What is sin? What is law?

[KevinK]

WIP nailed it for me, as well. I think there's two levels to what we know as sin. The old covenant definition covers sin as transgressional in nature- God has a Law, and sin is breaking that law. But a newer meaning drives at the very nature of sin. That it is separation from God. The individual putting his identity, his ego, ahead of the Supreme Identity, and acting in selfishness. Was this not Satan's basic mistake? Putting himself ahead of God? And he continues to encourage man to do the same, furthering man's interests ahead of God's. "Get thee behind Me, Satan."

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

In reality anyone that consumes caffeine or chocolate is a drug addict in my eyes.

Luke 6:42 "Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye."

Don't say nothing then about cigarettes, booz, or heroin if you consume caffeine or chocolate in any quanity. If you do one single drug you might as well have done them all. The bible says if you commit one sin you might as well have committed them all.

Caffeine is a babylonian mind control poison. Its a shame so many dont realize that.

All I can say to this post is this.........I WILL PRAY FOR YOU !!

Got get some of this mind poison....

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Don't head to Utah then, because I think the Mormon's consider chocolate a sin; but I could be wrong.

Ezrider, Thanks for the heads up......Utah is not my kind of place.....

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

The scripture does not say that you must be born again to spend eternity with the father; it simply says that you must be born again, or born of the Spirit in order to see the kingdom of God. For if you are not born again, then you remain blinded to the kingdom of God that is now presently with us. But whether we have eyes that we should see or whether we remain blinded to the kingdom, the same is Lord over both.

This is why I did not quote John 3:3................Jesus says over and over He is the only way to the Father.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I think we have to be careful with a statement like this. We have an ability to convince ourselves of many things and talk ourselves into believing something is right even when it is not. For example, I might look at a woman with lust in my heart but then I might justify it in my own mind by convincing myself that my feelings are natural. We do this all the time with sins such as sexual promiscuity, adultery, sexuality outside of marriage, homosexual behavior, abortion, etc. Even marriage itself is not taken seriously as it should. We seek divorce for many trivial reasons, none of which were defined by God.

Wip Hi,
Thats why I said Things you "know"..... If I am not truly following the word of God and seeking His face and allowing Him to mold me and teach me and "Renewing My Mind" with His word then I can not and will not know what is sin for me....Perhaps I should have made that more clear as to what I was thinking.......
Thanks and Have a great night
Jim

 

[WIP]

I understand, Jim. My point is we must beware that we are not justifying our own sinful behavior but rather following the will of God. I can't begin to count how many times I've heard a phrase similar to..."What's truth for you may not necessarily be truth for me." or "What's right for you may not be what's right for me."

IMHO, what we think we know and what we truly know from God are not always one and the same. Satan has a way of confusing us and this is why it is so important that we hook our anchor on scripture and our relationship with our Lord.

I think Jesus himself demonstrated this for us as recorded in Matthew 4. As we can see, Satan attempted to confuse Jesus but He would not succumb to his lies:
1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry.
3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”
5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple,
6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,
‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”
7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’”
8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”
11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.

I also think Paul emphasizes this in 2 Timothy 3:
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Wip I think our view point on things you know are not meshing here. I do understand what you are saying and it is truth. When I say the things you "know" I am refering to things God has shown you. Things you "know" God has said to you...I was not refering to things as humans we think or believe out of our own understandiing....

There is a big difference in the two. Things we feel or understand to believe from our own understanding can and will fall short more times then none....I believe this is where you are coming from or talking about. Then on the other hand you have to admit there are those things in which you know that you know God said was sin or what have you. The second is where I was coming from .

 

[childeye]

WIP nailed it for me, as well. I think there's two levels to what we know as sin. The old covenant definition covers sin as transgressional in nature- God has a Law, and sin is breaking that law. But a newer meaning drives at the very nature of sin. That it is separation from God. The individual putting his identity, his ego, ahead of the Supreme Identity, and acting in selfishness. Was this not Satan's basic mistake? Putting himself ahead of God? And he continues to encourage man to do the same, furthering man's interests ahead of God's. "Get thee behind Me, Satan."

