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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Justice said:
DrDiotte said:
Or you could put a dress on a man and call him a woman but when the dress is removed he is still a man. Your logic is lacking. The scriptures you use to judge us don't fit. You've tried to say that we hate to the point of physically harming homosexuals but the hate I see is being promoted by you.
DrDiotte said:
Did Jesus Christ ever say that he hates the deeds of others???
Revelation 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
Hating the deeds of the others DOES NOT mean that we have to hate them: Thus hate the sin but not the sinner:
Some confuse the 2 but I love you anyway Doc:
Justice
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DrDiotte
Guest
Only thing it is lacking is your understanding of it.... Point was i can say anything it doesn't make it true. That sure is lacking :P
I can show you a 100 web site that promote hate against Homosexuals and the reasons the use are the same reasons you defend. God Said.....
But I know you are not blind so if you were to seek the truth you could find them with a click of the button.
Hating the deeds of the others DOES NOT mean that we have to hate them: Thus hate the sin but not the sinner.
Well if you just hated "The Sin" you would not be trying to take something they should be able to receive.
Taking from them is not hating the sin. Taking from the person is far from it.
See if this makes any sense:
http://www.worthynews.com/commentary/ha ... ill-5.html
Senate Must Reject Unjust ‘Hate Crime’ Legislation
July 26, 2001
Washington, DC – "The U.S. Senate is considering a bill today that will violate the concept of equal justice under the law." said Andrea Lafferty, Executive Director of Traditional Values Coalition. This disingenuously named "The Local Law Enforcement Enhancement Act, S. 625 contains dangerous ‘hate crime’ language that will create a system of Orwellian ‘Animal Farm’ justice where some individuals are more equal than others under the law. "Napoleon, the dictator pig in Animal Farm would welcome passage of S. 625," said Lafferty.
According to Lafferty, while S. 625 is ostensibly designed to discourage "hatred," this bill actually punishes a criminal who commits a violent crime against a homosexual more severely than if he committed a crime against a non-homosexual. In effect, S. 625 creates a two-tiered system of justice where homosexuals are deemed to be of more value than other victims of crime.
"No one is in favor of violence against individuals because of their sexual preferences," said Lafferty. "But under our constitution, no individual should receive higher legal protections because of their sexual practices. This law is clearly unjust and should be rejected by the Senate."
TVC is urging defeat of S. 625 because it is unneeded legislation. According to Lafferty, supporters of this bill have failed to prove that local authorities are not enforcing hate crime laws--and that there is a need for federal assistance in enforcing these laws. "Congress has yet to prove that there is a need to expand federal hate crime laws," said Lafferty.
This legislation also provides a blank check for the funding of law enforcement and public school materials that promote anti-Christian bigotry under the guise of reducing "hate." "This law will violate the free speech rights of Christians and others who oppose homosexuality on moral grounds," said Lafferty. "This is a direct attack against the First Amendment and freedom of religion. It must not be passed by the Senate."
Lafferty points out that two legal scholars have criticized the philosophy behind passage of "hate crime" laws. Writing in Hate Crimes: Criminal Law & Identity Politics, authors James B. Jacobs and Kimberly Potter state that hate crime laws are actually aimed at criminalizing a person’s beliefs and opinions. "By providing special protected class status for homosexuals," said Lafferty, "we are not only violating the American tradition of equal justice under the law, we are punishing individuals for their thoughts and speech when we pass hate crime laws."
Traditional Values Coalition is an inter-denominational public policy organization comprising over 43,000 member churches. For more information call Christy Moore at (202) 547-8570. TVC, 139 C Street, SE, Washington, DC 20003. Web address: http://www.traditionalvalues.org.
http://www.worthynews.com/commentary/ha ... ill-5.html
Senate Must Reject Unjust ‘Hate Crime’ Legislation
July 26, 2001
Washington, DC – "The U.S. Senate is considering a bill today that will violate the concept of equal justice under the law." said Andrea Lafferty, Executive Director of Traditional Values Coalition. This disingenuously named "The Local Law Enforcement Enhancement Act, S. 625 contains dangerous ‘hate crime’ language that will create a system of Orwellian ‘Animal Farm’ justice where some individuals are more equal than others under the law. "Napoleon, the dictator pig in Animal Farm would welcome passage of S. 625," said Lafferty.
