Bible Study WHAT IS THE WATER IN JOHN 3:5

[GodsGrace]

This is John 3:5 NASB
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless * one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot * enter into the kingdom of God.


Some believe water to be:
The word of God
Baptismal water
Natural birth

There might be other understandings that are not listed.

I tend to go with either natural birth or baptismal water.
Either can seem correct to me.

Please state what you believe and why.
Appreciated...

 

[Hidden In Him]

This is John 3:5 NASB
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless * one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot * enter into the kingdom of God.


Some believe water to be:
The word of God
Baptismal water
Natural birth

There might be other understandings that are not listed.

I tend to go with either natural birth or baptismal water.
Either can seem correct to me.

Please state what you believe and why.
Appreciated...

Water baptism IMO, sister.

But what happens is this: He was speaking to a Pharisee who had come on behalf of the Pharisees, and the overriding point was that they would need to die to their old religious life and live anew unto God. Many seem to miss the context and turn it into a doctrinal statement about you and I today. They understood what baptisms represented back then. A man was taking on an entirely different life by getting baptized. Does it mean no one today can be saved without water baptism? Most don’t even understand the significance. The message to take away from it is that you cannot enter the kingdom of God without dying to your old life and becoming born again. Water baptism without the conscious decision to do this is worthless, and by the same token, the man who truly begins a new life fully devoted to serving Christ has fulfilled the law, whether he is baptized in water or not.

My two cents,
- H

 

[Freedomtofly]

My study Bible links this passage to Ezekiel ( which Nicodemus would have known in his role of a Pharisee- the promise of a new covenant )
Ezekiel 36: 25-27
I will sprinkle clean water on you and you shall be clean from all your unclean mess and from all your idols. I will cleanse you and I will give you a new heart and a new Spirit i will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh and I will put my Spirit within ou and cause you to walk in my statutes.

From external covenant to an Internal one.
So water is the cleansing by God and Spirit / New heart is a rebirth.

 

[GodsGrace]

Water baptism IMO, sister.

But what happens is this: He was speaking to a Pharisee who had come on behalf of the Pharisees, and the overriding point was that they would need to die to their old religious life and live anew unto God. Many seem to miss the context and turn it into a doctrinal statement about you and I today. They understood what baptisms represented back then. A man was taking on an entirely different life by getting baptized. Does it mean no one today can be saved without water baptism? Most don’t even understand the significance. The message to take away from it is that you cannot enter the kingdom of God without dying to your old life and becoming born again. Water baptism without the conscious decision to do this is worthless, and by the same token, the man who truly begins a new life fully devoted to serving Christ has fulfilled the law, whether he is baptized in water or not.

My two cents,
- H

Hidden,
I was with you until the very last sentence.

You said: A MAN WAS TAKING ON AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT LIFE. (at that time).

OK

I also believe a person is already reborn even before water baptism.

And, yes, we cannot see the Kingdom of God without this NEW PERSON becoming alive, and water baptism without making a conscious decision is of no practical use.

So do you believe that being "born of water" means being fully devoted to serving Christ?
This would agree with the water being a spiritual rebirth by the Word of God. (option a).

 

[GodsGrace]

My study Bible links this passage to Ezekiel ( which Nicodemus would have known in his role of a Pharisee- the promise of a new covenant )
Ezekiel 36: 25-27
I will sprinkle clean water on you and you shall be clean from all your unclean mess and from all your idols. I will cleanse you and I will give you a new heart and a new Spirit i will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh and I will put my Spirit within ou and cause you to walk in my statutes.

From external covenant to an Internal one.
So water is the cleansing by God and Spirit / New heart is a rebirth.

Hi Freedomtofly,

So is the water baptism??

Thanks for your reply.

 

[follower]

Please state what you believe and why.

Trust Jesus and ask the Father for His Understanding , remembering that man's religion is vain, futile and harmful/deadly.
As Jesus Says Clearly, Jesus' Words are spirit and they are life. Never judge by what is vain, futile, visible, that you can see with carnal eyes or hear with carnal ears of flesh.

 

[GodsGrace]

Trust Jesus and ask the Father for His Understanding , remembering that man's religion is vain, futile and harmful/deadly.
As Jesus Says Clearly, Jesus' Words are spirit and they are life. Never judge by what is vain, futile, visible, that you can see with carnal eyes or hear with carnal ears of flesh.

Well follower,
Actually it's been quite a few years that I've been studying our faith.
Try more than 50.
Shocking isn't it?
Still haven't figured out EVERYTHING.....

I used to think it was physical birth.
Jesus said we had to be BORN AGAIN....
You know
born once (the flesh)
born again (the spirit)

Two denominations with which I've studied agree to this option.

Another denomination from which I've learned does not.

Since you've asked God Father for understanding...
would you care to share what your belief is regarding this?

If not, no problem.
God bless you.

 

[Free]

This is John 3:5 NASB
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless * one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot * enter into the kingdom of God.


Some believe water to be:
The word of God
Baptismal water
Natural birth

There might be other understandings that are not listed.

I tend to go with either natural birth or baptismal water.
Either can seem correct to me.

Please state what you believe and why.
Appreciated...

Not exactly sure what it means, although I suspect it's an allusion to the baptism of John, perhaps as a reference to repentance and not necessarily water baptism itself. I don't see how it can refer to "The word of God," however that is defined.

But, what it likely doesn't refer to is natural birth. First, it would go without saying that someone has to be physically born into order to also be born of the Spirit. Second, it would mean that all aborted babies can never enter the kingdom of God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not exactly sure what it means, although I suspect it's an allusion to the baptism of John, perhaps as a reference to repentance and not necessarily water baptism itself. I don't see how it can refer to "The word of God," however that is defined.