I agree, sin is separation from God. It is therefore both an action and a state of being. Law therefore is a means to show that all men are in a state of sin and worthy of death.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Psalm 39:5
Behold, thou hast made my days as an handbreadth; and mine age is as nothing before thee: verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah.

 

[twinc]

I agree, sin is separation from God. It is therefore both an action and a state of being. Law therefore is a means to show that all men are in a state of sin and worthy of death.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Psalm 39:5
Behold, thou hast made my days as an handbreadth; and mine age is as nothing before thee: verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah.

I agree, sin is separation from God. It is therefore both an action and a state of being. Law therefore is a means to show that all men are in a state of sin and worthy of death.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Psalm 39:5
Behold, thou hast made my days as an handbreadth; and mine age is as nothing before thee: verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah.

 

[twinc]

it seems the LAW is for the arrogant and came via Moses but the Gospel is for the humble and came via Jesus - we know not sin but by the Law which is our schoolmaster - twinc

 

[childeye]

it seems the LAW is for the arrogant and came via Moses but the Gospel is for the humble and came via Jesus - we know not sin but by the Law which is our schoolmaster - twinc

For what it's worth, I think that what you say here is an accurate concept. If I may, I would like to also submit that we are all arrogant to some degree. For vanity is a circumstance of being a created soul. Which means to me, that we all take for granted the Spirit of God that gives us life.

 

[4afaithfulone]

I often here sin defined as "missing the mark".

But 1st John says that sin is "transgression of the law".

Perhaps we can see it this way:

"whosoever misses the mark transgresses torah, for transgression of the torah is missing the mark" 1 John 3:4

Put into perspective of Jesus's saying:

Think not that I came to destroy the law and the prophets. I have not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For indeed, I say unto you, that until heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the law til all be fulfilled.
-Jesus
​

Scripture says that Moses brought the law, but Jesus brought grace and truth.

Paul said "do we then make void the law? God forbid. We establish" and "does that make the law sinful? God forbid. The law makes known our sins"

Sometimes I feel like the scriptures are saying that despite the grace we have an abundance of by which we are saved alone, there is still goodness to the law that we don't observe.

But then I see passages such as Hebrews 10 which says that those who turn to the law have no more sacrifices for sins because Jesus Christ is our final sin sacrifice. And also scripture that says "Those who read the old covenant are blinded, for a veil is placed over their eyes which is taken away by Christ". (I think I may have quoted the last one wrong).

I guess my question is, and I think it would be Messianic Jews who could answer this best: if there is goodness in the law today, how much should be observed?

See if this helps:
If someone comes to my house, there is no law, I am assuming they well do rightly in my home. But, if they begin to jump on the furniture, destroy things and act lawless with no common sense of how to act towards others, then a rule or law will be given them such as Please do not touch this, do not do that! And now where they had freedom, they in their lack of wisdom and common sense have now imprisoned their selves by laws that if they don't follow will cause them to receive condemnation, discipline and bondage, stifling their behavior.
Had they just knew how to do rightly, they would have no laws accumulated upon them.
We are under the law of Sowing and Reaping. What ever we choose to do to others, will be returned unto us! Perfect justice!
We have been set free in Christ from having to keep the whole law (613 laws), but the 10 commandments written in the Stone, are still and forever for they are the foundation laws for godly boundaries that keep us safe in God's blessings away from the curses. If you love others as you would want them to love you, then you will not lie, cheat, steal etc. And if you love God, you will not be putting anything or one above Him and His Word and doing these two things will fulfill the 10 commandments.
If you don't want a life of always being lied to, then don't lie to others, it you don't want some one to cheat you, then don't cheat others, if you want a good faithful spouse, then prove yourself faithful to your spouse for we shall all reap what we have sown as we are building our own king of heaven. This is the keys to the kingdom, what ever you allow on earth, shall be allowed in your heaven and the kingdom of heaven is within you NOW. You are planting it everyday with the actions and words you speak, perfect rewards, for you get to sow and plant your own kind of heaven. Do you have peace? If not, then ask God to work in you and create in you a good heart so that the Peace of Jerusalem will be yours. If you are suffering torment and no rest, then you need to ask God where you are out of line with Christ/The Word so that you can repent and be forgiven and begin to measure up to your head/Christ so that He can give you rest. These things are the same buffeting that Paul had, for his old man hated, murdered and he had much work to be done in his clay body to overcome his flesh and form it suitable for God's work. If you feel something you are going to do is against God, even if it never says so in the Bible, then don't do it, for, for you it is wrong cause you have conscience of it and will be condemned by your con-science.
That is why if someone thinks that money in it's self is evil, then God will never give you money for that would only condemn you. He will not give you something that you feel is evil towards Him. Even though He knows that poverty and ill health is a curse, you have not been convinced that God provides abundantly and heals obedient ones as a good Father.

