What to do?

[WIP]

I am struggling with some issues and would like some advice. Our oldest daughter entered college this past fall. The plan was that she would live on campus so we arranged for a dorm room with a full meal plan. So far, so good but here is where things begin to break down. Her boyfriend also entered college this fall at a location only about 10 miles from her. I sure you are probably beginning to catch where I am going with this. My wife and I had our concerns about the close proximity of their locations but I kept telling her that she is over 18 and an adult and we must trust our daughter. Besides, if she didn’t have a boyfriend she would likely meet people at the college and anyone of interest will probably live much closer. At that point I was figuring we were in the throes of cutting the umbilical cord.

As it happens we use Progressive auto insurance and this past fall we decided to try out their new Snapshot® program on all four of our vehicles including the one our college kid was driving. This program involves installing an electronic device in the vehicle that reports miles driven, hours driven, and number of hard stops over a given time period.

In the process of checking out the data on our vehicles and comparing our driving “skills†we inadvertently discovered that our daughter was often making a 12 mile drive in the early morning before classes. The obvious explanation is that she was not staying at her dorm but was spending the night at her boyfriend’s and having to drive to class in the mornings.

My wife indicated to me that our daughter had always assured her that she would save herself for marriage. This is something we had talked about quite a bit as she was growing up. When we discovered this information my wife confronted our daughter. She insisted that she was sleeping on the sofa but I am no fool. I told my wife that despite what we know is likely true, without hard evidence we must continue to trust our daughter but let her know that she is making a huge mistake. I told our daughter that she was playing with fire and reinforced how important it is for her to not put herself in a place where she will be tempted. I warned her about how an unwanted pregnancy would put her college ambitions on hold if not totally ending them. I told her this is not only a concern for us but a concern with God himself as he considers sexual promiscuity, sexual immorality, and sex outside of marriage to be a sinful behavior.

Well, this past weekend our daughter confided in my wife that she is in fact using birth control and they are sexually active. Right now I am very disappointed to hear this news and I am having a difficult time dealing with my feelings toward her. I am afraid to talk to our daughter face-to-face about this. I don’t know what to do. Maybe I can’t do anything but hope and pray for the best.

As a result of this I have other concerns. I lead our High School Sunday School program in our church and I am also one of our deacons. Yesterday I was doing some digging through the Bible on an unrelated topic and came across 1 Timothy 1-13 and it struck a hard blow across my face.

1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

How can I in all honesty consider myself qualified to continue serving my church in these capacities when I can’t even keep my own house in order? We have Joshua 24:15 (“but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.â€) inscribed on our living room wall. I feel ashamed.

 

[Paul1965]

WIP, I feel for you and what you are going through. However in the verse it says

ruling their children and their own houses well.

Unfortunately as you said, the umbilical has been cut. Although she will always be your daughter and you will always love her, she is not of your house now that she has moved out. As for ruling your child, that's a bit trickier. Once a child leaves the family house they are a new person so to speak,yet still bonded to you by birth and love. You will need to tread very carefully if you choose to raise the issue with her, keeping your emotions in check. In reality she is an adult and can make her own choices.(mistakes) The important thing for you as her dad is to show her support no matter what. That doesn't mean going out and buying contraceptives for her, but be subtle when talking about God's views on premarital sex etc. The other thing to remember is that because this is her first "true boyfriend" (I'm assuming) the chances are it will end.... with a lot of sadness. Sad but true these days. If and when that happens, you have to be there for her. Not with I told you so's etc. But as a compassionate dad that she knows, loves and trusts.
Then after time (a fair amount of time) sit her down and talk to her about your concerns for her soul.

Just to put it in perspective,I became a grandfather at 36 years of age. (daughter was 15 and a top student) I let my own feelings get the better of me and as a result, I haven't seen or been able to speak to my grand daughter or daughter for nearly 8years. She was that angry she cut me off completely. I would not wish that happening to anyone else,far less a brother in Christ.
God bless you and your family

 

[tandemcpl]

WIP,

I can’t answer your question; however, I found an article that might help. It is a long article, but one I think is worth reading.

Be blessed.

Toby

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/january/12.22.html?start=5

 

[President]

I have a few daughters that aren't in the boy crazy stage of life yet. So I don't have experience with 18-year-olds but I've been thinking about how to prepare for the teenage years.

I've recently listened to some Voddie Bauchum sermons on YouTube. In some of his sermons, he says that Christians have bought into the philosophy of the world when it comes to how to raise children, dating, etc. It's making me seriously consider home schooling too.

One thing he said is that if you had a $200k Ferrari and if some 17 year old boy came to your house asking to drive it, and you let him, everyone who heard about it would say that you are crazy. Yet if a let your 17-year-old daughter go off with him, that's considered normal. He says our society teaches us to value our cars more than our daughters.

A boy can do a lot more damage to a young girl than to a Ferrari, without the parent even knowing it.

He is also keeping his daughter at home instead of sending her to college. She wants to be a wife and mother, and he has her doing some master's level research for him.

Biblically, especially considering the Old Testament, it makes sense for fathers to keep their daughters with them, protect them, and care for them until they marry. The idea of sending them off to be on their own is part of our culture, and it's probably fairly recent if you think about it.

Eighteen is awfully young.

I am wondering why you don't want to discuss it with your daughter? Is it just too awkward, or is it a matter of not wanting to let on that your wife told you a secret her daughter told her. Her mother could tell her she told you or insist that she tell you.

If you wanted to go full patriarchal like Voddie Bauchum, I don't know how that would fly if you didn't raise your daughter to embrace those values as a teenager or child. I'm explaining to my kids that if the see something or hear something about teen dating to consider that make-believe like Tinkerbell as far as they are concerned. Dating is a recent invention. There used to be suitors who visited young women in her father's house in our countries past history. The 'boyfriend' as a socially acceptable institution seems to be an invention of the past 100 or 120 years or so, perhaps a slow evolution. The girl meets the social needs of having a husband without the commitment, gets bonded to many men. Now, full on sex with boyfriends and girlfriends is the norm.

About ruling your house well, that's a concern of mine too as I pursue more ministry, and I do want to keep my house in order and spend time thinking about how to move forward with the kids in that direction. I believe the Biblical pattern is for men to mature into eldership roles rather than taking them up at a young age right out of Bible college. Church planter evangelist types can follow a different track like Timothy.

Is your daughter in your household? Does where she sleeps at night make her not a part of her house, or is she a part of your household until she marries and you give her away. Does her living elsewhere give you a free pass? Another question is should your daughter be in your household instead of the umbilical cord having been prematurely cut so to speak, and how does that effect the issue. If you are financially supporting your daughter, how does that effect the issue of whether she is in your household?

Honestly, if I were in your position, I just might step down for a while until the daughter wasn't fornicating anymore and had repented. Something else to keep in mind is if a man seduced a virgin in the Old Testament, he had to pay the bride price for virgins, and he had to marry the girl and never divorce her, unless the father refused to give her to him in marriage. I see here that God values the one-sex-partner-for-life idea, especially for girls. I read a blog called the 'Social Pathologist' that had some percentages of people who divorced. If the bride was a virgin at marriage, I think the percentage of divorce in the sample was around 14%, 25% percent if she'd only fornicated with her husband before marriage (one sex partner), and 40 something percent if she had had multiple sexual partners. I didn't check the study to see if the sample size led to statistical significance, etc. but the blogger seemed to have some knowledge of how to interpret studies based on my cursory view of the website.

So if he is a believer who has slipped up, you can consider whether their marrying for the sake of future marital stability and not fornicating throughout college is something possible. But he'd have to be able to support her. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. I suppose a couple could live on student loans. Pregnancy would be an issue.

She doesn't have a husband to serve as her 'head'. You are her protector now. And also you serve a spiritual leadership role for her. I believer it is crucial for you to do what you can to get her off the path of fornication and deeper into sin. If she lets go of those values, whose to say she might not be tempted to let go of other values and abort your grandchild, and the legal system gives you no say at all about that. If you are supporting her financially, you can use that as leverage, and maybe get her back in the home. You could send her to community college near the house. There is always the chance she will rebel. If you have told her she is a free agent at 18, there may be a chance of that, so you have to handle the matters delicately, just pushing far enough to get her back on track without pushing so far as to tempt her too much to rebel or embitter her.

Those are just my thoughts on it. Keep pray for wisdom. I think you should change your approach to one of being responsible for her, as opposed to cutting the cord. This is a tough situation, but God's grace can see you through it.

 

[Knotical]

Though there are some aspects of the situation that demand taking ownership, there are also some that your daughter must take responsibility for. My suggestion is to sit down with her and have an open, and honest, discussion about this. If she is truly the Godly young woman you have raised she should be more than willing to engage in this kind of discussion.

The important point her is not to be confrontational about it, but more along the lines of sinners coming together hold each other up and encourage each other to confess their sins and ask forgiveness.

 

[WIP]

Thank you all for your thoughts. You have pointed out a lot of things for me to consider that I neglected to think about.

 

[iLOVE]

Your daughter has God the Holy Spirit that lives in her. Her flesh is weak as every legend and hero that is named in the bible and all people living today. Only Jesus was perfect! Pray and ask God to protect, guide, and surround her with His Angels. The devil who she cannot see comes to kill, steal, destroy, and divide families. Do not let the devil get away with this! Hunt him down as if you were a U.S Marshal persuing an escaped convict (I am talking about the devil, not the boyfriend)! The bible says, "if you catch the theif he must pay you sevenfold"! (Proverbs 6:31)

All that you ask God to do, it will be done! Jesus was clear when he preached. His message was, "whatever you have been missing in your life doesn't have to go missing anymore". Jesus said I am here to make everything wrong right!

 

[By Grace]

ruling their children and their own houses well..

First let me state that I sympathize with your situation. It is not easy to see the young girl you nurtured make bad decisions. But making bad decisions, and paying the consequences are a part of becoming an adult, aren't they? One of those consequences might be a refusal for you to pay for her dorm room because she is using it only as a closet to hang her clothes. You should pay for her education if you can afford it, but you do not have to subsidize her fornication. You do not have to support her on your insurance, either. Those are real options that you, wife and daughter should discuss, and come to a clear understanding about.

Second, I want to discuss true guilt and false guilt. there is a significant difference in the two, and many people confuse them, so you are not alone. True guilt comes only from Holy Spirit because it is his job to convict us if SIN so that we can repent, and have a deeper walk with Jesus. Therefore true guilt is good. It is personal, and it is redemptive.

OTOH there is false guilt. It does NOT come from God, it does NOT drive us to Jesus and it serves no redemptive purpose. False guilt is a condemning guilt. The cults use that sort of guilt all the time, and they take Scriptures like i Timothy 3:4 out of its context and use it to destroy and demolish a Christian. Because the purpose of false guilt is to make a Christian lame, ir ineffective, and because the Sctipture is wrenched from its context, it is a prime example of how Satan uses the Word of God to condemn and demean earnest Christians. Therefore the Christian must actively reject condemnation such as what you experiences, and use spiritual warfare to counter that lie. Say, "In the mane of Jesus, I reject your condemnation of me by warping God's word. Romans 8 tells me, 'there is no condemnation in me' because of Jesus Christ dying for me. Therefore, in the name of Jesus, I command you to leave me alone!".

Friend you are a victim of false guilt, and the sooner you learn to repeat that verse from Romans 8:1, the sooner the false guilt will leave. It is called "spiritual warfare" and remember "because we wrestle not against flesh and blood..." we have to take captive every thought that does not bring honor to Jesus Christ. Yes, it is a war, but we fight a war that has been won at Calvary. Therefore we are victors through Christ.

 

[dinoguy]

WIP,
It is not your fault. You did your best to raise her to act in a Godly manner, but she is her own person and must make her own decisions.
The feelings of love and the related desire for physical intimacy are not things most young people can ignore. That's just how it is.
In most cases these young people return to the Lord at some point, so don't fret too much.

 

[reba]

Well, this past weekend our daughter confided in my wife that she is in fact
using birth control and they are sexually active. Right now I am very
disappointed to hear this news and I am having a difficult time dealing with my
feelings toward her. I am afraid to talk to our daughter face-to-face about
this. I don’t know what to do.

Maybe I can’t do anything but hope and pray for
the best. This is absolutely the BEST thing you can do!

Pro_22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.


12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

She does not live in your home. She is 'of age' and like the rest of us she will have to learn the hard way... WIP, you can not protect her all her days.... You thinking your not fit? we all live in glass houses not one of us can throw the first stone... When you do talk to her be honest.... Like I am angry with you about this ,I still love you but I do not what to talk just now...

WIP if this is her first 'close ' relationship and she is 18 in this ugly would we live in you & your wife have done very well! Because of her upbringing she may feel herself married to this guy... Try and remember what ever you say this boyfriend may end up being your son - in - law...

 

[WIP]

Thank you. At this point my wife and I made our views known and I think we did a pretty good job of doing it with loving kindness and now she knows how we feel. At this point it is now up to her to make the right choices.

 

[reba]

Life makes changing diapers look easy.... Praying for your family's hurts.

 

[dinoguy]

Pro_22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.



WIP if this is her first 'close ' relationship and she is 18 in this ugly would we live in you & your wife have done very well! Because of her upbringing she may feel herself married to this guy... Try and remember what ever you say this boyfriend may end up being your son - in - law...

