When Do Believers Receive Power?

[Jim Parker]

Those are words of men not of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ... that's how the apostasy began with the doctrines of men...

So if it isn't in the Bible, it's apostasy?
You're not in the Bible. There is no "Turnorburn" mentioned.
Neither is "Trinity" in the Bible. Is that also apostasy?
If you have something to say, please say it.

 

[jasonc]

i looked up "Justin martyr where we get the name from." and couldn't find it, where did you find it?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/martyr

his last name!

its means witness. well isn't that what he was?

 

[Jim Parker]

i looked up "Justin martyr where we get the name from." and couldn't find it, where did you find it?

(sigh)
Just Google, "Justin Martyr."

 

[Jim Parker]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/martyr
his last name!
its means witness. well isn't that what he was?

He was the first apologist of the Church.
He was both a witness and a martyr.

 

[jasonc]

(sigh)
Just Google, "Justin Martyr."

I'm not a catholic, greek or Russian orthodox.when you brought up the eucharist,it wasn't even an issue to me.some want look for things that aren't there.you gave context which has nought to do with the modern way the rcc does it.

 

[jasonc]

He was the first apologist of the Church.
He was both a witness and a martyr.

True.I have read parts of his works

 

[Jim Parker]

I'm not a catholic, greek or Russian orthodox.when you brought up the eucharist,it wasn't even an issue to me.some want look for things that aren't there.you gave context which has nought to do with the modern way the rcc does it.

How do the two differ?
Actually, never mind. If we want to discuss it, we have to do it one-on-one and not in this thread.

 

[turnorburn]

So if it isn't in the Bible, it's apostasy?
You're not in the Bible. There is no "Turnorburn" mentioned.
Neither is "Trinity" in the Bible. Is that also apostasy?
If you have something to say, please say it.

I'd be happy to give you a list.. a long list.. but its not allowed.. Oh and you might want to apologize to ChristDependant for accusing him of committing the unpardonable sin.. " I'm dismayed to see the ease and facility with which people so arrogantly blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

 

[turnorburn]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/martyr

his last name!

its means witness. well isn't that what he was?

i know all to well what Martyrs are Jason..

 

[Jim Parker]

I'd be happy to give you a list.. a long list.. but its not allowed..

Then why bring it up? Just to make sure that everyone knows how you detest papists?

Oh and you might want to apologize to ChristDependant for accusing him of committing the unpardonable sin.. " I'm dismayed to see the ease and facility with which people so arrogantly blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

Or not. It seems to me that disparaging one of the Holy Spirit's gifts would qualify as blasphemy.
You may see it differently.

 

[jasonc]

i know all to well what Martyrs are Jason..

The etymology isn't a coincidence with man Justin martyr.

 

[WIP]

 

[smaller]

It's largely a question of "apprehended" and still pressing to be so, after salvation:

Philippians 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Paul sought for the apprehension of his own body, while he was yet alive in the flesh.

That goal should always remain in the crosshairs of everyone who "walks" in the Spirit.

footnote: The change that Paul sought for his own vile body was not in his power, but Christ's Own Power. That quest was NOT achieved by Paul while he was in the vile body. But it was what he continually had in mind and heart. As should we. That IS what we "watch" for.

Hebrews 10:25
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

 

[for_his_glory]

i looked up "Justin martyr where we get the name from." and couldn't find it, where did you find it?

I don't have Foxes, but I do have Martyrs Mirror by Thieleman J. Van Bright that list every martyr there was up to the year 1660 and Justin Martyr is not listed and here is the reason why.
Justin Martyr was a pagan reared in a Jewish environment, Justin studied Stoic, Platonic, and other pagan philosophies and then became a Christian in 132 teaching Christian philosophy mixed with Greek philosophy as he wandered from place to place proclaiming his Christian philosophy trying to convert educated pagans. It was the Roman perfect that condemned him to death for being subversive, not as a martyr for he was never called of God to preach to the nations.

Justin's statements in his First Apology are some of the earliest Christian expressions on the Eucharist.

