jasonc
Member
Or that no man can demand God save him because of His ability to do enough Good works .
One lump of leaven ..
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Ordo Salutis - The Order of Salvation
- Thread starter electedbyhim
- Start date
One lump of leaven ..
electedbyhim
You even gave FF a like.
And this will answer your question to me as to why I don't like to post in Calvinism.
Perhaps we should leave the reformed to speak among themselves?
Ridicule gets tiring and the Calvinism Forum will never be overseen correctly, requiring love and respect toward each other.
Let this thread just die.....
For JLB
Iconoclast
Member
The men who wrote these charts actually understand and teach the bible.You do not like that fact.
Iconoclast
Member
The forum is overseen just fine.
Bright flame does not have to hide behind subjective you rules as he speaks scripture accurately.
electedbyhim
Member
What is the issue?
electedbyhim
Member
If someone says what I believe is heretical, I expect them to prove that to me.
JLB will not prove I am heretical, but he sure throws that hateful label around.
It's not a hateful label.
A heresy is not in keeping with accepted christian theology.
Reformed theology is not in keeping with accepted christian theology.
No other denomination agrees with the reformed. They stand alone. Why is that?
The reformed theology came about fifteen hundred years after Jesus.
AFTER the reformation , denominations abandoned that theology because it goes against everything the bible teaches.
The reformers stand alone because what they teach is heretical.
Heretical simply means not in agreement with christianity. It's not a bad word.
jasonc
Member
Reformed Like churches that predate martin Luther .I live near two or more
Primitive Baptist churches
Missionary Baptist churches
These don't have musicians ,practice infant baptism .they don't called themselves protestant .
Fort caroline ,the French hugeonots and I believe the anabaptists as well are underground groups as the above that didn't but into the Catholic idea and also came out into open when the Pope lost control of France etc all .
Why be sarcastic?
Have YOU become perfect yet?
Or do you actually know what is meant by Jesus' words?
Why do you not accept all of His words?
Jesus said to repent for the Kingdom of God is near.
When God gives a command, IT IS IMPLIED that a person can obey it.
If you really do not believer so, please post some commands Jesus left us with that are impossible to obey.
Calvinist theology teaches that a person must be born again in order to be born again.
It teaches that a person must be saved by God because he is UNABLE to come to God on his own.
The bible is full of commands to come to God.
Would YOU tell a baby to climb the stairs?
Would YOU give a command to your child that would be impossible for him to keep?
Then why would God...who created y ou and knows your limits?
Here is a page full:
Jesus was only really talking to His sheep.
John 8:31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.
Jesus didn't say things like this to those who didn't believe Him.
Joh 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
Joh 8:43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.
Joh 8:47 He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."
The default worldview of everybody is naturally that they have unfettered free will and that even God cannot interfere with a man's free will. By cannot, I mean cannot morally interfere. He is a monster if He chooses some to be saved and not others.
So when people come to passages like the above, they will not accept that they really mean what they sound like. There must be some other explanation, so they look for "whosoever will's" and things like "commands to believe" as a escape to wipe away their fears that Calvinists just might be right.
I have heard countless people say that they could never worship a God that saves some He chooses and lets millions be born just to die and spend eternity in Hell. So, they, just like Biden and the Democrats in regards to Trump, must demonize anybody who believe this.
I simply one day decided to let the chips fall where they may and take God at His Word even if everybody else I know says that this God is a monster.
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
Denomination: A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name, usually organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy.
No denomination agrees with a different denomination by definition. You're statement has no intrinsic value.
...or using your logic ... if you looked at all of Wondering's theological understandings and compared them to the understandings of others there will always be differences ... therefore Wondering is left wondering as she stands alone.
Reformed theology goes back to the bible because the R.C. church subverted it. They stand on Sola Scriptura whereas many denominations add to the bible.
Premise 1: The bible teaches Jesus is God
Premise 2: Reformed theology teaches that Jesus is God
Premise 3: GodsGrace/Wondering states everything Reformed theology teaches is contrary to the Bible.
Conclusion: GodsGrace/Wondering does not believe Jesus is God ... or she is confused and when confronted with her statement would like to rephrase it .... (Aside: I actually believe Wondering believes Jesus is God, she just didn't think through what she was saying again)
Wondering/Godsgrace does not agree with reform theology to a degree and to that degree she is heretical.
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
Mark 12:30 “you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.” Yeah, like who do you know that has obey this command
John 15:12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you
Romans 8:7-8 Because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
1 Corinthians 15:34 “Awake to righteousness and sin not”.
2 Corinthians 10:5 and take every thought captive to obey Christ
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God
... there's a lot more .... you need to study the subject more extensively before making statements
electedbyhim
Member
I understand all that.
I have also asked to show what I believe is heretical. I have posted many scriptures on Total Depravity and no one has disputed.
Speaking in tongues, miracales, modern day prophets, praying the rosary, praying to mary is not accepted in Christian Theology. These things can be proven from Scripture as well as testing the spirits when done in person to be false doctrines.
electedbyhim
Member
I just thought of something I ran into in a Sunday School class a long time ago. This is from Peter not Jesus.
2Pe 1:5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge,
2Pe 1:6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness,
2Pe 1:7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
And then he says:
2Pe 1:10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;
And a lady in the class said "well, I certainly don't know of anybody who never stumbles." as if implying that it is impossible. I said in my head "this is a if/then proposition. If you don't know anybody who never stumbles, it is because you don't know anybody who "does these things." I don't know anybody who does either. Even born again Christians cannot consistently "do those things."
Iconoclast
Member
Yes indeed.Your post reflects what all of us understand.What was posted earlier was a ludicrous misunderstanding of redemptive history.A person could not be more off course than that foolish post denying the truths of Scripture reclaimed by the Reformed men, then and now.
So you don't follow Jesus' commands to obey Him?
John 3:36
36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 14:15
15If you love Me you will keep my commandments.
Everyone on this site knows what a denomination is.
It has intrinsic value in what I stated.
No other denomination agrees with the reformed.
All denominations have an intrinsic value if they agree with scripture.
Reformed theology disagrees with BASIC biblical values.....
no other denomination can agree with the values of God that the reformed expouse.
This should tell you something.
Only here in Calvinism can you state the above and not be banned by breaking TOS rules.
What you state is nonsense and misrepresents my beliefs.
But I guess being friendly with an overseer that does not do his job is a plus for you.
I agree with mainline Christianity.
It is those who do NOT agree with mainline Christianity that are heretics.
And, apparently, don't even care.
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
No one does perfectly. If you read your Bible this is apparent.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
As often the case, your response was a non-sequitur.
- Someone said God doesn't give commands we can't obey.
- I respond with 6ish verses to the contrary.
- Then you go on a tangent with "So you don't follow Jesus' commands to obey Him?"
You seem to have a habit of making obtuse statements that I need to clarify like:
It is obvious your statement is unfounded/obtuse.
Yes, they probably do but your previous statement showed that you don't know how to properly use the word as I pointed out. You said
It is obvious that every denomination stands alone and yet you imply Reform Theology only stands alone whereas all denominations stand alone from other denominations ... that's why their called "denominations'. Your statement is valueless.
LOL ... I see you still don't get it.
It tells me you argumentation is faulty .... "BASIC biblical values" is an undefined, obtuse statement.
You keep making generalizations with not scripture to back you up. I'll help you out. Try something like... Reformed Theology said "X" and this contradicts scripture.
Aside: What denomination do you belong too. My guess is that you won't answer .... I've seen you post sympathetically in the Roman Catholic section.
Everything I said was true. I laid it out with a syllogism to make it easy to be understood.
I repeat:
Premise 1: The bible teaches Jesus is God
Premise 2: Reformed theology teaches that Jesus is God
Premise 3: GodsGrace/Wondering states everything Reformed theology teaches is contrary to the Bible.
Conclusion: GodsGrace/Wondering does not believe Jesus is God ... or she is confused and when confronted with her statement would like to rephrase it .... (Aside: I actually believe Wondering believes Jesus is God, she just didn't think through what she was saying again)
Which premise is false? If all the premises are true then why does the Conclusion not follow? Simple logic. Why would TOS rules be in conflict with truthful ideas?
The problem is that you are making unsubstantiated statements. You need to think before you say things like: "everything Reformed theology teaches is contrary to the Bible'. The Calvinism section lets one speak his understanding of truth ... that's probably why this safe haven doesn't ban you for trolling as when you said things like "everything Reformed theology teaches is contrary to the Bible".