According to Lafferty, while S. 625 is ostensibly designed to discourage "hatred," this bill actually punishes a criminal who commits a violent crime against a homosexual more severely than if he committed a crime against a non-homosexual. In effect, S. 625 creates a two-tiered system of justice where homosexuals are deemed to be of more value than other victims of crime.
"No one is in favor of violence against individuals because of their sexual preferences," said Lafferty. "But under our constitution, no individual should receive higher legal protections because of their sexual practices. This law is clearly unjust and should be rejected by the Senate."
TVC is urging defeat of S. 625 because it is unneeded legislation. According to Lafferty, supporters of this bill have failed to prove that local authorities are not enforcing hate crime laws--and that there is a need for federal assistance in enforcing these laws. "Congress has yet to prove that there is a need to expand federal hate crime laws," said Lafferty.
This legislation also provides a blank check for the funding of law enforcement and public school materials that promote anti-Christian bigotry under the guise of reducing "hate." "This law will violate the free speech rights of Christians and others who oppose homosexuality on moral grounds," said Lafferty. "This is a direct attack against the First Amendment and freedom of religion. It must not be passed by the Senate."
Lafferty points out that two legal scholars have criticized the philosophy behind passage of "hate crime" laws. Writing in Hate Crimes: Criminal Law & Identity Politics, authors James B. Jacobs and Kimberly Potter state that hate crime laws are actually aimed at criminalizing a person’s beliefs and opinions. "By providing special protected class status for homosexuals," said Lafferty, "we are not only violating the American tradition of equal justice under the law, we are punishing individuals for their thoughts and speech when we pass hate crime laws."
Traditional Values Coalition is an inter-denominational public policy organization comprising over 43,000 member churches. For more information call Christy Moore at (202) 547-8570. TVC, 139 C Street, SE, Washington, DC 20003. Web address: http://www.traditionalvalues.org.
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DrDiotte
Guest
You find the people that are feeling the hate to say that bill is bad and we can go some where.
But of course you are not going to. Only people I see supporting are the ones that don't think what they are doing is hate.
To be 100% honest with you here. I would rather not have a need for a law like that. But if people can't face the facts of what is going on and continue to do it under disguise then I think we just might need a bill like this.
But even going past this hate thing. (For arguments sake I will say ok you are right its not hate)
Only one question I would have then.
Why do you think the government should enforce your religious belief? And if you don't feel they should why are you on this subject? We are way past that part and know how God feel with the issue so now we are left with the governments endorsement of one religion over a another.
But of course you are not going to. Only people I see supporting are the ones that don't think what they are doing is hate.
To be 100% honest with you here. I would rather not have a need for a law like that. But if people can't face the facts of what is going on and continue to do it under disguise then I think we just might need a bill like this.
But even going past this hate thing. (For arguments sake I will say ok you are right its not hate)
Only one question I would have then.
Why do you think the government should enforce your religious belief? And if you don't feel they should why are you on this subject? We are way past that part and know how God feel with the issue so now we are left with the governments endorsement of one religion over a another.
I can show you a 100 web site that promote hate against Homosexuals and the reasons the use are the same reasons you defend. God Said.....DrDiotte said:
But I know you are not blind so if you were to seek the truth you could find them with a click of the button.
Hating the deeds of the others DOES NOT mean that we have to hate them: Thus hate the sin but not the sinner.
Well if you just hated "The Sin" you would not be trying to take something they should be able to receive.
Taking from them is not hating the sin. Taking from the person is far from it.[/quote:e936e]
Taking what??? They need a history of marriage before it can be taken. Christianity has a proven history and that's what you and others want to take/remove.
Since when has speading the good news of salvation become hate??? If we didn't care we wouldn't say anything. Here's news for you sin can NOT enter into Heaven. I believe you like others want to shut up Heaven to the lost all in the name of sexual perversion.
Justice
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DrDiotte
Guest
DrDiotte said:
It's NOT hate to say this bill was bad. We would lose 2 rights --- Freedom of speech and Freedom of religion: Under current hate crime laws sex is classfied as male or female and there's the protection even if they are homosexual. When people are attacked it's a crime. If a prostitute is attacked it's a crime. Should we change hate crime laws because of professions??? Give special rights over being male or female. In the process loss 2 constitutional rights because some don't like prostitution being viewed as a sin.
Justice
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DrDiotte
Guest
Well if you would like to give up freedom of religion in favor of the Government endorsing yours. What's the difference. I rather not give up any myself...
