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Has anyone read this book? What do you think of it? :angel:
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irishrain
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Catlover
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irishrain said:
I am surprised people feel so negative about it. I got the impression that it was about submitting to God's will.
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Catlover
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sparrow said:
LOL, I start it and never finish. :-D What I read seems to be about finding out God's will.
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soma
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I read the book I didn't find anything negative about it. I wish it would have gone deeper, but now I know why it didn't because of all the resistance against it. I think those kind of books are necesary, if we want to understand ourselves. I hope he is not crucified or burned at the stake for writing it.
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Imagican
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It was accepted and promoted by the churches. As with 'anything' that man 'runs' to, probably to be avoided at 'all costs'. Nothing more than man trying to 'teach' man his 'own' feeble understanding. Once again, men unable to 'trust' in God, yet able to place their faith in their fellow man. Otherwise, this information would have been offered for 'free' rather than someone making a 'profit' from the 'truth'.
Folks, you'll find that there will always be those without a relationship with the Father through His Son that will 'run' to 'anything' that 'seems' to offer 'purpose'. It's funny that they are unable to find this 'purpose' in God Himself.
I have never read the book and read little Bible 'interpretation' for the simple fact that 'if' 'IF' God so desires that I understand His will, it will be offered. If not, then it doesn't matter how hard 'I' try, it will be hidden from me. By reading what others offer as 'their' understanding, the most I could possibly gain from it is 'their' understanding. I would certainly rather rely on the understanding offered by the Father than ANY man. Since we are all mostly uncertain about much of God's will, it is very easy to be swayed by those that 'indicate' that their understanding is 'greater'. Unfortunately this tendency often leads 'many' in man's direction instead of God's.
Men following men instead of God is nothing more than the 'blind leading the blind'. The Bible was created for a purpose. Yes, there is certainly a 'need' for many to be 'taught' what is in it. Some folks can't read and there are others that certainly aren't able to understand what they read. But, when we become reliant upon 'others' to teach us, then we set ourselves up to be led astray.
Look, Christ sat a child on His knee and explained to His followers that the kingdom of heaven would be inherited by such as these. He wasn't simply referring to children because of their 'young age', he was referring to their 'innocence' as far as 'evil' is concerned. ANYONE that opens their hearts to God's love is capable of knowing 'all that they need' in order to 'please God'. The churches would teach something different than this but I promise you that those that 'follow' God through their hearts are plenty capable of 'pleasing' God with or without a 'church'.
You know, in the beginning, there WAS NO BIBLE. Those that were filled with the Spirit wrote the pieces that became the Bible. The indication here is that with fastings, prayer and obedience, there is possibly NO NEED for a Bible. There is much indication that God is PLENTY capable of offering His will and His Word without it being written in ink. All the reference to circumcision of the heart is exactly this. God's changing the hearts of those that follow His will.
A personal relationship with the Father through His Son is what we should ALL seek. It takes individual effort though and many that follow the churches are not taught to take this initiative. They are taught to be 'completely reliant' upon a building and the one leading it. How impotent that tends to make 'our God'? How insignificant does that make the power of the Holy Spirit? When one would place such significance on a book written and 'sold' rather than one 'freely' offering the love of God?
If anything stated here makes sense to you, flee the ideology of man. If it doesn't, then I suggest that you be 'followers' of men rather than their servants.
Folks, you'll find that there will always be those without a relationship with the Father through His Son that will 'run' to 'anything' that 'seems' to offer 'purpose'. It's funny that they are unable to find this 'purpose' in God Himself.
I have never read the book and read little Bible 'interpretation' for the simple fact that 'if' 'IF' God so desires that I understand His will, it will be offered. If not, then it doesn't matter how hard 'I' try, it will be hidden from me. By reading what others offer as 'their' understanding, the most I could possibly gain from it is 'their' understanding. I would certainly rather rely on the understanding offered by the Father than ANY man. Since we are all mostly uncertain about much of God's will, it is very easy to be swayed by those that 'indicate' that their understanding is 'greater'. Unfortunately this tendency often leads 'many' in man's direction instead of God's.
Men following men instead of God is nothing more than the 'blind leading the blind'. The Bible was created for a purpose. Yes, there is certainly a 'need' for many to be 'taught' what is in it. Some folks can't read and there are others that certainly aren't able to understand what they read. But, when we become reliant upon 'others' to teach us, then we set ourselves up to be led astray.