"And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist] ... For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh."

Even in the teaching of the Eucharist that the Roman Catholic Church practices in this way was taught wrong. For instance the word of God made flesh, not flesh being made by the word of God, John 1:1-14. Flesh and blood have nothing to do with being Spiritually born again as flesh is an hostile enemy against the Spirit and that is why we crucify this flesh daily putting it to death as we live for Christ, John 3:6; Romans 8:7; Ephesians 2:15;

 

[for_his_glory]

sorry reba, I didn't see this before I posted, my bad

 

[for_his_glory]

We are born again at the moment of repentance and confession of faith we make unto Christ Jesus as we make confession with out mouth and believe in our heart that who he said he was and came to do is true, John 3:1-6; Romans 10:9,10.

We also at the same moment are empowered with the Holy Spirit that is our comforter and teacher as only the Holy Spirit can teach us all truth of Gods word and will bring those things taught of Christ back to our remembrance for the purpose of Gods ministry to the world as we are His servants, John 14:26.

 

[Jim Parker]

It's largely a question of "apprehended" and still pressing to be so, after salvation:

Philippians 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Paul sought for the apprehension of his own body, while he was yet alive in the flesh.
That goal should always remain in the crosshairs of everyone who "walks" in the Spirit.

footnote: The change that Paul sought for his own vile body was not in his power, but Christ's Own Power. That quest was NOT achieved by Paul while he was in the vile body. But it was what he continually had in mind and heart. As should we. That IS what we "watch" for.

[Deleted unnecessary and potentially inflammatory opinion. WIP] he had already "apprehended" his own body; it had not escaped and its whereabouts were never unknown.

[More of the same.]

Phl 3:8-12 (RSV) Indeed I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as refuse, in order (A) that I may gain Christ 9 and (B) be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own, based on law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith; 10 that I may (C) know him and the power of his resurrection, and may (D) share his sufferings, (E) becoming like him in his death, 11 that if possible (F) I may attain the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

What did Paul desire to "apprehend"?
(A) gain Christ
(B) be found in him,
(C) know him and the power of his resurrection,
(D) share his sufferings,
(E) becoming like him in his death
(F) attain the resurrection from the dead.
Were these things primarily about Paul's "BODY"?
Q: What was his "bottom line"?
A: the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord
THAT is was what Paul desired to apprehend.
THAT is what he strove for. (NOT a "new body")

Phl 3:13-14 (RSV) Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own; but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
What is that "prize"?
A "new body"?
Or an eternity in intimate union with God through Jesus Christ as the bride of Christ?

[More opinion.]

iakov the fool

 

[smaller]

[Deleted unnecessary and potentially inflammatory opinion. WIP] he had already "apprehended" his own body; it had not escaped and its whereabouts were never unknown.

Jesus Body was glorified. I didn't even bring the subject up.

However, this remains to be completed:

Philippians 3:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

About done with this one and moving on. Apparently it hit a pet doctrinal nerve of undefined sorts.

 

[Jim Parker]

When do believer receive power?

Another answer: Whenever they need it. :wink

iakov the fool

 

[Butch5]

That reference has nothing to do about needing to receive power again and again supernaturally. It is Paul recognizing His strength in him to carry him through his ordeal.



All believers have received this power at their salvation.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Believers think more highly of themselves than they ought to think when they promote other believers to seek this same secondary experience, thus preaching another gospel & another spirit to receive. There is no way to avoid exalting himself over other believers for having only one drink of the One Spirit when he had "two" drinks.

And strangely enough, others claim having three drinks... then another five drinks.. then pretty soon the one having one drink will say, I have heard enough. There is no other drink of the One Spirit because that other drink cannot be of Him at all.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

There is no way a person cannot elevate himself in the eyes of another when he claims to have another drink of the One Spirit when the other had only one drink.

The word translated "power" in John 1:12 is mistranslated in the KJV. The Greek word is "exousia" and means authority, not power. Those Jews were given authority to become children of God