When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are elect ?

[Grubal Muruch]

As a Calvinist, do you take into consideration (when witnessing to an unsaved world) that the person may or may not be the chosen elect ? Do you tell that person they must be of the elect to be saved ? If you don't, why not, what would be the harm ?

 

[Christ_empowered]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

I haven't yet tried to convert people, but I have shared my faith and my belief in Calvinism with some as-yet unconverted friends. I don't think "oh man, they're probably not Elect--I'm wasting my time" so much as I think "I hope this is the time when the Holy Spirit will move in their life and get them to the cross." Part of my own take on Calvinism is that since Salvation is God's business, you really have to hope that you're working with someone around the same time that the Holy Spirit chooses to work on them, too. Maybe God is working through you, you never know. I base this in part on my own conversion experience. Before I was thoroughly broken down and God moved in my life, Christians could talk to me till they were blue in the face and it didn't do any good; I thought it was foolishness, as the rest of the world thinks the holy things of God are foolishness. It wasn't until the time was right that I was receptive.

So...long story short: I assume that whomever I'm talking to just might be Elect, but I also realize that even if they are Elect, I can't convert them in my own strength--all I can do is hope that I say the right thing and demonstrate the right attitude in sync with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Danus]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

No.

Just as I would not teach someone how to change their oil when I'm actually teaching them to drive.

The unsaved that I come in contact with are placed there by God, or I'm placed there by God. It is not just election, it's unconditional election, which means God is not choosing "people" based on any attribute they possess, but on the will of God, not the will of man.

Election is not about the person, it's about God. This is where people twist Calvin, because they want to think they have some value or worthiness, or ability to be saved and that Calvin is saying God chooses people based on this "value". That's not what election means.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

No.

Just as I would not teach someone how to change their oil when I'm actually teaching them to drive.

The unsaved that I come in contact with are placed there by God, or I'm placed there by God. It is not just election, it's unconditional election, which means God is not choosing "people" based on any attribute they possess, but on the will of God, not the will of man.

Election is not about the person, it's about God. This is where people twist Calvin, because they want to think they have some value or worthiness, or ability to be saved and that Calvin is saying God chooses people based on this "value". That's not what election means.

With all due respect, I don't see why you believe people "twist" Calvin ? He makes it "quite" clear that man is "no good" (Although John 3:16 tells us that, "For God so loved the world (humans) that He gave His only begotten Son"

Have you ever read up on the history of John Calvin ?

 

[Danus]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

With all due respect, I don't see why you believe people "twist" Calvin ? He makes it "quite" clear that man is "no good" (Although John 3:16 tells us that, "For God so loved the world (humans) that He gave His only begotten Son"

Have you ever read up on the history of John Calvin ?

Man is no good. correct. John Calvin, also a man, Totally depraved. Are we talking about John Calvin the man? Because if we are then I'll tell you straight up I don't care for him. But if we are talking about Calvin's theology explained....then I have to say it's one of the most brilliant biblical explanations about the nature of God, man and salvation I've ever read, aside from the bible itself. Love it.

What does man not being good, have to do with God loving man?

 

[theLords]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

With all due respect, I don't see why you believe people "twist" Calvin ? He makes it "quite" clear that man is "no good" (Although John 3:16 tells us that, "For God so loved the world (humans) that He gave His only begotten Son"

Have you ever read up on the history of John Calvin ?

I'm not a Calvinists, but I do agree with some of his theological points. Perhaps, Calvin got the "man is no good" theology, from....the Bible?

Romans 3:10-12
New International Version (NIV)
10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.â€[a]

Footnotes:
Romans 3:12 Psalms 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Eccles. 7:20

 

[Gazelle]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

As a Calvinist, do you take into consideration (when witnessing to an unsaved world) that the person may or may not be the chosen elect ? Do you tell that person they must be of the elect to be saved ? If you don't, why not, what would be the harm ?

Clearly no.

I wonder what your background is Grubal Muruch, because you seem to become hung up upon certain topics. Are you well?

This has been responded to time after time.

Calvinists do not decide who goes to heaven, who will accept Christ and who won't. That, I believe we all agree upon, is GOD'S doing.

No one knows who will accept Christ. Jesus clearly taught we are to go into ALL the world. Some of us sow, some of us reap.

I have never. ever told someone they might be one of God's elect and they should yadda yadda yadda. In fact, the thought never enters my mind! When you talk to someone in leading them to Christ you talk about--- Christ!

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Man is no good. correct. John Calvin, also a man, Totally depraved. Are we talking about John Calvin the man? Because if we are then I'll tell you straight up I don't care for him. But if we are talking about Calvin's theology explained....then I have to say it's one of the most brilliant biblical explanations about the nature of God, man and salvation I've ever read, aside from the bible itself. Love it.

What does man not being good, have to do with God loving man?