But, what it likely doesn't refer to is natural birth. First, it would go without saying that someone has to be physically born into order to also be born of the Spirit. Second, it would mean that all aborted babies can never enter the kingdom of God.

Agree.
But not sure about baptism.
(and I can't justify why-or I'd know for sure what I believe).

I've come to believe that it probably is not physical birth...
for the reason you've stated...of course someone has to be born first.

As to babies....hmmm, what good is baptism if a person does not believe?
Babies are innocent. So...I've never taken that into account.
But let's not change the topic (which is also very interesting).

 

[Freedomtofly]

Hi GodsGrace
I don’t think it is baptism as that is an external thing that we do in order to publicly show our faith ( or at least that’s how I have always seen it )
From the passage in Ezekiel, It sounds as if it is Gods work within us, cleansing us.
But I recognise that I am not a theologian- I added the reference because I hadn’t considered the passage in Ezekiel being linked to Jesus meeting Nicodemus.

 

[Freedomtofly]

I must admit that despite being a Christian for over 45years I still don’t fully understand some passages , never been very good at explaining things sometimes. I know I am born again, and for me that’s always meant that the spiritual side of me has come alive. I know I have been washed by the blood of Christ ect , redeemed saved ect. And yet this conversation with Nicodemus still has me unsure about what the water is

 

[Hidden In Him]

So do you believe that being "born of water" means being fully devoted to serving Christ?
This would agree with the water being a spiritual rebirth by the Word of God. (option a).

No, for the ones He spoke this to I think it meant literal baptism in water, as it was a custom associated with starting a new life. I just don't think it applies to us today like it did to them, any more than women wearing head coverings or slaves obeying their masters. It was a custom associated with a different time. The spiritual reality of what that custom represented is what ultimately mattered then and still matters today.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi GodsGrace
I don’t think it is baptism as that is an external thing that we do in order to publicly show our faith ( or at least that’s how I have always seen it )
From the passage in Ezekiel, It sounds as if it is Gods work within us, cleansing us.
But I recognise that I am not a theologian- I added the reference because I hadn’t considered the passage in Ezekiel being linked to Jesus meeting Nicodemus.

Thanks!
Sounds good.

 

[GodsGrace]

I must admit that despite being a Christian for over 45years I still don’t fully understand some passages , never been very good at explaining things sometimes. I know I am born again, and for me that’s always meant that the spiritual side of me has come alive. I know I have been washed by the blood of Christ ect , redeemed saved ect. And yet this conversation with Nicodemus still has me unsure about what the water is

Welcome to the Club!
This is why it's good to discuss.
Follow along and let's see if we could become better informed...but what you know is already sufficient.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, for the ones He spoke this to I think it meant literal baptism in water, as it was a custom associated with starting a new life. I just don't think it applies to us today like it did to them, any more than women wearing head coverings or slaves obeying their masters. It was a custom associated with a different time. The spiritual reality of what that custom represented is what ultimately mattered then and still matters today.

Yes. It does seem to be baptism.
So much disagreement about this.

Thanks!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Yes. It does seem to be baptism.
So much disagreement about this.

Thanks!

Granted, I think we should uphold the rite of water baptism until Christ comes because it teaches a powerful truth, one we need to live out every day just as Paul taught. But the question usually comes up about is it necessary for salvation based on verses like this, and that's where I think reading it in context (like with all verses of scripture) needs to come into play.

 

[Freedomtofly]

Hi GodsGrace
I don’t think it is baptism as that is an external thing that we do in order to publicly show our faith ( or at least that’s how I have always seen it )
From the passage in Ezekiel, It sounds as if it is Gods work within us, cleansing us.
But I recognise that I am not a theologian- I added the reference because I hadn’t considered the passage in Ezekiel being linked to Jesus meeting Nicodemus.

Thinking about this, and weighing it up against what Hidden In Him has conveyed below, perhaps I have not thought about the cultural context at the time.

No, for the ones He spoke this to I think it meant literal baptism in water, as it was a custom associated with starting a new life. I just don't think it applies to us today like it did to them, any more than women wearing head coverings or slaves obeying their masters. It was a custom associated with a different time. The spiritual reality of what that custom represented is what ultimately mattered then and still matters today.

Do you think it changed once the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost ?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Thinking about this, and weighing it up against what Hidden In Him has conveyed below, perhaps I have not thought about the cultural context at the time.

Do you think it changed once the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost ?

No, and good morning sister.

They were still baptizing after Pentecost, but it's just that I don't think the physical act was ever necessary for salvation. Otherwise they would have had a problem with Jesus telling the thief on the cross, "This day you will be with Me in Paradise." The thief never had the time to be water baptized before his death, so it cannot be an absolute requirement.

 

[Freedomtofly]

No, and good morning sister.

They were still baptizing after Pentecost, but it's just that I don't think the physical act was ever necessary for salvation. Otherwise they would have had a problem with Jesus telling the thief on the cross, "This day you will be with Me in Paradise." The thief never had the time to be water baptized before his death, so it cannot be an absolute requirement.

It’s okay I realise they were still baptising after Pentecost, but I wondered if it changed to being a public witness rather than something they had to do. The Ezekiel quote relays that The Holy Spirit coming into peoples hearts was the new covenant, it brought a change from external relationship through rituals to an internal relationship.

 

[Freedomtofly]

Good morning , although I think it must be Good night for you