Have you watched these people that call themselves Christians when they talk about it on TV? They are showing and producing hate no ifs ands or buts.
And to me they are the ones hurting all religions.
Only reason this bill was presented was to stop what many see as hate.
As I said I wish people could see the real reason behind it and stop trying say it a different reason. They said it was because of this... You can say no no they are only doing it for this.... But you can not know the true motivation you are only assuming. And we all know the saying about assuming.
One thing I think I better clear up because when I read back I can see I never defined what I meant. And I sure don't need you to assume.....
I am not saying speaking out against the sin was a Hateful thing (depends HOW you do it) its the act of trying to get the Government to enforce your beliefs on them... That is the hate.... I see no other motivation for it, And you surly have not stated one.
Have you watched these people that call themselves Christians when they talk about it on TV? They are showing and producing hate no ifs ands or buts.
And to me they are the ones hurting all religions.
Only reason this bill was presented was to stop what many see as hate.
As I said I wish people could see the real reason behind it and stop trying say it a different reason. They said it was because of this... You can say no no they are only doing it for this.... But you can not know the true motivation you are only assuming. And we all know the saying about assuming.
One thing I think I better clear up because when I read back I can see I never defined what I meant. And I sure don't need you to assume.....
I am not saying speaking out against the sin was a Hateful thing (depends HOW you do it) its the act of trying to get the Government to enforce your beliefs on them... That is the hate.... I see no other motivation for it, And you surly have not stated one.
DrDiotte said:
The question is who's trying to force a belief??? I believe a marriage is one man and one woman and I've never known it any other way. How do you classify something that it's not, an illusion, a pretense, or a forgery??? Then force the acceptance of this counterfeit by way of law. Who is forcing who???
I did not have to assume, I'ld be blind not to see the intent/meaning of your words but at least you put forth an effort to re-read. Thanks for this much ---
DrDiotte said:
Justice
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Dee_wwjd
Guest
Love the Lord Your God with all your heart and all soul and all your mind, Love others as you love yourself...
I am against homosexual behaviour, but what we as Christians need to do is not to battle against this as if we are enemies but we must come together in prayer...
Question:
How do you think God looks at this, See the homosexuals through God's eyes!!!!! Not your own!!!!!
God created them you know! We lived a life of utter sin, just because we are saved does not make us above those still trapped in sin...
We have to rebuke satan, we have to fight against sin!! We should not fight against God's creation but we should fight the one who wants to destroy God's creation and that is the devil - plain and simple...
If you succeed in Love being the main thing, seek the kingdom of heaven and all things shall be added unto you!
Instead of creating hatefull feelings toward the people trapped by evil, we need to pray for them...
love your enemies!!! Jesus said that we should love our enemies... You know the one that robs you, lies to you, goes against you and your beliefs...
He wasn't saying judge these people, make sure they burn in hell.. NO no no...
HE meant sit with them and help them, Jesus sat with a bunch of sinners because they needed help! Who is brave enought to go to a gay person and say hey, join us for church on Sunday.... i haven't done this
but we should do this for alchoholics druggies, prostitutes etc,, they don't know what we know, WHo are We to Judge... Let God do His perfect work, all that we need to do is Love oneanother!
I am against homosexual behaviour, but what we as Christians need to do is not to battle against this as if we are enemies but we must come together in prayer...
Question:
How do you think God looks at this, See the homosexuals through God's eyes!!!!! Not your own!!!!!
God created them you know! We lived a life of utter sin, just because we are saved does not make us above those still trapped in sin...
We have to rebuke satan, we have to fight against sin!! We should not fight against God's creation but we should fight the one who wants to destroy God's creation and that is the devil - plain and simple...
If you succeed in Love being the main thing, seek the kingdom of heaven and all things shall be added unto you!
Instead of creating hatefull feelings toward the people trapped by evil, we need to pray for them...
love your enemies!!! Jesus said that we should love our enemies... You know the one that robs you, lies to you, goes against you and your beliefs...
He wasn't saying judge these people, make sure they burn in hell.. NO no no...
HE meant sit with them and help them, Jesus sat with a bunch of sinners because they needed help! Who is brave enought to go to a gay person and say hey, join us for church on Sunday.... i haven't done this
but we should do this for alchoholics druggies, prostitutes etc,, they don't know what we know, WHo are We to Judge... Let God do His perfect work, all that we need to do is Love oneanother!
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DrDiotte
Guest
You already answered that why do you want me to repeat you?