 

[4afaithfulone]

it seems the LAW is for the arrogant and came via Moses but the Gospel is for the humble and came via Jesus - we know not sin but by the Law which is our schoolmaster - twinc

Man in our fallen state can not keep God's law for we can't not obey it for we had unclean spirits guiding us until Christ's sacrifice and we were reunited with God's Spirit. They in the old covenant did not have this benefit.
Just looking at the law can not change anyone, but the Law is good. But Christ died to give us the Spirit whom writes it on our flesh tablet in our heart when we seek God's help so that we can be doers of the Word, not just hearers only. And then God will not longer need to remember our sins for they are for forgotten and we don't do them any more.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
KJV

 

[childeye]

See if this helps:
If someone comes to my house, there is no law, I am assuming they well do rightly in my home. But, if they begin to jump on the furniture, destroy things and act lawless with no common sense of how to act towards others, then a rule or law will be given them such as Please do not touch this, do not do that! And now where they had freedom, they in their lack of wisdom and common sense have now imprisoned their selves by laws that if they don't follow will cause them to receive condemnation, discipline and bondage, stifling their behavior.
Had they just knew how to do rightly, they would have no laws accumulated upon them.
We are under the law of Sowing and Reaping. What ever we choose to do to others, will be returned unto us! Perfect justice!
We have been set free in Christ from having to keep the whole law (613 laws), but the 10 commandments written in the Stone, are still and forever for they are the foundation laws for godly boundaries that keep us safe in God's blessings away from the curses. If you love others as you would want them to love you, then you will not lie, cheat, steal etc. And if you love God, you will not be putting anything or one above Him and His Word and doing these two things will fulfill the 10 commandments.
If you don't want a life of always being lied to, then don't lie to others, it you don't want some one to cheat you, then don't cheat others, if you want a good faithful spouse, then prove yourself faithful to your spouse for we shall all reap what we have sown as we are building our own king of heaven. This is the keys to the kingdom, what ever you allow on earth, shall be allowed in your heaven and the kingdom of heaven is within you NOW. You are planting it everyday with the actions and words you speak, perfect rewards, for you get to sow and plant your own kind of heaven. Do you have peace? If not, then ask God to work in you and create in you a good heart so that the Peace of Jerusalem will be yours. If you are suffering torment and no rest, then you need to ask God where you are out of line with Christ/The Word so that you can repent and be forgiven and begin to measure up to your head/Christ so that He can give you rest. These things are the same buffeting that Paul had, for his old man hated, murdered and he had much work to be done in his clay body to overcome his flesh and form it suitable for God's work. If you feel something you are going to do is against God, even if it never says so in the Bible, then don't do it, for, for you it is wrong cause you have conscience of it and will be condemned by your con-science.
That is why if someone thinks that money in it's self is evil, then God will never give you money for that would only condemn you. He will not give you something that you feel is evil towards Him. Even though He knows that poverty and ill health is a curse, you have not been convinced that God provides abundantly and heals obedient ones as a good Father.

