When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are elect ?

[reba]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Cornelius was regenerated

 

[glorydaz]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

God-fearing man, clearly stands out here. This is hardly an example to make your point. Cornelius was good because of God, because he was a God-fearing man.

Lots of people are God-fearing before they are saved. The Jews were God-fearing, were they all saved?
Fearing God is your criteria?

What of the centurion?

And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die. And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant. And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this: For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue. Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him, Lord, trouble not thyself: for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof: Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed. For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And they that were sent, returning to the house, found the servant whole that had been sick.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Cornelius was regenerated

Not until Simon came to tell him how to be saved.
Are you saying God-fearing is enough to be saved.

Regenerated means what to you? New birth? Born again?

 

[theLords]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Lots of people are God-fearing before they are saved. The Jews were God-fearing, were they all saved?
Fearing God is your criteria?

The point is that Cornelius was good because of God. If a Jew was truly God-fearing then he would have kept the Covenant and be saved. If the Jews kept their end of the Covenant, God could keep His.

What of the centurion?

And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die. And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant. And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this: For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue. Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him, Lord, trouble not thyself: for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof: Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed. For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And they that were sent, returning to the house, found the servant whole that had been sick.

Again, the Centurion's worth lied in his goodness and kindness toward God's people. The Centurion's worth, once again, is rooted in God.

God gets all the glory in both of these cases. You cannot ignore the Scripture that clearly goes against your teachings:

Matthew 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

 

[reba]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

i believe there was cross over time.. Searching for the correct words.. Things were different at the time of Jesus. the time between the OT and the NT I dont know if your grasping what i am trying to say.

Act 10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Cornelius had been 'schooled' by the Jews. Not all Jews were Hebrew.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Let me ask this. In this parable, those by the way side hear the word, but the devil takes away the word LEST THEY SHOULD BELIEVE AND BE SAVED. The word sown on good ground are those, WHICH IN AN HONEST AND GOOD HEART, hear the word and keep it and bring forth fruit. Where does this honest and good heart come from? The Word tells us God has given us a conscience, what is that for?

11Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

14And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

 

[theLords]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Let me ask this. In this parable, those by the way side hear the word, but the devil takes away the word LEST THEY SHOULD BELIEVE AND BE SAVED. The word sown on good ground are those, WHICH IN AN HONEST AND GOOD HEART, hear the word and keep it and bring forth fruit. Where does this honest and good heart come from? The Word tells us God has given us a conscience, what is that for?

Once again the glory falls on God. Only the Holy Spirit works the soil of one's heart to make it soft. Without the Holy Spirit, the heart remains hard.

 

[reba]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Job 23:16 For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:

Glorydaz do you believe man can save himself? your last posts sure sounds like it.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

The point is that Cornelius was good because of God. If a Jew was truly God-fearing then he would have kept the Covenant and be saved. If the Jews kept their end of the Covenant, God could keep His.



Again, the Centurion's worth lied in his goodness and kindness toward God's people. The Centurion's worth, once again, is rooted in God.

God gets all the glory in both of these cases. You cannot ignore the Scripture that clearly goes against your teachings:

Matthew 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Ah, but you're wrong. The Jews could not and did not keep the Covenant. That is precisely why the New and better Covenant was brought into being. The Jews were not saved by the keeping of the law.

"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins."

We aren't saved by being nice to God's people. There isn't enough keeping of the law, or doing good deeds that will earn us eternal life.

 

[reba]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

There is a difference between couldn't and wouldn't. God knew way back they couldn't.

 

[theLords]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Ah, but you're wrong. The Jews could not and did not keep the Covenant. That is precisely why the New and better Covenant was brought into being. The Jews were not saved by the keeping of the law.

They were justified by faith and the Law. I hope you don't abhor God's Law. Or do you think David is one who did not make it into the kingdom of God?

We aren't saved by being nice to God's people. There isn't enough keeping of the law, or doing good deeds that will earn us eternal life.

