Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
What is the purpose of hell?
- Thread starter AAA
- Start date
R
Rick W
Guest
What's the purpose of being forever in the presence of the Father?
We have a two sided coin here.
We have a two sided coin here.
Rick W said:
Feel free to answer both questions then...
For instance, heaven could be a reward while hell could be a punishment. In other words, one could argue that hell (and heaven) serve the purpose of justice.
What do you think? I am asking to understand what Christians believe to be the purpose of hell.
AAA said:
Did you skip over how we reap what we sow?
That means we get what we deserve.
Punishment and rewards
Personally, I believe in eternal life and eternal death.
I'm simply trying to explain why people believe in hell.
If someone murders an innocent, he would spend the rest of his life in prison.
Of course, in this day and age, he'd get out and be free to kill again most likely.
But there I go....going off topic again.
I'm old...I have an excuse.
Sorry, but I have a hard time understanding your posts. Please write to me like I'm a 12 year old.
Does this mean that hell serves the purpose of justice?
Are you suggesting that you don't believe in hell, and that your views may not represent Christian views on the purpose of hell?
Please note: I am not asking why people believe in hell. I am asking what Christians believe the purpose of hell to be.
glorydaz said:
Does this mean that hell serves the purpose of justice?
glorydaz said:
Are you suggesting that you don't believe in hell, and that your views may not represent Christian views on the purpose of hell?
glorydaz said:
Please note: I am not asking why people believe in hell. I am asking what Christians believe the purpose of hell to be.
S
Solo
Guest
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed , into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred , and ye gave me no meat : I was thirsty , and ye gave me no drink : 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in : naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying , Lord, when saw we thee an hungred , or athirst , or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying , Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matthew 24:41-46 KJV
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned , but cast them down to hell , and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly ; 7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) 9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished : 10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not ; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2 Peter 2:4-12
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares , who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 I will therefore put you in remembrance , though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication , and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh , despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said , The Lord rebuke thee. 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves . 11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead , plucked up by the roots ; 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying , Behold , the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed , and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling [words], having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. 17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jude 1:3-18
Matthew 24:41-46 KJV
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned , but cast them down to hell , and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly ; 7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) 9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished : 10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not ; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2 Peter 2:4-12
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares , who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 I will therefore put you in remembrance , though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication , and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh , despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said , The Lord rebuke thee. 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves . 11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead , plucked up by the roots ; 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying , Behold , the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed , and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling [words], having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. 17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jude 1:3-18
Actually there are four words mistranslated hell and this still does not make the word hell anything but PAGAN; look at the original language. The word hell is NOT in the Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic the language the Bible was written in; but it comes from an Angle Saxon word “hel†meaning to bury. It is more then a mis-translation it a premeditated deliberate assault on scripture to in introduce the Teutonic pagan word
There are other translations like the Companion Bible King James Version, American Standard Version (1901), the Newberry Reference Bible (Still published by Kregal Publications), and the Riverside New Testament by Ballantine (1934) which contain footnotes, marginal readings and appendages which point out that several key Greek and Hebrew words regarding Hell have been MIStranslated by such Bible versions as the King James Bible. I have a list of Bibles which show the translations that contain the word Hell as well as the ones that don’t in the text is NOT exhaustive--we are discovering more translations all the time in which the translators did not feel justified in using the Teutonic pagan word Hell to translate the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek words Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus.
There are other translations like the Companion Bible King James Version, American Standard Version (1901), the Newberry Reference Bible (Still published by Kregal Publications), and the Riverside New Testament by Ballantine (1934) which contain footnotes, marginal readings and appendages which point out that several key Greek and Hebrew words regarding Hell have been MIStranslated by such Bible versions as the King James Bible. I have a list of Bibles which show the translations that contain the word Hell as well as the ones that don’t in the text is NOT exhaustive--we are discovering more translations all the time in which the translators did not feel justified in using the Teutonic pagan word Hell to translate the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek words Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus.
Puishment means to prune. Man does not have a freechoice to serve God. Yes he has a free choice to sin, but that is the way God creatred us with a curse. No one can be separated from God. He dwells everywhere.
David declared in Ps 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell (hades), behold, thou art there. 9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. 11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. 12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
KJV
David declared in Ps 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell (hades), behold, thou art there. 9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. 11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. 12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
KJV
Ramsey said:
You are assuming a goat is a non believer, all it is your assumption, look at the Greek; I see a goat as an immature believer (baby goat); who are separated because of their spiritual immaturity. Many are mature in their little religious box; but are immature spiritually; they have that immature goat nature.