An excellent post, full of common sense. And I would agree entirely except it is yet incomplete. For there is a phenomenon where the law is the strength of sin. 1 Corinthians 15:56

 

[childeye]

Man in our fallen state can not keep God's law for we can't not obey it for we had unclean spirits guiding us until Christ's sacrifice and we were reunited with God's Spirit. They in the old covenant did not have this benefit.
Just looking at the law can not change anyone, but the Law is good. But Christ died to give us the Spirit whom writes it on our flesh tablet in our heart when we seek God's help so that we can be doers of the Word, not just hearers only. And then God will not longer need to remember our sins for they are for forgotten and we don't do them any more.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
KJV

This is more complete, and it seems you anticipated my post 34. You posted this while I was still writing #34. I would ask you to elaborate on the mechanics of how God's Spirit accomplishes that which you describe above including why it was ever necessary. But instead I would direct you to my post #2, on the thread "conception and birth of believers". There I am anticipating a conversation about exactly that which pertains to why the law was ever necessary and why sin ever happened.

 

[4afaithfulone]

An excellent post, full of common sense. And I would agree entirely except it is yet incomplete. For there is a phenomenon where the law is the strength of sin.

Thank you, praise the Lord!
The reason that the law strengthens sin, is because the more we have to be told how to behave, being lawless within our selves, the more we feel we are not living up to expectations and the more sinful we feel and condemned we become.
That is why the law could never make us righteous, because it must be within us to do right, not just a bunch of do's and don'ts.
When we come out of Egypt(ungodly world) we have much to learn as spiritual babes and that is where the Spirit and the Word is needed to work within us to renew our minds to God's ways, then we don't need any laws over our head for we learn to be obedient to the first ones.
The more lawless man with no moral boundaries in their life break laws, there raises up another law to cover any unforeseen loop hole that hopefully will stop the lawless one. But the irony in this is that the lawless one whom this new law has caused to be exalted didn't heed the first law and will not heed the new one either, but the law abiding citizen who does obey the law, is now held captive under this new law even though they did nothing. So the added law was set up for the lawless who pays it no mind, yet it only effects the righteous for now they are held captive under it and now have part of their privileges taken away when they did nothing. We are seeing this happening all around us, they have to crack down on lawlessness by taking more and more of the freedoms from everyone, even if they are innocent. There must be law and order for those who are rebellious, yet a child of God who has learned how to do what is right in all situations by abiding in the Word and the Word abiding in them are set free from these as God sees us and is our Judge. We are not judged by man, it is our God whom judges our motives and actions, He is our rewarder. I am not saying to break civil laws, but that we use godly judgment.
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
KJV

 

[4afaithfulone]

This is more complete, and it seems you anticipated my post 34. You posted this while I was still writing #34. I would ask you to elaborate on the mechanics of how God's Spirit accomplishes that which you describe above including why it was ever necessary. But instead I would direct you to my post #2, on the thread "conception and birth of believers". There I am anticipating a conversation about exactly that which pertains to why the law was ever necessary and why sin ever happened.

Everything in God's creation must have boundaries for He did not create it to be in chaos and ruin. The family unit must have boundaries to keep them from dysfunctional families, the oceans must have boundaries to keep the water from flooding the earth. Animals have their boundaries to keep their seed pure, as should God's man. Sin happened because Eve was misinformed as to which tree was the forbidden tree, for she received her understanding from Adam, second hand, and not God as Adam had. And because of it, the serpent was able to deceived her, instead of correcting her.
We are called children of God, and as children we should not have had all the knowledge from eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil to recreate God's natural perfect and beautiful earth.
If you notice all nature is of God, while all technology, chemicals and stuff we have reconstructed from the natural things brought up from God's earth are MAN made and they are polluting our God given oceans, beaching the whales, sea life, corrupting this earth the animals, plants, trees, and our ways are being more and more effected, immoral, ungodly, self centered and we are even finding companions from the beasts, unlike Adam could not.
God did not give man dominion over one another, nor dominion over the skies or space. God gave us dominon over the earth and the animals, plants etc... to keep them in their ways. It was only after the fall that Cain created the first city and began to rule over man.
Those without understanding of God have set themselves up as God cloning man, even traveling up to the stars of heaven to be like their own self god to find a new place for man to live, He never gave us permission to do this, it is from eating for the forbidden tree who is the devil, just as the tree of life is Jesus/God's Word

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
KJV
Ezek 31:9 I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.
10 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;
11 I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness.
12 And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him.
13 Upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches:
KJV

Who is the last kingdom to rule in the image with the 10 toes and part clay(fleshly still) part iron(made firm in the Word) NORTH America!
When a country enters another country to conquer it, they bring there idols with them to that new country, Who is "Mystery Babylon" then?

