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What We Eat

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Pard

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So I have decided that I should search the scriptures for myself and, with God's help, come to a conclusion as to what I ought and what I ought not do. I think that this is a better solution then trying to conform to what man tells me the Bible says. I honestly feel that I have been instructed to search the Bible, find what is good and right, and do it. These decisions should be based partially upon my level of faith (also a lot on scriptural harmony, God's moving of me, and my own belief that much of the Word is seen and understood just through our lives and applying logic and reasoning on the matter. This last bit is something I've derived from Romans 1), and so the when I mature in faith I ought to reevaluate and make sure I am doing the utmost for God's glory. Just in the same way that a man going to a more casual or "liberal" church is just as much a Christian as the man going to the more strict or "conservative" church. Each church serves a purpose, because everyone is at a different stage in their faith-life. Some are stronger in faith than others, and those who are stronger can believe more of the Bible than others. Neither man going to be turned away from the gates of Heaven, because even the faith of a mustard seed is enough for Christ.

Now one of the things I have come to in my search is the topic of food and what to eat and what not to eat. It's kind of clear in the Old Testament (starting way back in Genesis with Noah) that God has decided there are foods that are clean and there are foods that are unclean. In Leviticus He specifies what is and what is not clean, and I can only assume that He either told Noah or Noah already knew (for he, Noah, was the only righteous one of his day) what was clean and what was unclean.

And still, before the time of Leviticus we also see that there is a distinction in food, when we look at Daniel. He, Daniel, asked to each only vegetables and water for ten days and then, after ten days, they'd see if his diet made any PHYSICAL difference to that of the pagan king's diet. After ten days Daniel's diet was clearly better for the body. This, to me, shows that dietary rules set by God are clearly for more than ceremonial reasons, they have an intrinsic goodness about them.

I do believe that there are good things to eat and they ought be eaten and then there are bad things and they ought not be eaten. For example, "junk" food really is junk and it should be abstained from. It serves no purpose for the body, and in fact it prevents the body from being run at its maximum. Now some people will say that this is wrong. Junk food does serve a purpose, it's a "comfort" food. Well, does not the Bible say: "So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God."(1 Corinthians 10:31)? So yeah, "comfort" food isn't glorifying God, it's for your own self, and not for God in the least.

And what is junk food, really? It is good food that has been refined and processed until it is junkie. And, although maybe the Bible doesn't speak on it, to me it makes sense that this is junk. God made all things that are edible good, didn't He? With the exception of very basic refining, so as to even make the item edible (like wheat and most all grains, which require grinding or milling), why would God require any of His edible creations to be altered by man to be good? To me it seems rather obvious that good food need not be altered, and it makes sense from a health and what do you get out of it point of view as well. Whole wheat is better than regular wheat that has been refined and bleached. Corn is ok (although my body clearly has no need for it :biggrin ) but when you refine it you get corn syrup and this is not so good for you (but corn starch is ok, and that is just dried and ground, or milled, corn, just as wheat is just ground or milled).

So this is what I've been working on thus far. I'm not done by any stretch of the imagination, but it's coming along. If I were to rely on the Old Testament alone I'd be very certain about only eating clean meats as well. Currently I am trying to tackle that topic. The problem, of course, is that it's a VERY heard topic to tackle. Looking at it objectively it is a topic full of emotion because we all love our pork (and other yummy unclean meats). I do fear that part of my concluding upon this portion of the topic is going to end up having some bias towards the unclean, if only because I do love them so much. And I am curious what others think of this concept. Is all meat good and clean now? Or is it still as it was? Do gentiles count, even if it still is as it was or are we gentiles free from those "burdensome" rules?

I'll write a follow up post soon, but right now I am being asked to get off the computer, and so I shall!
 
I found the article below and they make some very good arguments. Anyone care to take a gander and give input? I expect most of the input will be against the article, but that's ok because I want to see this opposing view, since I really do find these arguments they make very compelling.