Look, Christ sat a child on His knee and explained to His followers that the kingdom of heaven would be inherited by such as these. He wasn't simply referring to children because of their 'young age', he was referring to their 'innocence' as far as 'evil' is concerned. ANYONE that opens their hearts to God's love is capable of knowing 'all that they need' in order to 'please God'. The churches would teach something different than this but I promise you that those that 'follow' God through their hearts are plenty capable of 'pleasing' God with or without a 'church'.
You know, in the beginning, there WAS NO BIBLE. Those that were filled with the Spirit wrote the pieces that became the Bible. The indication here is that with fastings, prayer and obedience, there is possibly NO NEED for a Bible. There is much indication that God is PLENTY capable of offering His will and His Word without it being written in ink. All the reference to circumcision of the heart is exactly this. God's changing the hearts of those that follow His will.
A personal relationship with the Father through His Son is what we should ALL seek. It takes individual effort though and many that follow the churches are not taught to take this initiative. They are taught to be 'completely reliant' upon a building and the one leading it. How impotent that tends to make 'our God'? How insignificant does that make the power of the Holy Spirit? When one would place such significance on a book written and 'sold' rather than one 'freely' offering the love of God?
If anything stated here makes sense to you, flee the ideology of man. If it doesn't, then I suggest that you be 'followers' of men rather than their servants.
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Imagican
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http://www.biblebb.com/files/tonyqa/tc03-148.htm
After my post, I googled 'the purpose driven life'. Here is what I found. The reviews seem universal. Funny how some things that 'should seem' so obvious from a Christian standpoint are so often obscure in the eyes of the churches.
After my post, I googled 'the purpose driven life'. Here is what I found. The reviews seem universal. Funny how some things that 'should seem' so obvious from a Christian standpoint are so often obscure in the eyes of the churches.
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Eskarina
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Just a glance at the text, sitting on my mother's coffee table put a bitter taste in my mouth. I have an intense dislike for self-help books and that's what it reminded me of. I ignored it after that and it occurs to me that perhaps I should have checked it out early and advised my mother that it wasn't all it seems.
While he does have some good points, from what I've read, the are largely twisted into a very human-based Christianity.
"Breath Prayers" as he calls them, can lead down two paths. The good one being the pursuit of a constant closeness to God through prayers not confined to morning, bedtime, and meals. They can also, however, turn into an almost meditative affair based on releasing your problems to the winds rather than drawing closer to God. The idea of "practicing" borders on saying that we can succeed in closeness to God based on our own merit. Alternatively, it is good for us to constantly put effort into our prayer lives. I've heard many sermons on leading lives of prayer.
On the matter of his use of the Scriptures, it is definitely wrong to use partial verses and to take verses out of their context. You can really screw things up if you, for example, Romans 7:10 says
"I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life
actually brought death.
This is a tiny piece of a message talking about how we cannot be perfect under the law, but that Jesus makes us so before God. It looks pretty dismal and despairing out of context, doesn't it. A wise man, while he will not take scriptures out of context, nor examine multiple versions for the sake of finding one that suits a stance he wants to take, will readily read and cross-reference different biblical translations to assure that one does not lead him from the essential meaning of the passage. You cannot deny that the bible, in English, has certainly lost some accuracy of language from the original text and so we must prepare ourselves to cope with that. God didn't give us minds so that we would not think.
That's all I have to say for now, because I have class soon, but thisz interests me and I'm going to keep checking on this thread.
While he does have some good points, from what I've read, the are largely twisted into a very human-based Christianity.
"Breath Prayers" as he calls them, can lead down two paths. The good one being the pursuit of a constant closeness to God through prayers not confined to morning, bedtime, and meals. They can also, however, turn into an almost meditative affair based on releasing your problems to the winds rather than drawing closer to God. The idea of "practicing" borders on saying that we can succeed in closeness to God based on our own merit. Alternatively, it is good for us to constantly put effort into our prayer lives. I've heard many sermons on leading lives of prayer.
On the matter of his use of the Scriptures, it is definitely wrong to use partial verses and to take verses out of their context. You can really screw things up if you, for example, Romans 7:10 says
"I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life
actually brought death.
