What should be done with Homosexuals?

[Sophistress]

i really cant see how you can use the bible to try to stop homosexuality, but you dotn use it for all of the other groups it hates against.

Where is the illegality of judaism? islam? atheism?

why havent towns with atheists been burned down??

Your bible tells you too, yet you only seem to pick on certain groups.



*edited* for being offensives. huj05 has left the building

That's a very good point. For all those who voted that "homosexual behavior" should be outlawed, do you also think other religions should be outlawed for the same reasons? If not, why not? If so, *no need for that comment*

Homosexuality is a religion?

I thought it was just people practicing perversion... :o

No, I think you may have misunderstood me. This question wasn't directed so much at you, because you din't say that "homosexual behavior" should be outlawed. For anyone who did answer that, I want to know that, since you want "homosexual behavior" outlawed because it is sinful, do you also want all other religions outlawed on the same basis? Blaspheming the Holy Spirit... the unforgivable sin, even.

 

[Justice]

Wow!!! Words like hate, force, lynch, physical, etc... Because of scriptures like this ---

Jude 1:7-8 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Name 1 Christian here who said they hate, would lynch, force belief, or has ever gotten physical (as in harming) homosexuals???

Most of the "hate" talk I see is towards us/Christians.

Jesus Christ is our example but with the "hate" reasoning used here we would have to abandon him along with the Bible since he talked of sinning no more:

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Some "Hate" Examples Used:

It is ok to say your opinion (to an extent) but i dont think it is ok to take it into effect if it hates against others.

i really cant see how you can use the bible to try to stop homosexuality, but you dotn use it for all of the other groups it hates against.

Lynch them---Opps I mean arrest them!!!!!!

Teach yes as I have ALWAYS say education is the path we need to take not FORCE.

Hate is Hate not just the hate you choose to see.

I just think we need to educate our children what is right and what is wrong and stop all the hate that is spoke daily.

Teach them what sin is and they will pick it out themselves. That would surly not show any type of hate.

You really should learn the difference of Love/Hate and what promoting means.

To show hate, to people that do sin is just not right (That’s a wrong)
To force people into believing in your belief. (That’s a wrong)

But I feel trying to force people to believe like you do is wrong, and not working to be a Christian because even if you do not want to own up to it you can clearly see many see it as a form of hate and to show hate even if you don’t think it is hate still don’t change the fact that some are feeling the hate. SO yes it is hate.

Right again but you shouldn’t let yourself fall into that same group by using hate and trying to justifying it because that is a sin even if you don’t want to admit it.

No I think you are wrong I think why some hate “Christians†is because they don’t know how to separate the ones that preach hate and discrimination and the ones that show Love and understanding. So they put them all in one box and a certain group of people are driving others away from the Lord because of it and it is sad I am glad to see more and more everyday people are starting to see it and I will always speak out and try to show them it because I don’t want to be linked with people that practice that kind of stuff.

You ask almost anyone that claims to hate Christians what they hate about them and you will see if I just pulling your leg. The people as you say “HATE†Christians I don’t believe they care if you seek truth or what you live your life by as long as you are not trying to MAKE them follow the same thing as you do. And when you do I can see why they would have resentment to you.

Taking food from their mouth.. is this not hate?

Denying them the right to live without persecution (verbal or physical) is this not hate?

Hate comes in many forms and just because one thinks his behavior is not hateful does not mean it is not. You are bringing the feeling of hate to these people and to say they can’t tell the difference between love/hate is not even a point because I am telling you I see it as HATE I know many others see it as HATE. You may not think it is because you are blinded by your beliefs but it is.

I John 3:14-19 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. We know love by this that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoever has the world's goods, and beholds his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. We shall know by this that we are of the truth, and shall assure our heart before Him. (NAS)

You have it mixed up a bit: These scriptures are talking about our brethren/brothers in Christ. Note 1 John 3:12-13.


1 John 3:10-13
10: In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11: For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12: Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13: Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.


1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 3 commands those who believe in Jesus Christ to love one another.

Even though as it has been stated that we love the sinner but not the sin, don't expect us to throw away our Bibles because you view it as hate speech.

First off, I don't hate them!! It is you that keeps lumping us all together with the ones that do. You believe that the ones that speak out and say that being a homosexual and calling it for what it is a "sin", is hating that person. And you are wrong! The bible clearly calls us all "sinners" so are you saying that the bible is a book of hate??

I never once said that I hated the homosexual, so please don't put word in my mouth. What has me upset are the christians here that are standing up for the rights of the homosexual to continue down the path of destruction and think they are loving them by doing so.

Amen Judy!!!


BTW --- I didn't vote on your poll since this whole thread was an obvious setup.

Justice

 

[DrDiotte]

Name 1 Christian here who said they hate, would lynch, force belief, or has ever gotten physical (as in harming) homosexuals???

I can put a mask on a mouse and tell you its not a mouse but when you remove that mask it is still a mouse.

18 He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool. 19 In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise. 20 The tongue of the just is as choice silver: the heart of the wicked is little worth. 21 The lips of the righteous feed many: but fools die for want of wisdom.

 

[DrDiotte]

Ok let me explain to you why scripture can not be used to justify this.
American was founded certain principles some of those were some of the same ones a lot of Christians hold as with many other people. (Yes even Atheists) and also on some that were not. We came to this land to so we could have FREEDOM of religion.
Some of the reasons people justify banning gay people from getting married or outlawing them altogether.
1. God said…… Opps back up... The God you believe in said it is a sin. Well that is called a belief and others don’t hold that same belief. So for the government to enforce it for that reason would be wrong because we are free to practice our own religion without being forced to follow any certain one.

2. it’s against nature. I guess if you look at it like that then doctors should be outlawed, owning a gun without killing someone should be illegal (because they were made to kill) clothing should be made illegal. So basically that argument doesn’t hold its own weight.

3. They spread diseases. Well we all know it not limited to gay people so there goes another one.

Well there is 3 off the top of my head. If you got anymore I will be glad to debunk them for you.

No one has showed any real reason they support the government to make a law that would stop homosexual behavior or from letting them sign the contract.
So how can anyone take the reason to be anything but hate?

You are free in American to practice your own religion. But when you use your religion to make other believe the same as your religion you are no longer inline with the laws set forth to protect even your religion.

 

[stovebolts]

1. God said…… Opps back up... The God you believe in said it is a sin. Well that is called a belief and others don’t hold that same belief. So for the government to enforce it for that reason would be wrong because we are free to practice our own religion without being forced to follow any certain one.

First, one thing we both agree on is that marriage is more than a signed document.

Now, Our country was / IS founded and based on a democracy. That gives ME a right to vote :-D That also means that YOU get to vote :-D And HE with the MOST votes WINS.
By your same logic, are you telling me that I don't have the right to vote?
You are free to believe in whatever religion you want, God gave you that right, not the government.
Turn the tide, what gives same sex marriages the right to FORCE their belief onto my family? That's why we VOTE (Same sex marriage is illegal in mi thanks to the voters of this great state, and it was by the voice of the people, not the government that passed that law.)

 

[DrDiotte]

By your same logic, are you telling me that I don't have the right to vote?

Well I guess when it comes to someone’s rights taken away you should not have a vote because of it.
You don’t think the black community is happy that they did not let their rights be voted on by the public? We would still have slavery… (Well maybe not today but for years longer then we did)

I don’t feel you nor I have the right to vote on a law that will strip ones freedom.
(If you remember what I feel freedom means)

Turn the tide, what gives same sex marriages the right to FORCE their belief onto my family?

How are they forcing their belief on you? Just because you see their belief doesn’t
1. Make you do it.
2. Force you to believe it.

 

[stovebolts]

How are they forcing their belief on you? Just because you see their belief doesn’t
1. Make you do it.
2. Force you to believe it.

I have to live with it right? Tell me one good reason why I have to live with it?
Ohhhh, but I have a choice right? I can change the channel... I can change the way I view gay marriage. I can even change how I talk to my children about what God has to say...
But if I don't Change my view, I am FORCED to accept their view.
Pretty simple ehh? (The view of the minority, that's why we VOTE).

 

[DrDiotte]

I have to live with it right? Tell me one good reason why I have to live with it?

First off your home is where you live and make the rules in your home. So if you wanted to live with it that would be your choice.
America is Ours and we all don’t have the same beliefs so everyone’s must be respected up till the time when it takes others rights away then the government has to step in and do what we built it for Govern and uphold the Constitution of the United States. And that says Freedom of religion and they can not promote any certain religion.
Best way to answer your question though is with a question really.
Tell me one good reason I need to live with Christians, Meat Eaters, Vegetarians, Jews, People that dress weird, and People with bad attitudes, etc? You answer that and that will be your answer to your question.

I can even change how I talk to my children about what God has to say...

You can yes. But why would you? Nothing is stoping you from your belief in the least. You can say they are an abomination all you like and they can say the same thing about you.
That is different then trying to get the government to pass a law that would make people do as your belief says.

But if I don't Change my view, I am FORCED to accept their view.

Well yes of course you have to accept it because fact of the matter is they have same rights as you do. Now having to agree it would be different and of course you wouldn’t have to agree with their belief just as they don’t have to agree with your belief.


Pretty simple ehh?

Here is something you might want to read then understand.

Part VI: Tyranny of the majority

Tyranny by usurpation is not the only threat to rule of law. Tyranny of the majority poses an equally grave threat. If the majority of voters do not themselves appreciate or feel bound by the principles of right established in the Constitution, and they elect representatives who reflect their own views, then direct protection of liberty may not be very secure.

This might seem like a quixotic worry. Why would The People and/or their representatives vote for a constitutional amendment installing the direct protection of liberty if they didn't appreciate and feel bound to adhere to the principles of right it embodies? Actually, this could happen quite easily, because direct protection offers dramatic gains on multiple fronts. In particular, it offers the prospect of absolutely crushing mala in se. People who have no inclination to tolerate things that Mill's principle clearly protects, such as drug use, might nevertheless favor a move to direct protection just because they think that crushing mala in se is a lot more important than punishing drug use. Thus we could very well end up in a situation similar to that of gun rights, where a large fraction of the population fails to embrace directly protected liberties and actively works to pass laws that infringe them. Together with relaxed restrictions on crime control, this could be a very dangerous situation for liberty. Can it be handled?

At the abstract level, the problem of tyranny of the majority is no different under direct protection than under indirect protection. Where tyrants have the power (such as a tyrannical majority in a democracy) they will do whatever they want to do and none can stop them. They will get their presidents. They will get their supreme court judges. They will get their constitution. A tyrannical majority that is intolerant of things that Mill's principle protects but that is more interested in smashing mala in se could simply eliminate or overrun indirect protections without bothering to protect liberty directly. This has already happened with forfeiture rules for seizing of "ill gotten gains," rules that allow police to confiscate property without due process. It isn't that direct protection is inherently more vulnerable to tyranny of the majority but that it shifts the ground over which tyranny of the majority would have to operate.

In general terms, tyranny of the majority means violation of natural right. In particular, it means violation of the natural rights of individuals, especially those natural rights that are ensconced in the Constitution. The direct protection of liberty puts more right in the Constitution. Thus while untying the hands of the police could make tyranny of the majority more devastating, direct protection also does more to combat tyranny of the majority by making more explicit in the Constitution what it is that the majority are not allowed to do. The question then is which tendency will prevail. Here insight can be gleaned by looking at the history of tyranny of the majority under our present Constitution.

 

[KnarfKS]

I'm pretty sure the first Christians had to deal with these problems more than we do now. The Romans had temple prostitutes, "bath houses", homosexuality and many other perverse things that the Christians had to be around, but it did not kill their faith. Oh yeah...Christians were the minority at that point.

This world stinks and will until Jesus returns. Sin is rampant and all we can do is try to befriend people and tell them about Jesus. If they don't respond after we show them love then it isn't our fault at that point, we tried and we have done what God asks of us. Using government is actually overstepping God. Ye of little faith that God will do more than you could ever imagine. He not we change lives.

By the way this topic was on Larry King live last night with Franklyn Graham :D , Tim Lahaye :-? , another minister and TD jakes

 

[stovebolts]

DrDodoittle,

Guess what,

If they have the same rights that I do, then don't they have a say in the polls?
They have the same american rights as anyone else. BTW, I know many many Non-Christian people that voted to ban same sex marriages. So you can't pin this only on the Christians.

Hey, shouldn't it be legal to use LSD? Don't those people have a right to fry their own minds??

 

[Judy]

Name 1 Christian here who said they hate, would lynch, force belief, or has ever gotten physical (as in harming) homosexuals???

I can put a mask on a mouse and tell you its not a mouse but when you remove that mask it is still a mouse.

1. God said…… Opps back up... The God you believe in said it is a sin.

You can also put a Bible in your hand and you can also quote scripture.. but that doesn't make you a christian :-?
By what you have said here and the stance you have taken on people being allowed to practice their sin. I would have to call into question your salvation.

I don’t feel you nor I have the right to vote on a law that will strip ones freedom.
(If you remember what I feel freedom means)

Ok, then why is there a law that says we can't murder our neighbor? Why are you taking away the rights of the murderer?
Or, why are you taking away the rights of the child molester?, after all he is just showing his "love" for children.
Why are there laws at all?? If I want to run down the street naked, why can't I?? If I want an ice cream, why can't I just go in the store and walk out with out paying for it? After all it is my freedom, and I want an ice cream!!
Why does the kidnapper get in trouble? after all it was his right, he saw that child or adult and thought of all the "wonderful" things he could do to and with them.. :o
I got an idea, Lets just get rid of all the laws after all someones freedom is being infringed upon and they are being forced to abide by them. :-?

 

[DrDiotte]

So you can't pin this only on the Christians.

Never would sorry because i am a Christian.
I telling you it is a form of hate even if you don't see it that is what it is. Some people come to terms with and some never do and in no way am i saying your belief is wrong but to force it i feel it is wrong.

Hey, shouldn't it be legal to use LSD? Don't those people have a right to fry their own minds??

My belief can all be traced to one central principle: that your life is yours, your property is yours, that you have the God-given, inalienable right to live your life your way, without government interference, provided that you respect the rights and property of others.

So you apply that to your question and you will have your answer.

 

[DrDiotte]

1. God said…… Opps back up... The God you believe in said it is a sin.

This was speaking as one of them do and can because some believe different…

I would have to call into question your salvation

Yea I could say the same for you question my salvation. But my father tell me I am not to judge ones salvation. He will judge me.


All the laws you mentioned apply what I believe true freedom is.

My belief can all be traced to one central principle: that your life is yours, your property is yours, that you have the God-given, inalienable right to live your life your way, without government interference, provided that you respect the rights and property of others.

and that is my answer.

 

[Judy]

Yea I could say the same for you question my salvation. But my father tell me I am not to judge ones salvation. He will judge me.

• Matthew 7: 16. "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?[/*:m:52600]

• Matthew 7:20-23. "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
  21. "Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
  22. "Many will say to Me in that day, `Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
  23. "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'[/*:m:52600]

 

[DrDiotte]

DrDodoittle,

It is DrDiotte i take offence to you doing that to may name. :x

You got that Steve? :p

: :smt022

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0502/01/lkl.01.html
Thank you Larry King

 

[stovebolts]

DrDodoittle,

It is DrDiotte i take offence to you doing that to may name. :x

You got that Steve? :p

: :smt022

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0502/01/lkl.01.html
Thank you Larry King

My apologies, it was not intentional.

 

[Sophistress]

i really cant see how you can use the bible to try to stop homosexuality, but you dotn use it for all of the other groups it hates against.

Where is the illegality of judaism? islam? atheism?

why havent towns with atheists been burned down??

Your bible tells you too, yet you only seem to pick on certain groups.



*edited* for being offensives. huj05 has left the building

That's a very good point. For all those who voted that "homosexual behavior" should be outlawed, do you also think other religions should be outlawed for the same reasons? If not, why not? If so, *no need for that comment*

Homosexuality is a religion?

I thought it was just people practicing perversion... :o

No, I think you may have misunderstood me. This question wasn't directed so much at you, because you din't say that "homosexual behavior" should be outlawed. For anyone who did answer that, I want to know that, since you want "homosexual behavior" outlawed because it is sinful, do you also want all other religions outlawed on the same basis? Blaspheming the Holy Spirit... the unforgivable sin, even.

No response?

 

[DrDiotte]

You more then likely will not get a response because the answer to that question wouldn't work in-line with the answer they gave.

Unless it was yes then :o

 

[stovebolts]

DrDiotte

What it really comes down to is not what I think or even what you think. What matters is what the bible says.
P.S. There is a difference between hate and rebuking. Hate is motivated by self interest. Rebuking is motivated with the hope of repentance from the sinner.

Leviticus 19:17-18 You shall not hate your brother in your heart: you shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him. You shall not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.

So, we are not to hate our brother, but we are allowed to rebuke him. Be very careful what you call hate my friend.

Rebuke from Dictionary.com
1. To criticize or reprove sharply; reprimand. See Synonyms at admonish.
2. To check or repress.
Reprove:
1. To voice or convey disapproval of; rebuke. See Synonyms at admonish.
2. To find fault with.

Deuteronomy 19:11-12 But if any man hate his neighbor, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him, and wounds him mortally that he dies, and flees into one of these cities: Then the elders of his city shall send and bring him from there, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die.

This law is against HATE. Not for rebuking.

Now, back to the issue.

Leviticus 18:22-23 You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman: it is abomination. Neither shall you lie with any animal to defile yourself with it: neither shall any woman stand before an animal to lie down with it: it is perversion.

Sounds pretty clear to me. Don't have sex with the same sex and don't have sex with animals. Odd how homosexuality is in the same paragraph with animals. Things that make ya go hmmmm... I think God was right, it's just not natural. (Chapter 18 is pretty much devoted to sexual matters. Notice how we are told to handle others in chapter 19 as noted by the scripture above. So, we are in direct context here.)

As to not write a book here, lets just leave on a note from the Apostle Paul.

Romans 1:24-31 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is shameful, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was fitting. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not proper; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Now tell me again, Was Paul full of Hate?

 

[DrDiotte]

What it really comes down to is not what I think or even what you think. What matters is what the bible says.

Na... As I said America has many bibles so why does a law the government would enforce have to come from a bible you believe in? We are talking about the government not personal choice. As for what the our bible say we already know what the bible we use says about personal choice. we need to get back to the topic at hand.

America is Ours and we all don’t have the same beliefs so everyone’s must be respected up till the time when it takes others rights away then the government has to step in and do what we built it for Govern and uphold the Constitution of the United States. And that says Freedom of religion and they can not promote any certain religion.

As for hate here i will get you a few links on hate crimes and you tell me if you definition fits anymore.

http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/nypd/html/db/biascri.html
Well you can search though 100s
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=what+is+a+hate+crime&sm=Yahoo!+Search&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1

As i said just because you don't see it as hate doesn't mean the people you are doing it to don't...