What's your favorite OSAS passage?

[Jethro Bodine]

The question is "why does the Word of God abide in me forever"?

Because you have faith to the end.

Is it because I do it in my own strength or is it because the Spirit of God will never let go of me?

The Spirit of God is not the one who does the letting go.

How can I say "I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever" if there is a chance that I will fall away?

When? When one becomes the kind of soil in which the Word of God planted in it won't be uprooted; that's how one can say that. I don't have a problem thinking there are people who not only get to this place, but know they are at that place.

Perhaps you are one of those and that is why it is hard for you to fathom the possibility that the Bible talks about believers rejecting the word of God to their own eternal destruction. It was hard for me to fathom, too, for many years. Then the winds of adversity began to blow and I began to understand.

As I said, I believe that there are believers who have the quality of soil (type four soil, Luke 8:15 NASB) that will not reject the Word of God planted in it--people who have honest and good hearts and who hold fast the word planted in them, and who in faith and perseverance bring forth it's fruit. But obviously, those of type two soil have no basis upon which to say with David that they will dwell in the house of the Lord Forever:

13 "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

Perhaps someday they will become the kind of soil that David and others had, the soil that does not reject what's planted in it but will hold onto it in continued faith to the end. But to say all believers have that kind of soil is just plain wrong, otherwise Jesus would not have spoken about people who believe for a while but then fall away in the verse above.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Because you have faith to the end.


The Spirit of God is not the one who does the letting go.


When? When one becomes the kind of soil in which the Word of God planted in it won't be uprooted; that's how one can say that. I don't have a problem thinking there are people who not only get to this place, but know they are at that place.

Perhaps you are one of those and that is why it is hard for you to fathom the possibility that the Bible talks about believers rejecting the word of God to their own eternal destruction. It was hard for me to fathom, too, for many years. Then the winds of adversity began to blow and I began to understand.

As I said, I believe that there are believers who have the quality of soil (type four soil, Luke 8:15 NASB) that will not reject the Word of God planted in it--people who have honest and good hearts and who hold fast the word planted in them, and who in faith and perseverance bring forth it's fruit. But obviously, those of type two soil have no basis upon which to say with David that they will dwell in the house of the Lord Forever:

13 "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

Perhaps someday they will become the kind of soil that David and others had, the soil that does not reject what's planted in it but will hold onto it in continued faith to the end. But to say all believers have that kind of soil is just plain wrong, otherwise Jesus would not have spoken about people who believe for a while but then fall away in the verse above.

Dear Brother Jethro,
If you could somehow convince to me that I could lose mu salvation, then what have you done?
Please explain the value, the edification of it all?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Dear Brother Jethro,
If you could somehow convince to me that I could lose mu salvation, then what have you done?
Please explain the value, the edification of it all?

It will remind you to stay in the faith so you won't be lost on the Day of Judgment.
God does not want any of us to be deceived about being prepared for that Day.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me All the days of my life; And I will dwell in the house of the Lord Forever. Psalm 23:6

If God has "spoken this verse to you personally", and it has become Rhema to you, then that is great.

Let's not ignore who actually spoke these word's, and let's not try to apply this verse to everyone, as the OSAS folks try to do.

A Psalm of David. The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. Psalm 23:1

Direct Interpretation = these are the word's that King David literally spoke, and was penned by his scribe, and became scripture for us to read and be taught.


Prophetic Implication = These word's prophetically apply to Jesus. If we examine the context, I think you will agree.

1 To the Chief Musician. Set to 'The Deer of the Dawn.' A Psalm of David. My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me? Why are You so far from helping Me, And from the words of My groaning... Psalm 22:1



16 For dogs have surrounded Me; The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet;


18 They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots. Psalm 22:1,7-8,16,18




David, by the Spirit records the words of Jesus, even as He descends down to the heart of the earth...

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; For You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me
Psalm 23:4

As Jonah also says by the Spirit, about this -

And he said: "I cried out to the Lord because of my affliction, And He answered me. "Out of the belly of Sheol I cried, And You heard my voice.
Jonah 2:2


So if the Lord has spoken this to you as a word of "personal application", or "Rhema", then you sir are truly blessed.


JLB

Dear JLB,
What are you saying?
Do you realize how much comfort people have received from Psalm 23 through the centuries by interpreting just as I have?
Have we all been deceived to be comforted this way?
You should write a book on "Why prophetic Psalms should not comfort you".

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It will remind you to stay in the faith so you won't be lost on the Day of Judgment.
God does not want any of us to be deceived about being prepared for that Day.

Okay, the day you convince of non-OSAS, I'll remember to come back to this post.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Dear Brother Jethro,
If you could somehow convince to me that I could lose mu salvation, then what have you done?

If you heed the message and are careful to not lose your faith you will be among the blocks of the building of God that pass through the fire safely because you are made of imperishable material, not perishable material that is burned up in the Judgment. And if I'm at all responsible for helping you do that, you will be my reward in the kingdom. I will rejoice over you just as you will rejoice over me.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Okay, the day you convince of non-OSAS, I'll remember to come back to this post.

Really, honestly, my dear brother (and I mean that with all my heart...if I was there we'd prolly be fishing right now), if you can see that the author of Hebrews was not lying about the potential for people sanctified by the blood of Christ to fall from their faith and be lost you'd see that OSAS no matter what, is simply not true.

"29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE." 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God. 32 But remember the former days, when *, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33 partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34 For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. 35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised. 37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY. 38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. 39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul." (Hebrews 10:29-39 NASB capitals in original)

This passage is probably what got me off the fence between OSAS and non-OSAS. These are saved, sanctified, enlightened, obedient, loving people who the author is warning not to shrink back into unbelief so they don't receive the judgment of the lost.

Thank God that you are way ahead of the Hebrews and are strong in faith for whom the possibility of falling is remote if not impossible. You're persevering in the faith and bearing the fruit of that faith, therefore you have great assurance of your salvation. The place God wants us all to get to.

 

[JLB]

Dear JLB,
What are you saying?
Do you realize how much comfort people have received from Psalm 23 through the centuries by interpreting just as I have?
Have we all been deceived to be comforted this way?
You should write a book on "Why prophetic Psalms should not comfort you".

Take comfort in this:

As long as the Lord is your Sheppard, then you will dwell in His house.

Turn from the Lord, In unbelief, and become lost, then you may not end up in His house forever more.

You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free, from false doctrine.


JLB

 

[Kenny_ms]

Could we discuss these verse's a little further, and compare how you and I interpret the meaning of what Jesus is teaching?


JLB

I think the obvious meaning of the verses are what you say.....God/Jesus is happy to have back what/who went astray.

The unobvious and very strong implication is that one can become unsaved, leave God, lose heaven, get out of the grace or however you want to put it. If someone asks me to explain how I get that from the verses, I'd probably just look at them funny lol and wonder what's wrong with them, then just realize denial can be a very strong thing

In a semi heated argument over OSAS, those two verses just popped out of my mouth. Whether it was miraculous or I was just super sharp at that moment, I don't know. Had I never heard of OSAS I would have never gotten out of those verses what I do now, there would have been no need to.

To me, and this is JMO, the idea is ludicrous and it goes without saying that saved people can get unsaved, and that is why there are no verses in the bible that directly touch on the issue.

I've probably been too candid already but since I think this is such an important issue and dangerous thing to teach, it get's worse:

I think a big part of this type thinking is it draws in some people because..."Now I can sin willy nilly and still go to heaven". I don't think it affects all like that, I have seen both..one family that never seems to take advantage of it and one that, when push comes to shove are some of the nastiest people I know, they are "pretenders" not doers. And yes, there are bad people in all types of churches, no matter what flavor is taught, but this would still be just the Church one might join if they want to be allowed to do what they want.

Because it essentially allows us to have the best of both worlds, it will interest a lot of people, if it interests a lot of people, one can create a thriving church around it and do quit well for themselves. It's just what some people want to hear. And I did say "some" as I want to make it clear, I know all don't take advantage of the possibilities in a church that teaches OSAS but still I not only think the idea is ridiculous, so ridiculous, I would have thought, if I hadn't heard about it with my own two ears, I'd a never even considered it a possibility. However, I do now see how one can get in there and twist a few things around, like verses on Grace for instance and get some to believe it's really true if they aren't paying close attention or if they simply want it to be true.

In the case of Rollo VS Jethro, and these are just some thoughts mind you, I think it may be close to what Jethro says, in that Rollo is so close to God, he just can't see anyone being able to fall away once they have truly latched on to God and understood what that means and it is impossible for some. Rollo may have so much faith, he is blind, and I should add, if we must be blind in any way, that would most certainly be the way to go.

Sorry bout the double post, thought I got rid of the one without the quote, I'll try again,
.
.

 

[JLB]

The unobvious and very strong implication is that one can become unsaved, leave God, lose heaven, get out of the grace or however you want to put it. If someone asks me to explain how I get that from the verses, I'd probably just look at them funny lol and wonder what's wrong with them, then just realize denial can be a very strong thing

Amen!

 

[JLB]

n a semi heated argument over OSAS, those two verses just popped out of my mouth.

Yes sir. The Holy Spirit.


JLB

 

[JLB]

.
Because it essentially allows us to have the best of both worlds, it will interest a lot of people, if it interests a lot of people, one can create a thriving church around it and do quit well for themselves. It's just what some people want to hear. And I did say "some" as I want to make it clear, I know all don't take advantage of the possibilities in a church that teaches OSAS but still I not only think the idea is ridiculous, so ridiculous, I would have thought, if I hadn't heard about it with my own two ears, I'd a never even considered it a possibility. However, I do now see how one can get in there and twist a few things around, like verses on Grace for instance and get some to believe it's really true if they aren't paying close attention or if they simply want it to be true.
.

Very well said, and very refreshing!


JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I'm OSAS.
Nothing said in this thread has changed that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm OSAS.
Nothing said in this thread has changed that.

Why do you think it necessary to be so adamant, to the point of anger it seems, about this doctrine?

Jethro life verse:

"17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another." (Romans 14:17-19 NASB)

 

[smaller]

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

If the basis of secure salvation resides with faulted man, simple logic would dictate salvation is not secure and can't be and never will be. Such salvation is merely salvation by chance. The chance that it might work out if your faults are sufficiently suppressed. But any honest person knows they have them, regardless.

Of course that isn't the case.

 

[JLB]

I'm OSAS.
Nothing said in this thread has changed that.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

If a person comes to be in Christ, then at some later time, then are disconnected from Him and throw in the fire, are they still somehow "saved', though they have been thrown in the fire and burned?

How is it that we come to be "in Christ"?




JLB

 

[reba]

Okay, the day you convince of non-OSAS, I'll remember to come back to this post.

you came back to this thread...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

you came back to this thread...

Now how did that happen?

 

[smaller]

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

If a person comes to be in Christ, then at some later time, then are disconnected from Him and throw in the fire, are they still somehow "saved', though they have been thrown in the fire and burned?

How is it that we come to be "in Christ"?
JLB

Entirely assumption on your part.

I might propose that people who promote possibly burning other believers in eternal fire have themselves been therein tossed to simmer for awhile and they can't see what happened to them, even though that kind of damnation drips from their every pore, along with self justifications as a side attachment.

People might understand that the judgment they heap upon others may very well be used upon themselves.

Nevertheless, in order to keep from falling into that pit personally, I believe such will be saved anyway. They are just temporarily ill.

 

[reba]