What kind of a Christian are we?

[CFrancis]

What does it mean to be a christian? We read the teachings of Jesus in the bible, sometimes daily, but do we practice them? True, it can be difficult to apply His teachings in a world that is fundamentally opposed to them, and that would even condemn us for doing so, but if we aren't willing to suffer the reproach of following Jesus, can we really call ourselves Christians?

The way I see it is that if we don't apply His teachings in our lives we have chosen to join the masses on the broad road to hell. But the worst scenario is that we read His word, call ourselves a 'Christian', yet do not put His word into practice. This camps us with the lukewarm people shouting 'Lord Lord' but not doing what the Lord has commanded (Luke 6:46). This lukewarm hypocrisy will have us well and truly spewed out of God's mouth.

Perhaps examining what kind of christian we are is the same as asking ourselves what kind of seed we are, as in the parable of the sower. Here we are told that there will be seeds who fall among thorns - are we more concerned about the cares of the world than we are about the truth? Or are we the seed that has no depth of soil, who last for a while but sell out at the first sign of persecution and trouble? Jesus said that it is those who hear the word, who understand the word, and who keep the word, who will bring forth fruit (Luke 8:15). He also said that we are foolish builders if we hear His word but do not obey it - we are building on sand: the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it (Matt 7:27). When persecution/trouble comes - which it will - we are only deceiving ourselves if we think we are going to endure it without having prepared. Obeying what Jesus says and being prepared are one and the same.

So, what kind of a 'Christian' are we?

 

[WIP]

What about immature Christians?

 

[JLB]

What about immature Christians?

They need to be taught by those who are older and more experienced in the Lord.


JLB

 

[childeye]

To me the parable of the sower is not about what kind of seed we are, but what kind of soil we are. What kind of Christian we are is appropriately framed as an issue about how mature or immature we are in the development of the seed that is Christ. I feel WIP provided a succinct answer.

In my view, the opposite force to development of the seed all falls under the umbrella of vanity.

 

[JLB]

To me the parable of the sower is not about what kind of seed we are, but what kind of soil we are.

Yes.
We are not the Seed, but the soil, that is to say, our heart is likened to the various types of soil.

What kind of Christian we are is appropriately framed as an issue about how mature or immature we are in the development of the seed that is Christ.

Also, we need to consider that this development may indeed come to an end, in which the Seed never comes to fruition.

This occurs when the believing ceases.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


It's clear that when the believing stops, the plant withers and dies.


JLB

 

[childeye]

Yes.
We are not the Seed, but the soil, that is to say, our heart is likened to the various types of soil.



Also, we need to consider that this development may indeed come to an end, in which the Seed never comes to fruition.

This occurs when the believing ceases.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


It's clear that when the believing stops, the plant withers and dies.


JLB

Of course you are correct. But then I would point out that the heart has much to do with the development of the seed. And deeper still, that we as individuals are not in control of what kind of heart we start out with. Keeping with the analogy of the heart being soil, I believe there must first be some forethought by God in preparing a heart for proper implantation. The soil must be tilled and made fertile ground by some means, probably ordered in the events of our lives. I see a big picture here, where God has a plan that incorporates all things in time.

After all since this is all about belief and degrees of that belief, it would help to define what that belief specifically is in. Since the object of this belief must overwhelm the devil, tribulations that come, and the cares of the world, I would say that it has to do with the depth of the realization as to the importance of God's Image in conjunction with the outcome of our reasoning.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

What does it mean to be a christian? We read the teachings of Jesus in the bible, sometimes daily, but do we practice them? True, it can be difficult to apply His teachings in a world that is fundamentally opposed to them, and that would even condemn us for doing so, but if we aren't willing to suffer the reproach of following Jesus, can we really call ourselves Christians?

The way I see it is that if we don't apply His teachings in our lives we have chosen to join the masses on the broad road to hell. But the worst scenario is that we read His word, call ourselves a 'Christian', yet do not put His word into practice. This camps us with the lukewarm people shouting 'Lord Lord' but not doing what the Lord has commanded (Luke 6:46). This lukewarm hypocrisy will have us well and truly spewed out of God's mouth.

Perhaps examining what kind of christian we are is the same as asking ourselves what kind of seed we are, as in the parable of the sower. Here we are told that there will be seeds who fall among thorns - are we more concerned about the cares of the world than we are about the truth? Or are we the seed that has no depth of soil, who last for a while but sell out at the first sign of persecution and trouble? Jesus said that it is those who hear the word, who understand the word, and who keep the word, who will bring forth fruit (Luke 8:15). He also said that we are foolish builders if we hear His word but do not obey it - we are building on sand: the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it (Matt 7:27). When persecution/trouble comes - which it will - we are only deceiving ourselves if we think we are going to endure it without having prepared. Obeying what Jesus says and being prepared are one and the same.