This is absolutely true. About 12 years ago when I was working in the youth groups at my church one of the secretaries there gave her testimony that 12 or so years prior to that she had been the only virgin amoungst her friends at a CHRISTIAN high school in the NINTH grade. So if she waited until 18 you did well. And some of my son's friends have in fact married young, so it is not inconceivable that they could marry. You might want to have him over for Easter.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

How can I in all honesty consider myself qualified to continue serving my church in these capacities when I can’t even keep my own house in order? We have Joshua 24:15 (“but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”) inscribed on our living room wall. I feel ashamed.

It is not your house that is disordered, but that of your daughter's boyfriend, and her acquiescence in that disorder. His priorities are wrong, and she has thrown out the teaching that you have so diligently attempted to instill in her in favor of the personal pleasures of a physical relationship. You are no more at fault for this turn of events than Charles Stanley was responsible for his wife deciding, after 40 years of marriage, that she was not cut out to be a pastor's wife and wanted a divorce. Ten years of living apart -- first under a separation agreement and then a prolonged divorce, during which Stanley constantly attempted to reconcile with his wife, to no avail -- ended with a divorce, an event Stanley had promised would result in his resignation. However, FBC Atlanta voted overwhelmingly as a congregation to retain him, as long as he did not remarry. He remains the pastor there. You should remain in your post.

There will be those who tell you you must resign. Do not listen to them. Not unless, in some form or fashion you have not disclosed to us, you have directly contributed to this circumstance. I find that to be highly unlikely. As long as your daughter was under your roof, in your household, she was obedient, was she not? Therefore, put your anxiety to rest. This is not your doing, though you can help restore your rebellious daughter and her boyfriend to fellowship.

Lastly, WIP, it is not about you. It is about the two of them. They have made a grave error in judgment. It is essential you put aside your personal concerns and reach out to both of them in the love and grace of a father who is deeply disappointed but nonetheless hopelessly in love with Christ, your wife, and your daughter, and who respects that loving relationship with his offspring to the extent that grace will be extended even to the one -- the boyfriend -- who has so grievously offended your family. My prayers and thoughts are with you. God bless you and all of them.

 

[P31Woman]

I am struggling with some issues and would like some advice. Our oldest daughter entered college this past fall. The plan was that she would live on campus so we arranged for a dorm room with a full meal plan. So far, so good but here is where things begin to break down. Her boyfriend also entered college this fall at a location only about 10 miles from her. I sure you are probably beginning to catch where I am going with this. My wife and I had our concerns about the close proximity of their locations but I kept telling her that she is over 18 and an adult and we must trust our daughter. Besides, if she didn’t have a boyfriend she would likely meet people at the college and anyone of interest will probably live much closer. At that point I was figuring we were in the throes of cutting the umbilical cord.

As it happens we use Progressive auto insurance and this past fall we decided to try out their new Snapshot® program on all four of our vehicles including the one our college kid was driving. This program involves installing an electronic device in the vehicle that reports miles driven, hours driven, and number of hard stops over a given time period.

In the process of checking out the data on our vehicles and comparing our driving “skills” we inadvertently discovered that our daughter was often making a 12 mile drive in the early morning before classes. The obvious explanation is that she was not staying at her dorm but was spending the night at her boyfriend’s and having to drive to class in the mornings.

My wife indicated to me that our daughter had always assured her that she would save herself for marriage. This is something we had talked about quite a bit as she was growing up. When we discovered this information my wife confronted our daughter. She insisted that she was sleeping on the sofa but I am no fool. I told my wife that despite what we know is likely true, without hard evidence we must continue to trust our daughter but let her know that she is making a huge mistake. I told our daughter that she was playing with fire and reinforced how important it is for her to not put herself in a place where she will be tempted. I warned her about how an unwanted pregnancy would put her college ambitions on hold if not totally ending them. I told her this is not only a concern for us but a concern with God himself as he considers sexual promiscuity, sexual immorality, and sex outside of marriage to be a sinful behavior.

Well, this past weekend our daughter confided in my wife that she is in fact using birth control and they are sexually active. Right now I am very disappointed to hear this news and I am having a difficult time dealing with my feelings toward her. I am afraid to talk to our daughter face-to-face about this. I don’t know what to do. Maybe I can’t do anything but hope and pray for the best.

As a result of this I have other concerns. I lead our High School Sunday School program in our church and I am also one of our deacons. Yesterday I was doing some digging through the Bible on an unrelated topic and came across 1 Timothy 1-13 and it struck a hard blow across my face.

1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

How can I in all honesty consider myself qualified to continue serving my church in these capacities when I can’t even keep my own house in order? We have Joshua 24:15 (“but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”) inscribed on our living room wall. I feel ashamed.

I respect you for having a heart for honoring God and am praying that God will give you clear guidance and peace. I also pray the Holy Spirit will continue to convict your daughter.

 

[EdenBorn]

My wife indicated to me that our daughter had always assured her that she would save herself for marriage.

As a Roman Catholic, I can tell you that this almost never happens. I would wager, in fact, that 99% of all Christians, even those of the Church which firmly teaches this moral all the time, do not actually remain in chastity until marriage.

The timing is, as it happens, usually near the end or post high school. As soon as they become more subject to the world, they usually end up having sex as a result.

The disappointment you have is understandable, as it's natural to want your child to do what is best. It is probable that she held just as strongly to reserving herself until marriage- but then she becomes a young adult, lives away from home, and is otherwise introduced to a much bigger world then high school.

Because of this, she doesn't have a consistent hand and eye, and so she starts to look for a companion. This is probably what she sees in her current boyfriend, and will drive out every morning to enforce that companionship.

Boys aren't allowed in girl dorms and if they aren't meeting up for coffee or a bite to eat, and she's simply going to his place of living, then it is easily deduced what they are doing. If she tells you something different, then she is probably being dishonest.

If she has already had sex and confides in this person, then there is little one can do unfortunately. The only real plausible thing is to get her off birth control. If she does that, not only will she be doing something to appease the natural order of God, she will be more wary of the boys she confides in.


All in all, if you do decide to put a tracking service on her insurance, don't let her know that you have it or reveal it to her in the future if you bust her chops. She will try to use it against you in saying you are overbearing even if you are simply trying to have some clarity.
Talk to her, but don't lose your esteem for her in the event she doesn't do what is best. It will only make her place a gap between you and herself, and the greater the gap, the more she will move in the opposite direction you want her to go in.

 

[John 8:32]

As a Roman Catholic, I can tell you that this almost never happens. I would wager, in fact, that 99% of all Christians, even those of the Church which firmly teaches this moral all the time, do not actually remain in chastity until marriage.

The timing is, as it happens, usually near the end or post high school. As soon as they become more subject to the world, they usually end up having sex as a result.

The disappointment you have is understandable, as it's natural to want your child to do what is best. It is probable that she held just as strongly to reserving herself until marriage- but then she becomes a young adult, lives away from home, and is otherwise introduced to a much bigger world then high school.

Because of this, she doesn't have a consistent hand and eye, and so she starts to look for a companion. This is probably what she sees in her current boyfriend, and will drive out every morning to enforce that companionship.

Boys aren't allowed in girl dorms and if they aren't meeting up for coffee or a bite to eat, and she's simply going to his place of living, then it is easily deduced what they are doing. If she tells you something different, then she is probably being dishonest.

If she has already had sex and confides in this person, then there is little one can do unfortunately. The only real plausible thing is to get her off birth control. If she does that, not only will she be doing something to appease the natural order of God, she will be more wary of the boys she confides in.

You have got to be kidding me. That will only result in a premarital pregnancy. I am not advocating premarital sex, it is a sin, but since they are sexually active, why compound the problem? Just because the Catholic church has no idea what the problem with Onan was, does that give you privelege to offer stupid advice?

Now, here is something to think about, who's paying for college? Don't you have the right to set some rules? While she is putting her feet under your table (you are paying for college, books, a dorm room and three squares) she needs to abide by your rules.

All in all, if you do decide to put a tracking service on her insurance, don't let her know that you have it or reveal it to her in the future if you bust her chops. She will try to use it against you in saying you are overbearing even if you are simply trying to have some clarity.
Talk to her, but don't lose your esteem for her in the event she doesn't do what is best. It will only make her place a gap between you and herself, and the greater the gap, the more she will move in the opposite direction you want her to go in.

Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Pro 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Correction isn't always a spanking (she is too old for that) but a reduction in priveleges and some tighter rules could save a lot of heartache later. Who is in charge in this situation? You or her?

 

[President]

I just wanted to share that I waited until marriage, until I was in my late 20's to have sex for the first time. My wife did, too. She was in her early 20's.

Just so you don't think young people can't wait.

I think part of the problem is parents letting teens date when they aren't looking for someone to marry. What's the point? To find someone to tempt yourself with sexually?