Man was "bad" enough, that God sent His only Son to die for him. And why did He do it, because He loved man so much (John 3:16)

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

I'm not a Calvinists, but I do agree with some of his theological points. Perhaps, Calvin got the "man is no good" theology, from....the Bible?

Romans 3:10-12
New International Version (NIV)
10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.â€[a]

Footnotes:
Romans 3:12 Psalms 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Eccles. 7:20

God saw value in His creation or else why would He send His only Son to die for man. Considering you say, man's no good and therefore, useless God must have seen value in His creation...

 

[Danus]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Man was "bad" enough, that God sent His only Son to die for him. And why did He do it, because He loved man so much (John 3:16)

So man is not bad today? The nature of man is not sin then now because of Christ? We know God loves us. That we know. But why? Why does God love us?

 

[theLords]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

God saw value in His creation or else why would He send His only Son to die for man. Considering you say, man's no good and therefore, useless God must have seen value in His creation...

BEcause of His love. It's 100% a reflection on His pure, lovingkindness and in no way a reflection of our being worthy.

The Bible spells it out very clearly as I've already shown.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

BEcause of His love. It's 100% a reflection on His pure, lovingkindness and in no way a reflection of our being worthy.

The Bible spells it out very clearly as I've already shown.

Yes, God is love, but we obviously have a great worth to God since He sent His only begotten Son to die for our sins.

It's only mankind who was made in His image and designed to be both His bride and His child. We are therefore worthy to be loved in God's estimation.

 

[theLords]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Yes, God is love, but we obviously have a great worth to God since He sent His only begotten Son to die for our sins.

It's only mankind who was made in His image and designed to be both His bride and His child. We are therefore worthy to be loved in God's estimation.

The Bible states otherwise. I'll follow my Bible and not the doctrines of men.

Matthew 10:18

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

 

[reba]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.


Once upon a time in a galaxy far far away The plan of Salvation was laid out before the fall of man.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

The Bible states otherwise. I'll follow my Bible and not the doctrines of men.

Matthew 10:18

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

So you're saying Jesus wasn't good, either?

All men sin and come short of the glory of God, that's for sure.
Coming short is a long way from totally depraved.

So let's actually read the Bible, shall we? One at a time....

What say you of Cornelius?

1There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,

2A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

3He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.

4And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. "

 

[Gazelle]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Yes, God is love, but we obviously have a great worth to God since He sent His only begotten Son to die for our sins.

It's only mankind who was made in His image and designed to be both His bride and His child. We are therefore worthy to be loved in God's estimation.

Totally agree. God loves us. We are worthy (through Christ) of His love. :heart

 

[theLords]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

So you're saying Jesus wasn't good, either?

Jesus is God, which is what He is stating in Matthew.

All men sin and come short of the glory of God, that's for sure.
Coming short is a long way from totally depraved.

That's not what the Bible teaches. The Bible states, quite clearly in fact, that there is no one good but God. Atheists consider themselves good and they admit they have flaws and fall short. Do you think they will dwell in the Kingdom of God?

Examining the cruelest of humankind (Hitler, Stalin, Mao) shows that man is totally depraved. The only reason you and me aren't a Hitler or Stalin is because of the Lord's lovingkindness, mercy, and grace over us. But, every single human being on earth has the potential in them to be a Hitler or Stalin.

So let's actually read the Bible, shall we? One at a time....

What say you of Cornelius?

Passage?

 

[theLords]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Totally agree. God loves us. We are worthy (through Christ) of His love. :heart

Ah! But, we are only worthy, through Christ! On our own...

Spot on.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

Jesus is God, which is what He is stating in Matthew.



That's not what the Bible teaches. The Bible states, quite clearly in fact, that there is no one good but God. Atheists consider themselves good and they admit they have flaws and fall short. Do you think they will dwell in the Kingdom of God?

Examining the cruelest of humankind (Hitler, Stalin, Mao) shows that man is totally depraved. The only reason you and me aren't a Hitler or Stalin is because of the Lord's lovingkindness, mercy, and grace over us. But, every single human being on earth has the potential in them to be a Hitler or Stalin.



Passage?

I gave it...Acts 10:1-4.
Here we see a devout man who feared God....whose prayers and alms are come up for a memorial before God.

There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

A God fearing man of good report...

And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee

Simon was to be called to tell Cornelius how to be saved.

And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

 

[theLords]

Re: When a Calvinist tells the unsaved about Christ, does he consider if they are ele

I gave it...Acts 10:1-4.
Here we see a devout man who feared God....whose prayers and alms are come up for a memorial before God.

There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

A God fearing man of good report...

And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee

Simon was to be called to tell Cornelius how to be saved.

And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

God-fearing man, clearly stands out here. This is hardly an example to make your point. Cornelius was good because of God, because he was a God-fearing man.