Oh well here if it makes you happy.
and now for a repeat of one of my posts.
We can keep going in circles but really what is the point?
DrDiotte said:
As for hate here i will get you a few links on hate crimes and you tell me if you definition fits anymore.
http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/nypd/html/db/biascri.html
Well you can search though 100s
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=what+is+a+hate+crime&sm=Yahoo!+Search&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1
As i said just because you don't see it as hate doesn't mean the people you are doing it to don't...[/quote:271ba]
Thank you for your fine post.
Surely you are a wolf in sheeps clothing. And I publicly expose your false teachings of the Christian relegion.
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
DrDiotte said:
Excuse me, you are on a Christian Forum. We (As Christians) believe what the Bible has to say. If you choose not to believe in what the Bible says, then you cannot know the word of God.
We are warned of your type as surely you are after your own personal agenda, and not the will of God.
Proverbs 30:33 Surely the churning of milk brings forth butter, and the wringing of the nose brings forth blood: so the forcing of wrath brings forth strife.
You incite strife on these forums for your own agenda. I do not see that as glorifying the will of God.
DrDoitte Quoted said:
Sorry, America is not OURS. America belongs to God. And God will judge our great Nation as he has judged and continues to judge all Nations.
Proverbs 14:34 Righteousness exalts a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.
DrDoitte said:
You continually quote from secular sources with blatent disregard for Scripture. Many here have posted verses including myself on how the Bible defines hate. In addition, we have also shown scripture on what Love is and what Rebuking is. I am sorry if you don't understand the difference.
Jesus even said
Matthew 5:17-20 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
You claim to be a Christian, yet your words are like the action the hired hand.
John 10:12 But he that is a hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees: and the wolf catches them, and scatters the sheep.
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greyfeather
Guest
What should be done with homosexuals
StoveBolts,
I thought on these forums no one is to call into question ones christian belifes? Maybe we had all calm down here and remember who it is that is the judge of all.
James 4
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
StoveBolts,
I thought on these forums no one is to call into question ones christian belifes? Maybe we had all calm down here and remember who it is that is the judge of all.
James 4
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
Re: What should be done with homosexuals
With the evidence that has been repeatedly presented, he told the truth and made a right call. About time someone did!greyfeather said:
Re: What should be done with homosexuals
Greyfeather,
I am not upset or angry. If I am wrong, then please correct me.
I am not above reproof.
Peace.
greyfeather said:
Greyfeather,
I am not upset or angry. If I am wrong, then please correct me.
I am not above reproof.
Peace.
Re: What should be done with homosexuals
I did the same thing on page 7, and I judged my what he has posted around here. I didn't say he wasn't saved but by what he has said I would call into question his salvation.
As far as judging goes the Lord told us we would know them by their fruit..
greyfeather said:
I did the same thing on page 7, and I judged my what he has posted around here. I didn't say he wasn't saved but by what he has said I would call into question his salvation.
As far as judging goes the Lord told us we would know them by their fruit..
G
greyfeather
Guest
What should be done with homosexuals
destiny ,Judy
I stand by what I said to StoveBolts, I have myself been guilty of judgeing a person because I see things on a different level then they do. I feel badly after I judge another because I know how it feels to be judged by others, so when I find myself doing it I ask God for forgivness, I truly know that what James said is true. This issue is a hot button issue and emotions run high and people say things they should not. Giving an opinon to the topic in question is fine but to call into question someones salvation that is Gods judgement. Its a hard thing for people not to be judgemental and on this topic Ive seen alot of judgements made back and forth which is getting no one anywhere. I am not condeming StoveBolts or anyone else just pointing out that being the Judge of someone is Gods domaine.
destiny ,Judy
I stand by what I said to StoveBolts, I have myself been guilty of judgeing a person because I see things on a different level then they do. I feel badly after I judge another because I know how it feels to be judged by others, so when I find myself doing it I ask God for forgivness, I truly know that what James said is true. This issue is a hot button issue and emotions run high and people say things they should not. Giving an opinon to the topic in question is fine but to call into question someones salvation that is Gods judgement. Its a hard thing for people not to be judgemental and on this topic Ive seen alot of judgements made back and forth which is getting no one anywhere. I am not condeming StoveBolts or anyone else just pointing out that being the Judge of someone is Gods domaine.
greyfeather
The topic for me is not an emotional topic and I tell you in all truth that my emotions are in check.