 

[Choir Loft]

I guess my question is, and I think it would be Messianic Jews who could answer this best: if there is goodness in the law today, how much should be observed?

SIN
Sin is a great deal more serious than legalistic, immoral inaccuracy - 'missing the mark'. According to Genesis 3, it is the ultimate expression of hatred of God and it results in ultimate eternal - deserved - punishment.

The third chapter of Genesis is the temptation story - the root cause of the fall of man. In the story, God tells Adam and Eve to deny their desire to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil - to refrain from JUDGING GOD.

How does one perform an act of love toward God? Have you ever asked yourself that question? Can you send a Valentine card to Him through the mail, or FedEx a box of candy? Can you give Him a hug? No is the answer to all these questions. But God has told us what He accepts as an act of love. He has told us what He likes, what really floats His boat - trust and obedience.

So you see, Adam and Eve had a choice in the garden. Reciprocal love of God for them (and for us) means obedience and trust. Instead they threw it back in God's face and did what they wanted. This is what men and women have done ever since. We did it for so long that we forgot what God really asked of us, so He handed down a set of rules - the 10 commandments - otherwise known as THE LAW.

LAW & GRACE

I like to look at THE LAW as a mirror in the bathroom. The law shows us our sin just as a mirror reveals the dirt on our faces. Without the law or the mirror, we have no idea how bad we look. But the mirror cannot clean our faces and the law cannot absolve us of sin.

GRACE acts like soap and water to cleanse us of sin by means of the blood shed by Christ Jesus upon the cross.

Redemption, therefore requires the application of both law and grace just as the bathroom mirror and fragrant soap are employed to cleanse our faces.

I cannot imagine a bathroom without a mirror or a washcloth without soap, can you?
Neither can a sinner KNOW his sin and that he needs to be saved by GRACE.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[childeye]

Everything in God's creation must have boundaries for He did not create it to be in chaos and ruin. The family unit must have boundaries to keep them from dysfunctional families, the oceans must have boundaries to keep the water from flooding the earth. Animals have their boundaries to keep their seed pure, as should God's man. Sin happened because Eve was misinformed as to which tree was the forbidden tree, for she received her understanding from Adam, second hand, and not God as Adam had. And because of it, the serpent was able to deceived her, instead of correcting her.
We are called children of God, and as children we should not have had all the knowledge from eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil to recreate God's natural perfect and beautiful earth.
If you notice all nature is of God, while all technology, chemicals and stuff we have reconstructed from the natural things brought up from God's earth are MAN made and they are polluting our God given oceans, beaching the whales, sea life, corrupting this earth the animals, plants, trees, and our ways are being more and more effected, immoral, ungodly, self centered and we are even finding companions from the beasts, unlike Adam could not.
God did not give man dominion over one another, nor dominion over the skies or space. God gave us dominon over the earth and the animals, plants etc... to keep them in their ways. It was only after the fall that Cain created the first city and began to rule over man.
Those without understanding of God have set themselves up as God cloning man, even traveling up to the stars of heaven to be like their own self god to find a new place for man to live, He never gave us permission to do this, it is from eating for the forbidden tree who is the devil, just as the tree of life is Jesus/God's Word

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
KJV
Ezek 31:9 I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.
10 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;
11 I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness.
12 And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him.
13 Upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches:
KJV

Who is the last kingdom to rule in the image with the 10 toes and part clay(fleshly still) part iron(made firm in the Word) NORTH America!
When a country enters another country to conquer it, they bring there idols with them to that new country, Who is "Mystery Babylon" then?

I like your post. I agree with your use of scripture. I never heard about Eve mistaking the tree of good and evil for another tree. I think that may be plausible, except scripture doesn't strike me as saying that. For Satan said God was a liar to Eve as if she knew what tree she was about to eat from.

 

[childeye]

Who is "Mystery Babylon" then?

Where everything is bought and sold including the souls of men.