Sheep Separated from Goats
Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divided his sheep from the goats:
The word sheep here is very relevant in that Jesus used it in other verses like My Sheep know my voice. A sheep is a full grow mature sheep.
Where on the other hand a goat or the Greek word (eriphos or kid; baby goat) So I see it as God separating his Sheep mature from His immature kids; spiritually speaking)
NT:2056
But according to these bias translators God is going to send a baby goat to everlasting fire.
Matt 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
So many of God’s people are goats and all they eat is garbage; in other words damnable heresies or heresies of damnation/condemnations/ all those heresies that condemn people to torture.
The rest of your post is about Satan and his messengers, I really could careless what happens to them.
Sheep Separated from Goats
Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divided his sheep from the goats:
The word sheep here is very relevant in that Jesus used it in other verses like My Sheep know my voice. A sheep is a full grow mature sheep.
Where on the other hand a goat or the Greek word (eriphos or kid; baby goat) So I see it as God separating his Sheep mature from His immature kids; spiritually speaking)
NT:2056
But according to these bias translators God is going to send a baby goat to everlasting fire.
Matt 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
So many of God’s people are goats and all they eat is garbage; in other words damnable heresies or heresies of damnation/condemnations/ all those heresies that condemn people to torture.
The rest of your post is about Satan and his messengers, I really could careless what happens to them.
Solo said:
S
Solo
Guest
The Hebrew Word "Sheol" is used 64 times in the Old Testament Scripture.Benoni said:
The English translators of the King James Version translated Sheol into the English word "Grave" 30 times, "Hell" 30 times, "Pit" 3 times. and "Lowest Hell" 1 time.
The English translators of the New King James Version translated Sheol into the English word "Grave" 25 times, "Hell" 18 times, "Sheol" 18 times, "Pit" 2 times, and "Lowest Hell" 1 time.
The English translators of the New International Version translated Sheol into the English word "Grave" 56 times, "Death" 6 times, "Realm of Death" 1 time, and "Depths" 1 time.
The Hebrew Word "Sheol" is translated into Greek as "Hades." The Greek Word "Hades" is used 11 times in the New Testament Scripture.
The English translators of the King James Version translated "Hades" into the English word "Hell" 10 times, and "Grave" 1 time.
Sheol/Hades is the proper place-name for “death,†“the pit,†and “the realm of the dead.†Although it includes the place for both the conscious “soul†and the “grave†for the body, it never stands for either of them alone. While Sheol/Hades is the place-name, “death†is the general description, and “the pit†is the geographical description. All three terms contain souls and graves.
Sheol/Hades is the place where the dead go. The dead bodies go to a portion of Sheol/Hades, the grave, and the souls of the dead go to one of two places in Sheol/Hades as Jesus describes in Luke 16:19-31; the place of torment for the unrighteous dead, and paradise for the righteous dead. After Jesus' resurrection, He led those that were in the portion of Sheol/Hades called paradise to heaven. Now those that are born again go to be with the Lord in Heaven instead of Sheol/Hades.
Hugo
Member
The orthodox protestant view is that it is punishment for sin, and that it is the punishment that we all deserve as sinners. Many Christians think that there may be varying degrees of punishment depending on sins committed. A substantial number of believers are Annihilationists and believe that Hell is not eternal but that sinners will perish completely. Lastly, a growing number of Christians are becoming Universalists, believing that Hell is primarily corrective, and will not be eternal, and that all sinners will eventually go to be with God.AAA said:
S
Solo
Guest
The original Greek word that is translated into English as "Eternal" and "Everlasting" is ???????. This word is not mistranslated; rather it is difficult to put into finite human words the dimensional frame of reference of "Eternity," the "Everlasting." God transcends time, and is not bound by the limitations of time; therefore, it is not within human understanding to define that which is outside of time. The word ???????, "Eternal, Everlasting" is as close as we can get to a proper definition; and closer to the meaning then the word "Age," as "Age" gives the impression of an end can be arrived at. However, we can determine what the meaning of this word means by the context in which it is used.
Let us look at a verse of Scripture that Jesus reveals the end result of those who believe and those who do not believe. Jesus uses the same word, ???????, "Eternal"
Notice that Jesus uses the same Greek word to define the length of punishment and life are identical periods outside of time; eternal, forever, everlasting, etc. There is no end to "everlasting punishment," nor is there any end to "life eternal."
Let us look at a verse of Scripture that Jesus reveals the end result of those who believe and those who do not believe. Jesus uses the same word, ???????, "Eternal"
King James Version said:
Notice that Jesus uses the same Greek word to define the length of punishment and life are identical periods outside of time; eternal, forever, everlasting, etc. There is no end to "everlasting punishment," nor is there any end to "life eternal."