This article : http://www.pointsoftruth.com/foodlaw.html
 
I always have dilemma about pork. I love them and eat them all the time. I am not Jewish but sometime I wonder why God wouldn't like his chosen people to eat pork?

Am I unclean if I eat pork?
 
I always have dilemma about pork. I love them and eat them all the time. I am not Jewish but sometime I wonder why God wouldn't like his chosen people to eat pork?

Am I unclean if I eat pork?
That's my same issue. Trying to work it through. The Temple was unclean when a pig was sacrificed at it and we are temples of God because the Holy Spirit dwells within us.

Touch question, and it's extra tough because it is a matter of both enjoyment for pork and also culture and history.

Dear Lord, at this very moment I am smelling BBQ! Gah!
 
That's my same issue. Trying to work it through. The Temple was unclean when a pig was sacrificed at it and we are temples of God because the Holy Spirit dwells within us.

Touch question, and it's extra tough because it is a matter of both enjoyment for pork and also culture and history.

Dear Lord, at this very moment I am smelling BBQ! Gah!

Yummy, I want a bite of it......

People told me, we are not Jewish, the rule doesn't apply to us. I hope that's true...
 
So this is what I've been working on thus far. I'm not done by any stretch of the imagination, but it's coming along. If I were to rely on the Old Testament alone I'd be very certain about only eating clean meats as well. Currently I am trying to tackle that topic. The problem, of course, is that it's a VERY heard topic to tackle. Looking at it objectively it is a topic full of emotion because we all love our pork (and other yummy unclean meats). I do fear that part of my concluding upon this portion of the topic is going to end up having some bias towards the unclean, if only because I do love them so much. And I am curious what others think of this concept. Is all meat good and clean now? Or is it still as it was?

Pard, I think that the New Testament makes it quite clear that all meats have been made clean and I have no doubts for that conclusion. There is a passage in the Old Testament that I would like to point you to for consideration on your quest:

Deuteronomy 12:14-16 ( KJV ) 14 But in the place which the LORD shall choose in one of thy tribes, there thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, and there thou shalt do all that I command thee. 15 Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee: the unclean and the clean may eat thereof, as of the roebuck, and as of the hart. 16 Only ye shall not eat the blood; ye shall pour it upon the earth as water.

When I read this, the place that the Lord chose from one of the tribes was Jesus. It was HE whom the the law commanded us to listen to (Deut 18:15). And it is here we are told that we may eat of the clean and the unclean alike. And just like Noah, the only command was to not eat the blood.
 
Deuteronomy 12:14-16 ( KJV ) 14 But in the place which the LORD shall choose in one of thy tribes, there thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, and there thou shalt do all that I command thee. 15 Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee: the unclean and the clean may eat thereof, as of the roebuck, and as of the hart. 16 Only ye shall not eat the blood; ye shall pour it upon the earth as water

I don't currently hold the belief that I cannot eat me some unclean animal, as evident in the fact that I just had shrimp and pork for dinner, but I do think the interpretation of the scripture above is wrong. I thought I saw where you were going and I was in full agreement until I did two things; 1) read the entire of that scripture reference and 2) read it in a different (and more comprehensible) translation.

Here is the part that we are really getting at:

15 Nevertheless, you may slaughter your animals in any of your towns and eat as much of the meat as you want, as if it were gazelle or deer, according to the blessing the Lord your God gives you. Both the ceremonially unclean and the clean may eat it. (NIV)

Easier on my brain now that it is in modern english. And see, they are talking about how both the clean and the unclean can eat together. Now I am not 100% sure on who is clean and who isn't, however I do know that it is one of two options.

Option 1: The clean are the priests and the unclean are the rest of the bunch

Option 2: The clean are the Jews and the unclean are the Levites, who God instructed the Jews to live with. See verse 19 of that chapter:

19 Be careful not to neglect the Levites as long as you live in your land.
 
Pard

Well, I was going to say that you must decide whether the Christian is under the Law or not. I see you’ve already made that decision.

In that case, the Bible is of no use to you regarding what you eat. Daniel was under the Law. Proverbs was written to people under the Law. As was the rest of the Old Testament. There’s nothing in the New Testament that speaks to the issue except perhaps Acts 15. And that was just a prescription to a particular “church”.

So all you have now is your common sense and the current state of preventative medicine.

Hopefully, your common sense is developed enough to keep you from eating people. Not eating people is covered in the Law that include people descriptively with the unclean animals that are not to be eaten. No hoofs.

NC
 
Pard

Well, I was going to say that you must decide whether the Christian is under the Law or not. I see you’ve already made that decision.

In that case, the Bible is of no use to you regarding what you eat. Daniel was under the Law. Proverbs was written to people under the Law. There’s nothing in the New Testament that speaks to the issue except perhaps Acts 15. And that was just a prescription to a particular “churchâ€.

So all you have now is your common sense and the current state of preventative medicine.

Hopefully, your common sense is developed enough to keep you from eating people. Not eating people is covered in the Law that includes descriptively people with the unclean animals that are not to be eaten. No hoofs.

NC

You don't realize how much that actually helped me! Thank you VERY much! :clap

And by the way, very funny about not being able to eat humans since we don't have hooves, gave me a good chuckle!

And for those wondering why it helped me so very much:

it is my firm belief, as I have repeatedly said in previous topics, that the Law was designed to be impossible to follow, except obviously for Jesus. This is because the Law is a ruler and when measured against it ALL men are sinful and ALL men thus need Jesus to right them of their sinfulness.
 
Pard

I don't agree with the common view of the Law in Christianity. And your view as you stated it, as well. But that's irrelevant to this thread, seeing as this thread is based on your own view. So glad I could be of help.

Glad you liked my little joke. I hope you have a good reason not to eat humans. Being one myself. Other than Western sensibilities. Not all Christians are from the West or have Western sensibilities.

The Law is clear on the matter. Christians have to come up with their own reasons as to what and what not to eat. And going by personal experience, Christians will eat just about anything the culture has to offer. Some gourmet Christians a little more. Some Christians who see no reason to care, since our days are numbered anyway, are eating junk food, and loving it.

NC
 
I always have dilemma about pork. I love them and eat them all the time. I am not Jewish but sometime I wonder why God wouldn't like his chosen people to eat pork?

Am I unclean if I eat pork?

Lynx

Kosher is a lessen or teaching in discernment of what is acceptable Spiritual food. As in, should one believe what is said, and should one trust the source of what is being said.
 
So no, you are not unclean because you ate pork.
Acts:10:11: And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13: And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14: But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15: And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16: This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.


But if one is Jewish, then he agrees to eat Kosher for as long he is Jewish.
 
Lynx

Kosher is a lessen or teaching in discernment of what is acceptable Spiritual food. As in, should one believe what is said, and should one trust the source of what is being said.
 
So no, you are not unclean because you ate pork.
Acts:10:11: And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13: And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14: But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15: And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16: This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.


But if one is Jewish, then he agrees to eat Kosher for as long he is Jewish.

Good call on bringing up Acts 10!
 
Good call on bringing up Acts 10!


Not exactley because most people stop short. Look at Peters response he argued against the voice saying Not so! I have never eaten any unclean thing. Amazing that long after the crucifiction Peter the so called father of the church still abided in Torah. Nothing indicates he started to eat unclean meats either. IN FACT if you bother to read further you see he pondered this vision in his heart for quite sometime. It isnt until upon meeting Cornelious that he finally understood what the vision had meant and what Yehovah was trying to show Peter. Now! He finally understood and he said: That he was not to call any man (not animal) unclean that which God called clean namely Cornelious. I also want to add that it says Cornelious was of a good report amongst the nation of the Jews. I can garantee you if he was a pig eating sunday sabbath keeping idol worshipping Gentile they would have thought of Cornelious much differently.

Consider Yehovahs Torah also translated as instruction, guidance or wisdom and of course law. At the end of the creation God said it was good. I take this to mean the pig too as it has a purpose since God created it.

I have come to consider three reasons why we should not eat what the Creator considers unclean. If you look at the unclean meats they have a similarity they are created to eat what we throw outside the camp. They eat the garbage, feces, rot and carrian. Apparently He did not create the pig or dog to be eaten rather to be he made them to be garbage collectors, so are certain shell fish and the sorts aswell as other animals. Outside of that I have considered some of these were used in pagan rituals so maybe He didnt want us to be associated with that either.

But first and foremost I think we should not eat them is for the same reason many parents are with their children and certain foods. Because He commanded us not too. Avinue knows whats best for us especially since he made it.
 
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Pard, you said, "Now one of the things I have come to in my search is the topic of food and what to eat and what not to eat. It's kind of clear in the Old Testament (starting way back in Genesis with Noah) that God has decided there are foods that are clean and there are foods that are unclean. In Leviticus He specifies what is and what is not clean, and I can only assume that He either told Noah or Noah already knew (for he, Noah, was the only righteous one of his day) what was clean and what was unclean."

This is something that many Christians stumble over, I did for a long, long time...

The "clean and unclean" animals that God sent to Noah were for sacrifice... not eating. Until Noah disembarked from the ark, no man from Adam to Noah, ever ate an animal. Or, if they did, they did so outside of God's will. There is no record of any animal being consumed as food.

Now, sacrifices show up prior to the Flood... we see that right away with Cain and Able. Some consider (I do myself) the animal that God slayed to clothe Adam and Eve as the first sacrifice.

But, in Genesis 1:29-30 makes it clear that all were created vegetarian. "Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for foodâ€; and it was so."

No one, not even lions, tigers or bears, ate meat at that point.

There is no record of any animal flesh being consumed for meat until after Noah got off the ark, and then God gave Noah ALL the animals as food... not just the "clean" ones, but all the animals.

Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant. Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. Genesis 9:3-4.

"Clean" and "unclean" animals for food is a part of the Mosiac Law... only that and nothing more. Jesus fulfilled the Law on the cross and therefore all animals are OK for food.. or one can certainly go "back to the garden" and be a vegan... It's something we have full freedom in.
 
"Clean" and "unclean" animals for food is a part of the Mosiac Law... only that and nothing more. Jesus fulfilled the Law on the cross and therefore all animals are OK for food.. or one can certainly go "back to the garden" and be a vegan... It's something we have full freedom in.

Not entirely so either, Noah was instructed to take seven each of the clean animals and two of each of the unclean animals. So apparently there seems to have been already established some instruction which given man as to how to differentiate between the two prior to the written instruction given to Moses.

I think sometimes the written instruction given to Moses was like a last ditch effort on Gods part to make easy to understand His guidance and not forget what He said. Forgive me but ots almost like was saying: oh fer cryin out loud. Do I need to write it down for you too? :lol
 
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Not entirely so either, as Noah was instructed to take seven each of the clean animals and two of each of the unclean animals. So apparently there may have been some instruction given to man as to how to differentiate between the two prior to the written instruction given to Moses.
I don't disagree, but these animals were for sacrifices, not for food... perhaps they were kept for milk, wool and eggs as well, but we do not see any example at all of any man eating animal flesh prior to the Flood...

... and after the Flood, Genesis 9:3-4 can't make it any clearer that ALL animals were OK to eat.

I think sometimes the written instruction given to Moses was like a last ditch effort on Gods part to make easy to understand His guidance and not forget what He said. Like oh fer cryin out loud. Do I have to write it down for you too?:lol
Yeah... I could see the Lord leaning that way...:)
But, the Law of Moses was far more than a "last ditch" effort... It was not only the civil code for the nation of Israel, but also the means by which we are convicted of our sins before God...