This is a tiny piece of a message talking about how we cannot be perfect under the law, but that Jesus makes us so before God. It looks pretty dismal and despairing out of context, doesn't it. A wise man, while he will not take scriptures out of context, nor examine multiple versions for the sake of finding one that suits a stance he wants to take, will readily read and cross-reference different biblical translations to assure that one does not lead him from the essential meaning of the passage. You cannot deny that the bible, in English, has certainly lost some accuracy of language from the original text and so we must prepare ourselves to cope with that. God didn't give us minds so that we would not think.
That's all I have to say for now, because I have class soon, but thisz interests me and I'm going to keep checking on this thread.
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soma
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Christians should not be afraid of education. Good Christians develope themselves physically and mentally to better serve the Lord spiritually. If you are afraid to read a book don't put down authors or people who do read and want to learn. We were given a body and a mind to use to serve the Lord. Putting blinders on the mind so you don't have to think doesn't serve the Lord. You need to open your mind and your heart then you will understand the Bible and receive the HOly Spirit.
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Eskarina
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soma said:
Thank you for that point soma. Knowledge is very important which is why people want to know about this book before they read it and take the teachings to heart. Too many Christians today do nothing but let themselves be spoon-fed their spirituality, and will take as truth whatever they hear a pastor say, or read in a book.
I believe there is a verse in the gospels where Jesus admits to his disciples his exasperation at their need for "milk" instead of "meat". Some people are like that today. Heck, I was like that until a year or two ago. I thought that if the pastor said it then it was the gospel truth, so to speak. I know that pastors are trained and ordained and all that stuff, but that doesn't mean that they have all the answers or that they don't make mistakes.
Some people are still like I was (though I don't claim perfection now) and they can be easily astray with slight misguidances. People like this, and everyone is a bit like this. Need to know that what they are reading is good and scriptural. That's what we're trying to decide here.
tim-from-pa
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Well, everyone out there can do as I did. Instead of promoting a book, I challenged my congregation to read thru the bible in a year. Then, if an individual or class wants to study a book such as this, they may know enough as to what is scriptural or not.
Sometimes I think the problem with many folks is they want their theology wrapped up in a nice best-seller package and are too lazy to study the scriptures themselves.
As for my opinion of the book, I have none because I only read clips. I'm too busy reading my bible instead.
Sometimes I think the problem with many folks is they want their theology wrapped up in a nice best-seller package and are too lazy to study the scriptures themselves.
As for my opinion of the book, I have none because I only read clips. I'm too busy reading my bible instead.
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Imagican
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soma said:
Much like watching 'The Passion' or reading 'any' book that attempts to 'teach' God's Word, the problem lies in being able to discern the difference between God's Word and the words of men.
There are many that viewed 'The Passion' and came away 'believing' that it was an accurate depiction of the 'story of Christ'. Anyone that has read the Bible quickly realizes that the movie was nothing 'more' than that; a movie.
So, from your reply above, I take it that any book that is written concerning God's Word or Christ is worthy of our acceptance and the 'knowledge' contained within? That, IMO, is a VERY dangerous approach to true 'learning'.
And, I offer this: The 'tree of knowledge' is what has brought about the 'state' with which man finds himself at in the present. I can think of NO knowledge that is of 'much' benefit to man other than that obtained for/by God. We are warned MANY MANY times throughout the Bible that the knowledge of man is 'foolishness' to God.
And I take it from your post that you would encourage people by challenging their will or intelligence. That tactic is very shaky my friend. And why would one assume that there is ANY thing of 'truth' or 'benefit' contained within a particular book? Knowledge is ONLY beneficial if it is 'truth' and I would have to question why someone would write a 'religious' book full of 'truth' and then charge 'money' for it. Should we have to pay for the 'truth' and if we have the 'truth', should we charge others to receive it?
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soma
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You need to read more. I didn't say that. Maybe if you take off your blinders you can see the words. No way was that said. You are saying that period. You sound like Jim Jones do what I say, don't listen to anyone else, don't develope your mind, and don't trust yourself. No wonder foreign children know more English than Americans.
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Eskarina
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soma said:
Woah soma, calm down! Imagican jumped down your throat a little but I'm sure he didn't intend to offend you. You both make valid points, though Imagican your points get clouded by your use of 'quotation marks'.
Point one: Knowledge is good if it is truth.
Point two: Truth cannot always be found in knowledge
Point three: God gave us discernment, through him, to seperate truth and lies
Point four: Patience and Self control are virtues.