I know what the bible says about this issue as do others. I don't have an issue with the topic, I have an issue when a brother in Christ defiles the gospel and we are told.
1 Timothy 6:3-5 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting over questions and disputes of words, out of which comes envy, strife, railings, evil suspicions, Perverse wranglings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw yourself.
The intent of a Christian should be to grow in Christ. When you openly rebuke what the bible says, then we are told how to treat those that call themselves brothers.
1st. We are to gently guide them.
2nd. If they refuse to believe, we are to correct them.
3rd. If they do not correct themselves and repent, we are to ex-communicate them until they repent.
I can pull scripture if need be, but dont' feel the need at this time.
Please tell me where I have erred, other than changing the topic of this thread.
Again, I am not above reproof. Simply show me where I need to grow and follow the three guidlines that Christ has outlined for us.
Peace.
The topic for me is not an emotional topic and I tell you in all truth that my emotions are in check.
I know what the bible says about this issue as do others. I don't have an issue with the topic, I have an issue when a brother in Christ defiles the gospel and we are told.
1 Timothy 6:3-5 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting over questions and disputes of words, out of which comes envy, strife, railings, evil suspicions, Perverse wranglings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw yourself.
The intent of a Christian should be to grow in Christ. When you openly rebuke what the bible says, then we are told how to treat those that call themselves brothers.
1st. We are to gently guide them.
2nd. If they refuse to believe, we are to correct them.
3rd. If they do not correct themselves and repent, we are to ex-communicate them until they repent.
I can pull scripture if need be, but dont' feel the need at this time.
Please tell me where I have erred, other than changing the topic of this thread.
Again, I am not above reproof. Simply show me where I need to grow and follow the three guidlines that Christ has outlined for us.
Peace.
There is a big difference between judging a person and rebuking them.
There is a big difference between rebuking a person and condemning them. I don't think anyone is judging or condemning anyone here.
If a person is contradicting what scripture teaches then rebuking and correcting is necessary.
Homosexuality is a behavior that goes against what is taught in the bible, and if someone is supporting the homosexual cause then they are promoting a sin. Period.
Any time there is a Thread about homosexuality on this CHRISTIAN FORUM, it ends in a stale mate between people who are for and people who are against supporting the homosexual to have rights to do what they want.
Why do the advocated for homosexuals come onto CHRISTIAN FORUMS to debate this subject? There is no supporting the cause of the homosexual, from a Christian perspective, period. IT IS AN ABOMINATION.
The topic, when it's run to the dry end of it, then turns into a civil rights issue as to whether the Christian should be supporting the civil rights of an individual, ill regarding of the sin that is being committed. It turns political instead of what God says about it the argument turns into what the CHRISTIAN think vs. what the Government laws should be.
How can any "Christian" support sin in any way?
Christians are to not accept sin nor are they to support the sin. Christians are to not accept the sins they themselves do.
Regardless of whether the government allows it or not.
Christians are to Repent, turn away from the sin.
If you want to talk about Government VS. Religion, It will always end up being a stale mate! The thread is asking what to do with the homosexual? Well, since this is a Christian Forum. :roll:
There is a big difference between rebuking a person and condemning them. I don't think anyone is judging or condemning anyone here.
If a person is contradicting what scripture teaches then rebuking and correcting is necessary.
Homosexuality is a behavior that goes against what is taught in the bible, and if someone is supporting the homosexual cause then they are promoting a sin. Period.
Any time there is a Thread about homosexuality on this CHRISTIAN FORUM, it ends in a stale mate between people who are for and people who are against supporting the homosexual to have rights to do what they want.
Why do the advocated for homosexuals come onto CHRISTIAN FORUMS to debate this subject? There is no supporting the cause of the homosexual, from a Christian perspective, period. IT IS AN ABOMINATION.
The topic, when it's run to the dry end of it, then turns into a civil rights issue as to whether the Christian should be supporting the civil rights of an individual, ill regarding of the sin that is being committed. It turns political instead of what God says about it the argument turns into what the CHRISTIAN think vs. what the Government laws should be.
How can any "Christian" support sin in any way?
Christians are to not accept sin nor are they to support the sin. Christians are to not accept the sins they themselves do.
Regardless of whether the government allows it or not.
Christians are to Repent, turn away from the sin.
If you want to talk about Government VS. Religion, It will always end up being a stale mate! The thread is asking what to do with the homosexual? Well, since this is a Christian Forum. :roll: