-
-
-
-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
-
-
-
-
What is 'truth'
- Thread starter Classik
- Start date
Danus
Member
- Jan 17, 2010
- 3,674
- 142
That's a good question Classik. One recorded as asked of Jesus by Pilate, in John 18:38, after Christ tells him "the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."I think the answer is right there.
I looked up the definition of "truth" for this. Here is what I found. truth noun /tro͞oTH/; The The quality or state of being true:
It's not easy for us to define truth because when we attempt it we are faced with a paradox of truth. For example, We might say "Truth" is that which conforms to reality, fact, or actuality. This is fine, but this basic definition is not complete because its definition is open to interpretation and a wide variety of applications; as to what is reality, or fact?
When you consider what Christ said about truth and how Pilate asked the very question "what is truth?" coupled with what Christ says in John 14:6; “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." it seems clear that for the Christian truth is found in Christ and those who are on the side of truth listen to it, in this case "listen' is to accept. That's why Pilate asked the question "what is truth" because truth to him was a paradox, it was elusive and subjective, it was relevant to his own reality, unlike those in Christ, who see Christ as truth.
This is why we see many people, proclaiming to be Christians and non-Christian, fall for deception, false teachings, cults and other ideas contrary to God, because truth is elusive to them, it is subjective, and relevant to their own reality, and they often move from one truth to another as they constantly adjust their own reality to better suit truth as they themselves have defined it. they fail to see Christ as the truth, or they reject Christ as truth, or they define the truth of Christ as they want it to be.
We are warned of this. Colossians 2:8 (NIV) <sup class="versenum">8 </sup>See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
Note that last part.
We can define truth anyway we want, but Christ says He is a witness to truth and that He is the truth, and that those on the side of truth accept Him as truth. That is truth, but then again, for many it is not. But, as Christians truth is not a broad definition. It is narrow. It is a single point of contention focused only on Christ. It does not deviate into subjective realities. It's not always known or complete for many trying to define it, but it does not have to be because the object of truth is Christ, rather than themselves.
I looked up the definition of "truth" for this. Here is what I found. truth noun /tro͞oTH/; The The quality or state of being true:
It's not easy for us to define truth because when we attempt it we are faced with a paradox of truth. For example, We might say "Truth" is that which conforms to reality, fact, or actuality. This is fine, but this basic definition is not complete because its definition is open to interpretation and a wide variety of applications; as to what is reality, or fact?
When you consider what Christ said about truth and how Pilate asked the very question "what is truth?" coupled with what Christ says in John 14:6; “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." it seems clear that for the Christian truth is found in Christ and those who are on the side of truth listen to it, in this case "listen' is to accept. That's why Pilate asked the question "what is truth" because truth to him was a paradox, it was elusive and subjective, it was relevant to his own reality, unlike those in Christ, who see Christ as truth.
This is why we see many people, proclaiming to be Christians and non-Christian, fall for deception, false teachings, cults and other ideas contrary to God, because truth is elusive to them, it is subjective, and relevant to their own reality, and they often move from one truth to another as they constantly adjust their own reality to better suit truth as they themselves have defined it. they fail to see Christ as the truth, or they reject Christ as truth, or they define the truth of Christ as they want it to be.
We are warned of this. Colossians 2:8 (NIV) <sup class="versenum">8 </sup>See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
Note that last part.
We can define truth anyway we want, but Christ says He is a witness to truth and that He is the truth, and that those on the side of truth accept Him as truth. That is truth, but then again, for many it is not. But, as Christians truth is not a broad definition. It is narrow. It is a single point of contention focused only on Christ. It does not deviate into subjective realities. It's not always known or complete for many trying to define it, but it does not have to be because the object of truth is Christ, rather than themselves.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mountain Man
Member
- Mar 17, 2013
- 469
- 0
Truth is defined by the one who created the Universe in which truth matters ands is of consequence.....God.
G
Guest
Guest
Truth to me is walking in purity and holiness of the Holy Spirit, because the Father is the one who created me and he knows what's best.
- Jun 21, 2009
- 10,783
- 414
What if you and I were to agree to call the color of the sky "Green". Would it not then be, for us, true to say that it is green?
Truth in that sense is relative. Words don't matter. What matters is the oneness of heart in the choice of labels and what the symbols we call words mean. Those types of Philosophical discussions aside, what is truth? The ancient Greeks considered this matter to be of utmost importance and perhaps the discussions found in academia of that day influenced the Question that was addressed to the Word of Truth Himself.
The Lord's frank admission that He is the definition of truth encompases the fact the He alone has heard what God has declared and He alone is qualified to speak on the subject. Notice that Pilot, confronted by this truth said, "I can find no fault in him," and sought to have the innocent man who stood accused released through tradition of exchange. There was a prevailing Passover custom in Jerusalem that allowed or required Pilate, the praefectus or governor of Judaea, to commute one prisoner's death sentence by popular acclaim. The insurrectionary whom Pontius Pilate freed at the Passover feast in Jerusalem was offered to the crowd that had gathered instead of Jesus Christ because there was no fault found in him. Little did he know that his inability to find fault would be considered proof that Jesus, The Christ, was qualified as "The Lamb of God," being found to be without spot or blemish. To me it is remarkable that this was done at the Feast of Passover, such a 'coincidence' is yet another piece of the evidence for the Faith and Trust in God that we share as well as the awe of our God who speaks the end from the beginning.
Truth in that sense is relative. Words don't matter. What matters is the oneness of heart in the choice of labels and what the symbols we call words mean. Those types of Philosophical discussions aside, what is truth? The ancient Greeks considered this matter to be of utmost importance and perhaps the discussions found in academia of that day influenced the Question that was addressed to the Word of Truth Himself.
The Lord's frank admission that He is the definition of truth encompases the fact the He alone has heard what God has declared and He alone is qualified to speak on the subject. Notice that Pilot, confronted by this truth said, "I can find no fault in him," and sought to have the innocent man who stood accused released through tradition of exchange. There was a prevailing Passover custom in Jerusalem that allowed or required Pilate, the praefectus or governor of Judaea, to commute one prisoner's death sentence by popular acclaim. The insurrectionary whom Pontius Pilate freed at the Passover feast in Jerusalem was offered to the crowd that had gathered instead of Jesus Christ because there was no fault found in him. Little did he know that his inability to find fault would be considered proof that Jesus, The Christ, was qualified as "The Lamb of God," being found to be without spot or blemish. To me it is remarkable that this was done at the Feast of Passover, such a 'coincidence' is yet another piece of the evidence for the Faith and Trust in God that we share as well as the awe of our God who speaks the end from the beginning.
Danus
Member
- Jan 17, 2010
- 3,674
- 142
I guess we might need to define justice as well. Do we mean Truth, Justice, and the American way? or God's Truth and Justice? Yes, I'm being slightly sarcastic, but I put the two ideas together because they are often confused.
We find many people in the church who worship "America", or other man-made constructs, as if it represents God Himself. So, when we speak of what is true, or right we have to make the distinction of the object of truth, and not just a mere reflection of truth.
This is to say that while, for example, America might be in some ways, perhaps many perhaps not, a reflection of Gods truth, in and of itself it is not. So when we think of Justice and truth, we need to make sure we're speaking of the same object.
I am a big fan of crime drama. I watch Dateline, 20/20, real life cold case files, all those shows.
. The reason I am drawn to them so much is because they expose the true nature of man, the sinful side of us all. Often times the victims are described as the innocent, and the perpetrator is described as evil. The police and the investigators are bent on finding the truth so that justice can prevail. But, what type of justice are we talking about? Is it real justice, or a reflection of justice? Let's break it down this way; A man commits murder, hides the body to hide the truth. The body is found and an investigation ensues to find the truth. The man is caught and a trial is held to reveal the truth and administer justice. The man is found guilty based on the evidence and sentenced to some form of punishment. This type of truth and justice can be said to be a reflection of God's truth and justice, but it's not a form of Gods truth and justice, because there are many factors about Gods truth and justice that are left out.
In God's truth and justice there are no innocent people. Everyone deserves Gods Justice. We should not get this confused with man's justice which is about fairness and social order.