Point five: We can't hide in our boxes and ignore the world because it can provide us with knowledge
Point six: We can't accept everything we see or read as truth.
I think that about covers it and I don't think that those points leave much room for debate. If you have any points to add, be my guest.
I thought the book was written with very good intentions, but a bit shallow. It dealt with obvious things the bible teaches like the golden rule, you get what you give, etc. I also didn't like the fact that one had to look in the appendix for the source of the verses and I found that many of them were indeed misquoted. It was basically a "how to" book which can serve a purpose, but I found it lacking in depth. 
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Imagican
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First:
If you are afraid to read a book don't put down authors or people who do read and want to learn.
This was your statement Soma. And from the gist of it I made my comment. It wasn't meant to cause resentment, it was only a question.
Eskarina,
Point five: We can't hide in our boxes and ignore the world because it can provide us with knowledge.
This may 'sound good' to you, but to me this is the exact 'opposite' of what we should believe. It's not a matter of 'hiding' but of 'separation' from that which is NOT of God. We were specifically commanded to do such.
Soma, I am not afraid to read anything. But, there are certainly some things that I will refrain from allowing to influence my 'walk'. I don't 'need' to read books on witchcraft to know that it exists. I don't need to read Playboy magazines in order to 'know' what's contained within it's pages. I simply offered that; since the 'people' and 'churches' were 'flocking' to it, then it is suspect from the 'beginning' of it's appearance. For, there will be those with itchy ears that will NOT be satisfied with 'truth' and will instead flock to that which offers 'their own' pleasure rather than wholesome 'truth' of God.
And, this doesn't even take in to consideration that after making my opinion clear, I then googled 'purpose driven life' and ALMOST ever review that I read concerning this book was universal in nature. Those that 'have' read it are almost unanimous in their opinions and these opinions closely mimic what I had already stated.
This thread was ABOUT opinion. I simply offered mine from a Biblical perspective. I would offer the same opinion on 'almost' all books written with the intent of 'teaching' others 'how to 'find' God' or 'their purpose'.
Pride is that which destroyed satan and caused the downfall of mankind. There is NO place for it in our 'walk' with the Lord. There is plenty of place for confidence in His Word, and there is given the authority of 'speaking it', but personal pride is that which is the destroyer of the relationship between our God through His Son.
If you are afraid to read a book don't put down authors or people who do read and want to learn.
This was your statement Soma. And from the gist of it I made my comment. It wasn't meant to cause resentment, it was only a question.
Eskarina,
Point five: We can't hide in our boxes and ignore the world because it can provide us with knowledge.
This may 'sound good' to you, but to me this is the exact 'opposite' of what we should believe. It's not a matter of 'hiding' but of 'separation' from that which is NOT of God. We were specifically commanded to do such.
Soma, I am not afraid to read anything. But, there are certainly some things that I will refrain from allowing to influence my 'walk'. I don't 'need' to read books on witchcraft to know that it exists. I don't need to read Playboy magazines in order to 'know' what's contained within it's pages. I simply offered that; since the 'people' and 'churches' were 'flocking' to it, then it is suspect from the 'beginning' of it's appearance. For, there will be those with itchy ears that will NOT be satisfied with 'truth' and will instead flock to that which offers 'their own' pleasure rather than wholesome 'truth' of God.
And, this doesn't even take in to consideration that after making my opinion clear, I then googled 'purpose driven life' and ALMOST ever review that I read concerning this book was universal in nature. Those that 'have' read it are almost unanimous in their opinions and these opinions closely mimic what I had already stated.
This thread was ABOUT opinion. I simply offered mine from a Biblical perspective. I would offer the same opinion on 'almost' all books written with the intent of 'teaching' others 'how to 'find' God' or 'their purpose'.
Pride is that which destroyed satan and caused the downfall of mankind. There is NO place for it in our 'walk' with the Lord. There is plenty of place for confidence in His Word, and there is given the authority of 'speaking it', but personal pride is that which is the destroyer of the relationship between our God through His Son.
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soma
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I feel the author wrote the book to help readers walk closer to God, Jesus, their family and others in the world by giving them a purpose. I think he has good intentions for others not pride in himself.