Who said anything about being saved? Now, you're changing the discussion. I distinctly spoke about the centurion's worth, because we have been discussing whether man is good or not. So far, you have been unable to prove using Scripture that man has any good outside of God.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

i believe there was cross over time.. Searching for the correct words.. Things were different at the time of Jesus. the time between the OT and the NT I dont know if your grasping what i am trying to say.

Act 10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Cornelius had been 'schooled' by the Jews. Not all Jews were Hebrew.

Whether Cornelius had been schooled by the Jews or not, he wasn't saved until he came by faith.
The law never saved anyone.

 

[reba]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

He soften his own heart? Its ok with me what ever you want to believe. Cornelius had a purpose a nicer one then Pharaoh but a purpose . God has chose folks through out history for His purposes and will most likely do so untel there is no more history to be,

 

[glorydaz]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Once again the glory falls on God. Only the Holy Spirit works the soil of one's heart to make it soft. Without the Holy Spirit, the heart remains hard.

All glory falls on God. No one is denying that. Man, however is made in the image of God so obviously we are not totally depraved.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

He soften his own heart? Its ok with me what ever you want to believe. Cornelius had a purpose a nicer one then Pharaoh but a purpose . God has chose folks through out history for His purposes and will most likely do so untel there is no more history to be,

I'm not sure what you're saying here. We know God draws all men to Himself. That's a powerful draw, no doubt. He created us in His image and instilled His laws in our conscience. Man is without excuse if they refuse the free gift God has offered. We can't say, "We couldn't help it...We didn't know...We had no choice."

 

[reba]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

 

[reba]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.


Pharaoh had to be pharaoh God planned it that way. Cornelius was part of the 'eye' opening of Peter. Pete had 'the ' vision and went o Cornelius' home. That was BIG deal...


Man fell in the Garden ...

 

[theLords]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

All glory falls on God. No one is denying that. Man, however is made in the image of God so obviously we are not totally depraved.

Tell that to Daniel Stinnett and Angela Johns:

Man pleads guilty to murder, rape of toddler
September 20, 2011

LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) — A Lexington man has pleaded guilty to killing, raping and sexually abusing a 2-year-old girl he was babysitting.

Brian Crabtree, who is 21, faces a possible life sentence in the 2008 death of Katelynn Stinnett after entering the plea Monday.

Police say Crabtree was watching the child and her brother while their father, Daniel Stinnett, was at work. The children's mother, Angela Johns, was estranged from Stinnett at the time.

Prosecutor Ray Larson told the Lexington Herald-Leader that he is recommending life without parole on the murder charge, 20 years each on rape and sodomy charges and five years each on two counts of sex abuse (http://bit.ly/qQkyRD). He says he did not seek the death penalty because Crabtree has a low IQ.

Sentencing was set for Nov. 4.

Source: http://www.chron.com/news/article/Man-pleads-guilty-to-murder-rape-of-toddler-2179289.php

 

[reba]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

I'm not sure what you're saying here. We know God draws all men to Himself. That's a powerful draw, no doubt. He created us in His image and instilled His laws in our conscience. Man is without excuse if they refuse the free gift God has offered. We can't say, "We couldn't help it...We didn't know...We had no choice."

We know God draws all men to Himself. That's a powerful draw, no doubt

You dont believe God's draw is more powerful than mans will.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

They were justified by faith and the Law. I hope you don't abhor God's Law. Or do you think David is one who did not make it into the kingdom of God?



Who said anything about being saved? Now, you're changing the discussion. I distinctly spoke about the centurion's worth, because we have been discussing whether man is good or not. So far, you have been unable to prove using Scripture that man has any good outside of God.

Justification comes through faith...not the law. No, I don't abhor God's Law, but it isn't the Law that saves us. The Law only points out our sin. Of course David was saved...through faith and the work of the cross.

Is this a trick question? I've never claimed man has any worth "outside of God." There is nothing that exists that is "outside of God".

For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

He is in all. He loves us (the whole world), therefore mankind is worth something as His creatures. He wouldn't have sent His Son to the cross if mankind didn't have worth.