Which would be a whole nuther discussion...

As for this discussion, I really do want to stress that the clean and unclean animals in Genesis were for sacrifices, not for food. Prior to the flood, no animal was consumed and afterwards God gave every animal for food...

I think if more Christians would understand this, we wouldn't get so hung up about food. As it is, we have a lot of freedom. We can be totally vegetarian, as were the people prior to the flood (although I think the plants were more nutritious back then)... or we can follow the dietary laws of the Israelite's, as long as we are doing so because we believe God's diet would be a good one to follow and not because we think we are under those laws... Or we can be a complete omnivore... We have that freedom in Christ.
 
I don't disagree, but these animals were for sacrifices, not for food... perhaps they were kept for milk, wool and eggs as well, but we do not see any example at all of any man eating animal flesh prior to the Flood...

... and after the Flood, Genesis 9:3-4 can't make it any clearer that ALL animals were OK to eat.

Yeah... I could see the Lord leaning that way...:)
But, the Law of Moses was far more than a "last ditch" effort... It was not only the civil code for the nation of Israel, but also the means by which we are convicted of our sins before God...

Which would be a whole nuther discussion...

As for this discussion, I really do want to stress that the clean and unclean animals in Genesis were for sacrifices, not for food. Prior to the flood, no animal was consumed and afterwards God gave every animal for food...

I think if more Christians would understand this, we wouldn't get so hung up about food. As it is, we have a lot of freedom. We can be totally vegetarian, as were the people prior to the flood (although I think the plants were more nutritious back then)... or we can follow the dietary laws of the Israelite's, as long as we are doing so because we believe God's diet would be a good one to follow and not because we think we are under those laws... Or we can be a complete omnivore... We have that freedom in Christ.

Yes it is true there does seem to be some issues in the area what was given to man for instruction prior to the instruction given to Moses. But I would hesitate to add what the animals were used for. Certainly they had a purpose as God created them and there is scriptural evidence to support an instruction governing clean and unclean animals long before Moses came on scene.

Its one of those lessons I learned apply here. Where scripture is dogmatic then we can be dogmatic. When it is vague, then we should be vague. When it is silent then we too should remain silent.

But I being retired military like a good soldier will follow my last orders. :salute
 
I always have dilemma about pork. I love them and eat them all the time. I am not Jewish but sometime I wonder why God wouldn't like his chosen people to eat pork?

Am I unclean if I eat pork?
no, you were never under the torah. context tells you to whom it applied to(isreal)

im a jew and im not kosher.
 
Not exactley because most people stop short. Look at Peters response he argued against the voice saying Not so! ....

I was merely happy that someone brought it up because I do think it is relevant. I, for one, do not stop short and I know the account well. I absolutely agree with the primary reason for the vision Peter received... It was to not call any man unclean. I acknowledge that it was a vision, and that Peter refused it, and it never says he actually ever did eat unclean meat with Cornelius.

Still, God used the unclean meats as an example and he DID tell Peter to eat. I don't see any reason for God to use an example of one thing (unclean meats) just to show a greater message (the handling of the Gentiles) without approving of the first. So yes, he was talking about Peter accepting the Gentiles, but he also did say the meat was now clean and called it clensed.

The kingdom of God is likened to a grain of mustard seed. You know the parable, I'm sure! It's talking about the Kingdom, but it is no less true for the mustard seed. Likewise, God used unclean meats which is clensed to show the Gentiles were now to be clensed too.
 
exodus(shemot) was written first by oral traditions and per nachimedes then beersherit(genesis) this means that the first book of the torah was written with the bias of moses with the laws given to him to eat. that is why he said cleand and unclean. so that the hebrews would know what he meant. if theres more on this by nachimedes and i have the time to post it i will.
 
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