So, what kind of a 'Christian' are we?

Who are you?
Why don't you introduce yourself before you go grouping us together as Christians.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi CFrancis and welcome to CF.net,

Very good post, except the part about the parable of the sower. The parable is not so much about the seed, but rather where it is sown, or in other words how others receive it or reject it.

 

[JLB]

After all since this is all about belief and degrees of that belief, it would help to define what that belief specifically is

That would be a good start.

Here is a simple word definition to start off.

• However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 1 Timothy 1:16

Believe - Strong's G4100 - pisteuō

The KJV translates Strongs G4100 in the following manner: believe (239x),commit unto (4x), commit to (one's) trust (1x), be committed unto (1x), be put in trust with (1x), be commit to one's trust (1x), believer (1x).

1. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
   1. of the thing believed
      1. to credit, have confidence
   2. in a moral or religious reference
      1. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
      2. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
      3. mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
2. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
   1. to be intrusted with a thing
      

• But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:39

Believe - Strong's - G4102 - pistis

The KJV translates Strongs G4102 in the following manner: faith (239x),assurance (1x), believe (with G1537) (1x), belief (1x), them that believe (1x),fidelity (1x).

1. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
   
   1. relating to God
      1. the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
   2. relating to Christ
      1. a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
   3. the religious beliefs of Christians
   4. belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
2. fidelity, faithfulness
   1. the character of one who can be relied on
      

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 1 Timothy 4:1-3

Believe - Strong's G4103 - pistos

The KJV translates Strongs G4103 in the following manner: faithful (53x),believe (6x), believing (2x), true (2x), faithfully (1x), believer (1x), sure (1x), not translated (1x).

1. trusty, faithful
   1. of persons who show themselves faithful in the transaction of business, the execution of commands, or the discharge of official duties
   2. one who kept his plighted faith, worthy of trust
   3. that can be relied on
2. easily persuaded
   1. believing, confiding, trusting
   2. in the NT one who trusts in God's promises
      1. one who is convinced that Jesus has been raised from the dead
      2. one who has become convinced that Jesus is the Messiah and author of salvation
         

Unbelief on the other hand is also disobedience, and are used synonymously in the NT.

Belief carries the idea of commit, trust and obey as being faithful.

In other words Adam believed Satan, therefore he disobeyed God, and obeyed Satan.


JLB

 

[childeye]

That would be a good start.

Here is a simple word definition to start off.

• However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 1 Timothy 1:16

Believe - Strong's G4100 - pisteuō

The KJV translates Strongs G4100 in the following manner: believe (239x),commit unto (4x), commit to (one's) trust (1x), be committed unto (1x), be put in trust with (1x), be commit to one's trust (1x), believer (1x).

1. 
   
   
   • to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
     1. of the thing believed
        1. to credit, have confidence
     2. in a moral or religious reference
        1. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
        2. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
        3. mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
   • to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
     1. to be intrusted with a thing

• 
  
  
  • But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:39

Believe - Strong's - G4102 - pistis

The KJV translates Strongs G4102 in the following manner: faith (239x),assurance (1x), believe (with G1537) (1x), belief (1x), them that believe (1x),fidelity (1x).

1. 
   
   
   • conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
     1. relating to God
        1. the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
     2. relating to Christ
        1. a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
     3. the religious beliefs of Christians
     4. belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
   • fidelity, faithfulness
     1. the character of one who can be relied on

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 1 Timothy 4:1-3

Believe - Strong's G4103 - pistos

The KJV translates Strongs G4103 in the following manner: faithful (53x),believe (6x), believing (2x), true (2x), faithfully (1x), believer (1x), sure (1x), not translated (1x).

1. 
   
   
   • trusty, faithful
     1. of persons who show themselves faithful in the transaction of business, the execution of commands, or the discharge of official duties
     2. one who kept his plighted faith, worthy of trust
     3. that can be relied on
   • easily persuaded
     1. believing, confiding, trusting
     2. in the NT one who trusts in God's promises
        1. one who is convinced that Jesus has been raised from the dead
        2. one who has become convinced that Jesus is the Messiah and author of salvation

Unbelief on the other hand is also disobedience, and are used synonymously in the NT.

Belief carries the idea of commit, trust and obey as being faithful.

In other words Adam believed Satan, therefore he disobeyed God, and obeyed Satan.


JLB

That's a very thorough description of belief. I particularly am interested in "what we are believing in". I find the scripture 1 Timothy 1:16 to be a good choice because it speaks of the longsuffering of our Lord, which both describes his demeanor towards us, while also expressing the realization that he suffers because of us and for us.

Unbelief and disobedience are not the same to me, since disobedience is an action that follows after unbelief. Notice that "belief" which you thoroughly outlined, does not contain any reference to obedience. So why should unbelief mean disobedience? I am aware that scripture will conflate the two and I even understand why, but in everyday parlance they are not the same.

You are correct that Adam believed Satan, but what did Adam believe? He accepted a false and corrupt image of god which facilitated disobedience, which is why I said this: "I would say that it has to do with the depth of the realization as to the importance of God's Image in conjunction with the outcome of our reasoning."

So what we are believing in when "obeying" the Gospel, is that Holy Person or Character of God that suffers all things, including a cross of torture and death, for our sake, so that for we whom this Love has been revealed, might be convinced of His undying Love towards us, and therefore unconvinced of Satan's false presentation of god, which from the beginning of man's fall has produced infidelity. The True Image of God inspires our faith hope and love, unto life, when seen and understood. Hence Jesus is a quickening Spirit which the devil, in all vanity, does not want people to even understand nor confess to.

 

[smaller]

Every Word of God in the parable(s) of the sower apply to us as believers. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4.

We all start out with ground where the seed didn't take whatsoever. This was our state, as is the state of all unbelievers, shown by Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4 and Eph. 2:2. All of these scriptures, like the parable(s) of the sower, show us our adversary, blinding us to the Gospel, so His Word doesn't take or stick.

We all then who believe were moved to where we received the Word with gladness. Mark 4:16-17 and suffer afflictions and persecutions of innumerable sorts and are also offended. The parable in Mark is particularly adroit in connecting this bridge from our starting position with the linking term "and these are they" "and these are they likewise." It's the same persons. The hardest thing to remember is the dictate that Jesus gave us, that EVERY WORD applies to us, Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4.

We who believe also have His Seed sown among thorns, Mark 4:19. Obviously this is not speaking of literal thorns. The use of the word thorn is specifically linked to what the thorn means:

"the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful."

Every believer, sooner or later, encounters these matters as well. Beyond any doubt, IF we are honest about it.

And finally, after many struggles, some might manage to figure out that our adversarial enemy was fighting us in our faith the entire way, and that scripture does not speak to just us alone in our faith, just as Mark 4:15 told us to start with. This is when scripture starts to unfold it's gems and we see ourselves as the Word sees us.

Matthew 13:26
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

Believers won't and can't see the tare until they poke their head out of the ground. They will only see the tare as "the other people." That ain't the case. Once seen, that the Light of Gods Word also "feeds" the enemy to harden and resist Gods Words, some will see that their own faith is a race to the finish line, in their own ground, with our adversary, resisting the entire way.

This is how Paul saw himself, at the end of his faith. 1 Tim. 1:15. He was not only looking at himself.

A good and honest heart will come to every conclusion of the parable, and apply EVERY WORD of God to themselves. And will both "race" and "fight" against the opposition of His Light. We do not wrestle flesh and blood. We do wrestle for His Light because the tare, the thorn, our adversary is also vying for the same space. Eph. 6:11-12.

1 Cor. 15:56 shows us that the law, Gods Word, lends resisting power to our adversary. They resist as they have been made to do by God Himself.

So, yes, we are competing for space and Light. When the terminus point of our flesh life arrives, this is what happens:

Matthew 13:49
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

When we read of those who cry Lord Lord, it will be the tare, claiming to be a wheat. But that tare is in our own ground when the Harvester comes. It will cry to be taken as well, but it will be discarded and left behind.

Here is how it would look with Paul for example:

2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Only one of the parties in the above was harvested. That would be Paul. The other, not. But it will go, lying all the way, back to the earth until it is finally burned up at the end of this wicked age.

This is what Jesus meant when He said this:

Luke 17:34
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

We all reside sleeping in the same bed, with our adversarial enemies of our faith.

Romans 13:
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

I hope, no, I know, that God in Christ means for us to get the "whole picture" in these matters. But I also know that another party, in the same ground, in the same bed, will not and can not get these pictures, because it is RESISTING the Word.

When God Speaks, He Speaks to TWO parties, TWO separate and distinct entity classes. Uplifting one, and hardening the other in preparation for final judgments.

When we read this from Daniel, we should perceive what comes out of our own dust:

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Remember Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4. We will, are meant to, find HIS LIFE in every Word. Yes, even the Words we don't like to hear. These are meant to be applied to our adversaries, in our own ground.

When we witness to our neighbors, and show them the Love of God in Christ, we are not witnessing to just one party. We witness to TWO parties, in the same lump of clay. Eph. 2:2 shows us that the spirit of disobedience, the prince of the power of the air, is in contention with them. God Himself bound them with that other spirit, Romans 11:32. Your job, the burden of His Light, is to reach only ONE of them, and resist the other.

You who hear, will understand. And those who do not hear, everything they have will be taken from them.