When we speak of Gods justice we are speaking about an angry God who has stored up wrath against all mankind that is His justice, but also a God of love peace and mercy, that is his truth. Often when we think of ourselves and Gods justice, we think of ourselves as innocent, like people in a court room looking down on the man who committed a crime. We didn't commit the crime, he did. We don't see ourselves as deserving any punishment, but what would happen if the judge in that court room said to the man on trial for murder; "I know you killed that person and hid the body to hide the truth, but you are forgiven. I have decided to give you mercy." ........:
....we'd be outraged! People in the court would take to the streets to have that judge removed. Let's back up and say that the man on trial broke down and admitted to his crime in a heart felt plea for mercy and then was released? Would that make the crowd in the court room OK with it? ...I'd say NO. It's not justice they really want, it;'s fairness. Yet that would be a more accurate reflection of Gods truth wouldn't it? On the one hand we all deserve God's punishment justly so. No one is innocent under Gods truth, all deserve His Justice, but he offers mercy to some and justice to others, and we have a problem with that just like we'd have a problem with a judge who allows a murderer to go free. It's not fair. God's justice is uncommon to us. I like what you said in your quote.
You are correct. Not all justice is defined as justice among mankind, but I'd argue that Gods justice is just.
As a reformed Christian, in my theology, one who believes that God chooses whom he will save by His own will to do so, I was once asked if I'd be surprised if I found myself in Hell thinking I'm saved from Hell? My answer is NO. I would not be surprised. Frankly I'll be surprised when I get to Heaven. I deserve Hell. I know that. I am aware of that. That would be justice. I don't deserve Heaven, I never did , I never will, and no matter how "good" I think I am, or try to be....I still don't deserve Heaven, but I am aware of this. This fact is the truth.
We are all under Gods justice. Romans 1:18-32 (NIV)<sup> </sup><sup class="versenum">18 </sup>The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, <sup class="versenum">19 </sup>since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. This does not just apply to people who willfully sin. This applies to the very nature of man, the very core of what he is.
In prisons all over the world, you will find two types of people; 1 Those who say they deserve their punishment, and 2. those who say they don't. If you ask people who are not in a prison for punishment if they deserve to be, they will say they don't. You might find one or two who say otherwise but I doubt it.
In churches and religious institutions all over the world you will find two types, 1. those who say they deserve Hell, and 2 those that say they don't, and if you ask people who are not part of the church if they deserve Hell, the majority will say they don't. So, we have people who belong to the church and people who do not belong to the church both thinking they do not deserve Hell. That is fascinating when you consider truth and justice. God says of all of them; Deuteronomy 32:35 (NIV)<sup class="versenum"> 35 </sup>It is mine to avenge; I will repay. In due time their foot will slip; their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them.”
To me, seeking Gods truth is knowing the truth of myself as God has revealed it. I don't have to seek his justice, because that is perfectly in line to knowing the truth about myself. Justice would simply follow His truth. I could hope for his mercy. I could beg for it, plead with God, but to do that is to know first that I need His mercy because if I don't think I need mercy, then I must think I'm innocent, and if I think I'm innocent then I don't think deserve justice. But, I know I deserve justice. I know I'm not innocent. I deserve just punishment for the sinner I am, and I would never understand this at all, had God not reveled his mercy to me first.
- Jun 21, 2009
- 10,783
- 414
Another thought about "Justice" comes when we consider a balanced scale. The scale does not tip to one side or the other. On first glance this 'view' of Justice may seen to be similar to what our brother Danus has termed the ideal of "Truth, Justice and the American Way". When we shift our point of view from that of self and seek to look at the conversation between Father and Son as shown in the Word of Truth there comes a new light.
Consider why it was that Jesus endured the shame of the cross.
Consider the Promise that was made to that man. That one man. What were his dreams, his heart's desire? Hebrews 12:2 speaks to this.
Know that God takes no pleasure in denying a man the desire of his heart. 1Tim 2:4
This is Justice. That the Love that God has for His Son is also shared with those who are willing so that we may abide in that love and be conformed to that love and so that the prayer of Jesus is answered in us; we know not what we shall be but we shall be like him.
Render God His due.
Consider why it was that Jesus endured the shame of the cross.
Consider the Promise that was made to that man. That one man. What were his dreams, his heart's desire? Hebrews 12:2 speaks to this.
Know that God takes no pleasure in denying a man the desire of his heart. 1Tim 2:4
Heb 12:21-25 said:
This is Justice. That the Love that God has for His Son is also shared with those who are willing so that we may abide in that love and be conformed to that love and so that the prayer of Jesus is answered in us; we know not what we shall be but we shall be like him.
Render God His due.
Last edited by a moderator:
Danus
Member
- Jan 17, 2010
- 3,674
- 142
Gods justice for evil itself surely. Lest that's how I'd think of it.
wonderful posts:nod