in abundance.
Life is the hope lated out throughout scripture and we are even told that life, age lasting is the gift of God through Jesus.
- Thread starter
- #13
Hi Jason. I don't want to get off on the wrong foot. I do think that doctrine is important. My foundational doctrines are in full alignment with the statement of faith given on this board. I just wanted to clear that up.
About unity, Do you see the unity between you and your pastor equal to the unity between God the Father and God the Son?
That was the prayer of Jesus. Unity is not confined to our little group. It stretches to all believers across our denominational boundaries. Does your pastor work with other pastors in your area?
The eternal purpose is redemptive but that's only the first step.The ultimate goal is to gather these redeemed ones together and build a temple of living stones. A place where God will continually unfold his power and glory to an ever increasing degree. It is the church that will demonstrate his manifold wisdom not the five fold ministry. Redemption is corporate as well as individual.
Hello brother, do you know how precious you are to our Lord Jesus?
I just wanted to say that the part you focused on was not originally from me. My mentor in the faith edited my article and added that part. I am in full agreement with his statement but I don't want you to think I have arrived at a place I have not. I have yet to be broken to the point where I can fully express what he said. I am in that process though. The fact that it spoke to you tells me great things about you. By "great" I don't mean the flatterous term used by the world. I mean the greatness that comes by becoming the servant of the least.
I love you and all brothers and sisters like you. I aspire to reach your level one day in him.
If it is permissible I will leave a link to my mentor's website. He took me into his home many years ago when I was a teenager and broken and homeless. He is like a father to me.He says things like this better than I ever could:
article index:http://therealchurch.com/articles/index.html
Brother,I wept with joy when I read this from that article. I fit the criteria,I just hope I am made worthy:
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jasoncran
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my pastor does. most of the churches in my hometown do work to together. but that doesnt mean we agree on eschatology or some other non salvinic issues. we have had catholics reguraly attend services and one still does.
for the record i am not attending a messianic temple just a jew that came to christ. theres a bit of a story on why i have the isreali flag as an avatar.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
larry:
There is no other step, everything else revolves upon that. All things were made for Christ and His Redemptive Purpose Col 1:
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
All things, the world, Adam, the Devil, everything came into existence for His Eternal Redemptive Purpose !
There is no other step, everything else revolves upon that. All things were made for Christ and His Redemptive Purpose Col 1:
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
All things, the world, Adam, the Devil, everything came into existence for His Eternal Redemptive Purpose !
Adullam
Member
- Mar 28, 2009
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I think Larry is referring to the building up of the Body into a living temple for God. This is what discipleship is supposed to bring us to!
Peace!
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
larry and you need to come to grips with what God's Eternal Purpose is, it is Redemptive through Christ Blood. Everything was brought into existence for that Purpose.
Prentis
Member
- May 25, 2011
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Larry, know that I am not so advanced as my comment might have led you to think... I know there is much more and I wish that I were further down the road. Know that your heart is a real blessing through this thread! :yes
I pray that the Lord would keep training us 'till we are ready, and I hope that we will move on and not hold back until we are in his image, able to walk by the Spirit always! Blessings to you, brother!
I pray that the Lord would keep training us 'till we are ready, and I hope that we will move on and not hold back until we are in his image, able to walk by the Spirit always! Blessings to you, brother!
Adullam
Member
- Mar 28, 2009
- 2,175
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To what purpose? That is the question. Redemption is not a purpose but simply a starting point!
If I buy a hammer with a coupon I have redeemed, what will I use it for. Will I just frame it? The hammer has a purpose that I may not understand yet.
Do you see?
It's like acquiring tools because we like the look of them. But are tool collectors the same as contruction workers?
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
It is.