We are not perfect and should choose reading material that will make us better I agree with that, but limiting our reading list and realities that help one improve is fear because we need the tool of knowledge to explore the unknown and find a deeper meaning in the word of God. With options and alternatives ignorance is not bliss, but a self imposed limitation. The knowledge presented in different books should be used as a tool to unlock the unknown areas of of our minds so we can know Jesus even better. I don't think the book is bad, but I don't like the book because it could go deeper, but for some it could be the book to help them. A friend and good Christian lent me his book because it helped him.
We are not perfect and should choose reading material that will make us better I agree with that, but limiting our reading list and realities that help one improve is fear because we need the tool of knowledge to explore the unknown and find a deeper meaning in the word of God. With options and alternatives ignorance is not bliss, but a self imposed limitation. The knowledge presented in different books should be used as a tool to unlock the unknown areas of of our minds so we can know Jesus even better. I don't think the book is bad, but I don't like the book because it could go deeper, but for some it could be the book to help them. A friend and good Christian lent me his book because it helped him.
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Eskarina
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Imagican said:
I must assume that you are referencing the new testament passage about being "in the world" but not "of the world". It is true that we are not supposed to involve ourselves in worldly things, nor should we be reading such things as Playboy and other obviously sinful material. This does not mean that we should cripple our reading material. I can, for example, read Hitler's Mien Kampf without becoming a Nazi.
*Note: I don't want to be nasty about it but I have trouble reading through your posts because of the misuse and overuse of quotation marks. Nobody's grammar is perfect, but quotation marks are used for quotations or to separate what a person is saying from what they are doing (ex: Myria turned and exclaimed, "Oh, there you are!")
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Imagican
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Actually they are apostrophes. I use them to emphasize certain words rather than use caps. Sorry. 
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Rather than continue this with a long drawn-out debate on what we should do with our 'spare' time, suffice is to say that the Bible is a very deep and meaningful book that one could spend their life-time reading and studying and still never understand it all. It is, however, the Word of God and without question, a 'good' book.
I have read a number of books written by a number of different pastors and such and find each and every one of them to be filled with more 'opinion' than 'truth'. And each and every time I find myself helpless to avoid a least a 'little' influence left behind no matter how sure I may be about my ability to discern.
I guess if knowledge is ones desire, reading is one way to obtain it. The question is, how aptly are we able to assimilate knowledge without letting it get in the way of our walk?
I have met people that have read 'purpose' yet have never even read the entire Bible. So, in these cases, do you think that they are capable of discerning whether or not it is a 'good' book? Much like those that watch movies based on Bible stories. Some of them are quite entertaining, but most are simply that; based on Bible stories. One that is unread in the Bible could certainly come away with a very twisted understanding of the true story of Exodus after watching 'The Ten Commandments'.
I simply feel that the Christian community would find their time better spent reading God's Word rather than allowing an individual that is making a profit from a 'how to' book influence their lives in a possible negative manor.
To each their own though and this thread asked for our opinions and this is mine. Once again, when a Christian sees the masses running a particular direction, it's probably not a bad idea to run the other way. This advice, of course, is just another one of my opinions.
: Rather than continue this with a long drawn-out debate on what we should do with our 'spare' time, suffice is to say that the Bible is a very deep and meaningful book that one could spend their life-time reading and studying and still never understand it all. It is, however, the Word of God and without question, a 'good' book.
I have read a number of books written by a number of different pastors and such and find each and every one of them to be filled with more 'opinion' than 'truth'. And each and every time I find myself helpless to avoid a least a 'little' influence left behind no matter how sure I may be about my ability to discern.
I guess if knowledge is ones desire, reading is one way to obtain it. The question is, how aptly are we able to assimilate knowledge without letting it get in the way of our walk?
I have met people that have read 'purpose' yet have never even read the entire Bible. So, in these cases, do you think that they are capable of discerning whether or not it is a 'good' book? Much like those that watch movies based on Bible stories. Some of them are quite entertaining, but most are simply that; based on Bible stories. One that is unread in the Bible could certainly come away with a very twisted understanding of the true story of Exodus after watching 'The Ten Commandments'.
I simply feel that the Christian community would find their time better spent reading God's Word rather than allowing an individual that is making a profit from a 'how to' book influence their lives in a possible negative manor.
To each their own though and this thread asked for our opinions and this is mine. Once again, when a Christian sees the masses running a particular direction, it's probably not a bad idea to run the other way. This advice, of course, is just another one of my opinions.
