When does regeneration start?

[Dave...]

I put this topic in the reformed forum for a reason. While it could be an interesting topic on any forum, by choosing this forum I was hoping for a reformed discussion on this topic. Feel free to start the same thread on in the theology forum and take it in another redirection if you like. It will no doubt go back to mans sinful nature and we have threads going for that now. Thank you.

Is there a general regeneration for everyone first? Is the Holy Spirit holding back evil until the end times have anything to do with regeneration? Is there anything pictured in the OT relationship with the Holy Spirit compared to the NT relationship with the Holy Spirit, that would help? The Apostles, first being OT believers, were bumbling stumbling scaredy cats before they were given the promise of the Father, the NT indwelling of the Holy Spirit. But before that, they did have enough regeneration (OT regeneration) to have faith. Does this picture a NT pre faith regeneration?

One thing most agree with, is that God must move first before a person can come to faith. And our relationship with the Holy Spirit as believers is much more than that, as evidenced, I believe, in the relationship of believers and the Holy Spirit from the OT to the NT.

Dave

 

[Whatever]

The Bible doesn't really give us such a encyclopedic understand of the subject. It has to be assumed.

This is from Monergism:

A simple “ordo salutis” is as follows: the first event that had to take place for us to be saved is God's unconditional love and election of us in eternity past. Then, God sent us an outward call at some point in our lives, or in other words, he brought the message of the gospel across our paths, either through the reading or the hearing of the word. Next, he gave an inward call, through the prompting of the Holy Spirit, which regenerated, or brought to life our previously dead hearts. Because of this regeneration, we experienced conversion, that is, repentance from our sin and faith in Christ. Then, in consequence of our faith, we are justified, that is, God legally declares us righteous, by imputing or reckoning Jesus' perfect righteousness to our own account. At the same time, God adopts us, making us his children and the brothers and sisters of Christ; and he also unites us with Christ, so that henceforth we are in him. Beginning at that point, and on throughout our lifetime, God sanctifies us, or makes us holy, changing us into his likeness. Throughout this time, God is also preserving us, causing us to persevere in the faith, so that we do not finally fall away. Then, at death, we enter an intermediate state, where we are in the presence of the Lord, but without our physical bodies. And finally comes glorification, when our bodies will be resurrected and changed so that they will no longer decay, and we will inherit the new heavens and new earth, where we will live in the presence of our Immanuel for all eternity.

 

[Whatever]

This is from the Westminster Confession of Faith.

10.1. All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, he is pleased, in his appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and, by his almighty power, determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ: yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.

11.1. Those whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth: not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ’s sake alone; nor by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them, they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness, by faith; which faith they have not of themselves, it is the gift of God.

12.1. All those that are justified, God vouchsafeth, in and for his only Son Jesus Christ, to make partakers of the grace of adoption, by which they are taken into the number, and enjoy the liberties and privileges of the children of God, have his name put upon them, receive the Spirit of adoption, have access to the throne of grace with boldness, are enabled to cry, Abba, Father, are pitied, protected, provided for, and chastened by him, as by a father: yet never cast off, but sealed to the day of redemption; and inherit the promises, as heirs of everlasting salvation.

13.1. They, who are once effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart, and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ’s death and resurrection, by his Word and Spirit dwelling in them: the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified; and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.

 

[Whatever]

This article is dated December 11, 2024 so it is now.

Explore the Ordo Salutis in Reformed Theology, its historical roots, key components, and ongoing theological debates. Discover its practical implications.

The Ordo Salutis in Reformed Theology: Components and Debates

Explore the Ordo Salutis in Reformed Theology, its historical roots, key components, and ongoing theological debates. Discover its practical implications.

divinenarratives.org

 

[electedbyHim]

Yep, there are a lot of views on Ordos Salutis.

 

[Dave...]

I should have proof read the OP. sorry.

In a nut shell, what many people believe is that we're actually born again before we come to faith. That the result of being born again, is actually the cause of it. That's basically what they're saying. That always seemed to me like a lazy answer to a deeper question. As much as I can tell, there are some things with regards to regeneration that only happen as a result of being born again, that is, beyond the legality of it. Some kind of pre-faith regeneration seems obvious in scripture. I always wondered if the OT faith, which was lacking, pictured this pre faith regeneration. The Holy Spirit was at work in the OT, but that relationship with man and the Holy Spirit was different in a lot of ways. As evidenced by the Apostles from OT indwelling to NT Indwelling.

I always wanted to dig into this and challenge the consensus thoughts and views as I seen them. Jesus is the "Author and Finisher of our faith". This speaks of a pre-faith regeneration. "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day".

Dave